Scottish Independence

[Kingfisher]

The SNP position regarding Sterling, the EU, the Monarchy et al. can be summarised thus: We want to have our cake, eat our cake, have you pay for our cake, then eat a big chunk of your cake. If you don't agree then you're all bullying, blustering wee Eenglish b'stards and we're calling in Mel Gibson.

Any Scot who votes for that shower of shoite deserves exactly what they get, imho.

At least the shower of shoite they have will be representative, unlike the Westminster shower of shoite who have no mandate in Scotland to **** everything up there.

[Awol]

 

The SNP position regarding Sterling, the EU, the Monarchy et al. can be summarised thus: We want to have our cake, eat our cake, have you pay for our cake, then eat a big chunk of your cake. If you don't agree then you're all bullying, blustering wee Eenglish b'stards and we're calling in Mel Gibson.

Any Scot who votes for that shower of shoite deserves exactly what they get, imho.

At least the shower of shoite they have will be representative, unlike the Westminster shower of shoite who have no mandate in Scotland to **** everything up there.

 

Yeah they do. The UK votes for a UK government, Scotland have their own Parliament and the Welsh and Norn Irish have Assemblies. What does England have? All of the above voting on matters that only affect England.  Run that "representative" line past me again? 

 

Anyway, do you think it's right for remainder of the UK to underwrite an independent Scotland, or are you deliberately misframing the debate to create a diversion?

[bickster]

I think, to be fair, most Scots realise that a vote for independence is not the same as a vote for the SNP. If they end up breaking away the SNP will be a fringe party at best.

I meant in the context of the referendum but I agree they'll be a fringe party, if they succeed in destroying not just the Union but Scottish prosperity as well. 

 

The idea that the remainder of the UK is going to underwrite the government spending, economy and banking sector of a foreign country through currency union is ludicrous beyond belief.  The fact that this is the central policy of the SNP for the future economic prosperity of Scotland simply underlines what a bunch of deluded dog fondlers they really are.

Well its not even just that, they also want to be in the EU, which they can't even enter talks about until they gain independence and one of the pre-requisites for any country now joining the EU is to be part of the Euro. Anyone noticed a clear brain fart by the SNP there?

From what I've gathered from various Pro independence (read SNP) bods today is the ludicrous idea that the UK and the EU will have no option but to allow what the SNP want. They really do come across as totally deluded, they believe what they are saying but when pushed on questions like "don't you think the people of the UK should have a say in whether they want to be part of a monetary union with Scotland" they completely don't answer the question and say its for the UK government to decide what is in their best interests and this is in their best interests. The answers to the EU questions were even better impressions of emu's burying their heads in the sand.

If Monty Python did politics, this would be it!

[bickster]

In the event of a Scottish vote for independence, we could see millions of EU citizens stripped of their citizenship against their own will.I'm not sure how that will sit in the world of human rights.

They will have voted for it

I get that. But if it were a 60/40 majority, then around 3 million wouldn't have voted for it.

If a 60/40 majority is taken as a yes result.

Yes but that is how democracy works. You have a vote, the winner is the one with the most votes.

If we extended that argument to the UK parliament then we'd have had coalition politics in every govt since the war bar one iirc. Democracy will always disenfranchise someone

[Kingfisher]

The SNP position regarding Sterling, the EU, the Monarchy et al. can be summarised thus: We want to have our cake, eat our cake, have you pay for our cake, then eat a big chunk of your cake. If you don't agree then you're all bullying, blustering wee Eenglish b'stards and we're calling in Mel Gibson.

Any Scot who votes for that shower of shoite deserves exactly what they get, imho.

At least the shower of shoite they have will be representative, unlike the Westminster shower of shoite who have no mandate in Scotland to **** everything up there.

Yeah they do. The UK votes for a UK government, Scotland have their own Parliament and the Welsh and Norn Irish have Assemblies. What does England have? All of the above voting on matters that only affect England. Run that "representative" line past me again?

Anyway, do you think it's right for remainder of the UK to underwrite an independent Scotland, or are you deliberately misframing the debate to create a diversion?

Westminster have control over;

Defence

UK Foreign Policy

Social Security

Financial & Economic Matters

Employment

Constitutional matters

Immigration & Nationality

Monetary System

Common Markets

Some transport

Data Protection

Energy

Gambling

Medical Ethics

Equal Opportunities

If Scotland want to take those powers away from Westminster I can hardly blame them.

[Awol]

 

If Monty Python did politics, this would be it!

 

'Zackly this.

 

Successive governments have, imo, played up to this narcissistic SNP narrative that Scotland are equal members in the Union. They ain't, with Scotland accounting for about 8.4% of population and 8.7% of GDP. 

 

Significant? Yes. Able to dictate to the club they are proposing to leave what the club rules will be after they've gone? Pull the other one.

 

For purely sentimental reasons I'd like the Union to continue, however not at any price. The day after an "aye" vote for independence I'd expect the UK gov to get the best possible deal for the rest of us as they would if dealing with say, Ecuador.

[Awol]

 

 

 

The SNP position regarding Sterling, the EU, the Monarchy et al. can be summarised thus: We want to have our cake, eat our cake, have you pay for our cake, then eat a big chunk of your cake. If you don't agree then you're all bullying, blustering wee Eenglish b'stards and we're calling in Mel Gibson.

Any Scot who votes for that shower of shoite deserves exactly what they get, imho.

At least the shower of shoite they have will be representative, unlike the Westminster shower of shoite who have no mandate in Scotland to **** everything up there.

Yeah they do. The UK votes for a UK government, Scotland have their own Parliament and the Welsh and Norn Irish have Assemblies. What does England have? All of the above voting on matters that only affect England. Run that "representative" line past me again?

Anyway, do you think it's right for remainder of the UK to underwrite an independent Scotland, or are you deliberately misframing the debate to create a diversion?

Westminster have control over;

Defence

UK Foreign Policy

Social Security

Financial & Economic Matters

Employment

Constitutional matters

Immigration & Nationality

Monetary System

Common Markets

Some transport

Data Protection

Energy

Gambling

Medical Ethics

Equal Opportunities

If Scotland want to take those powers away from Westminster I can hardly blame them.

 

I repeat: do you think it's right for remainder of the UK to underwrite an independent Scotland, or are you deliberately misframing the debate to create a diversion?

[bickster]

The SNP position regarding Sterling, the EU, the Monarchy et al. can be summarised thus: We want to have our cake, eat our cake, have you pay for our cake, then eat a big chunk of your cake. If you don't agree then you're all bullying, blustering wee Eenglish b'stards and we're calling in Mel Gibson.

Any Scot who votes for that shower of shoite deserves exactly what they get, imho.

At least the shower of shoite they have will be representative, unlike the Westminster shower of shoite who have no mandate in Scotland to **** everything up there.

Yeah they do. The UK votes for a UK government, Scotland have their own Parliament and the Welsh and Norn Irish have Assemblies. What does England have? All of the above voting on matters that only affect England. Run that "representative" line past me again?

Anyway, do you think it's right for remainder of the UK to underwrite an independent Scotland, or are you deliberately misframing the debate to create a diversion?

Westminster have control over;

Defence

UK Foreign Policy

Social Security

Financial & Economic Matters

Employment

Constitutional matters

Immigration & Nationality

Monetary System

Common Markets

Some transport

Data Protection

Energy

Gambling

Medical Ethics

Equal Opportunities

If Scotland want to take those powers away from Westminster I can hardly blame them.

Clearly they don't want to take that one away

[Kingfisher]

The SNP position regarding Sterling, the EU, the Monarchy et al. can be summarised thus: We want to have our cake, eat our cake, have you pay for our cake, then eat a big chunk of your cake. If you don't agree then you're all bullying, blustering wee Eenglish b'stards and we're calling in Mel Gibson.

Any Scot who votes for that shower of shoite deserves exactly what they get, imho.

At least the shower of shoite they have will be representative, unlike the Westminster shower of shoite who have no mandate in Scotland to **** everything up there.

Yeah they do. The UK votes for a UK government, Scotland have their own Parliament and the Welsh and Norn Irish have Assemblies. What does England have? All of the above voting on matters that only affect England. Run that "representative" line past me again?

Anyway, do you think it's right for remainder of the UK to underwrite an independent Scotland, or are you deliberately misframing the debate to create a diversion?

Westminster have control over;

Defence

UK Foreign Policy

Social Security

Financial & Economic Matters

Employment

Constitutional matters

Immigration & Nationality

Monetary System

Common Markets

Some transport

Data Protection

Energy

Gambling

Medical Ethics

Equal Opportunities

If Scotland want to take those powers away from Westminster I can hardly blame them.

I repeat: do you think it's right for remainder of the UK to underwrite an independent Scotland, or are you deliberately misframing the debate to create a diversion?

If Scotland want to have their cake and eat it, if they get it, fair play! Good on them. Hopefully the rest of the UK public will realise that the crooks in Westminster have fractured the UK and Bicks' revolution happens.

[jon_c]

Most of my family are from Scotland the consensus seems to be that the Scottish might vote for independence if Alex Salmond wasn't such a fanny. As it stands there is no chance.

[bickster]

If Scotland want to have their cake and eat it, if they get it, fair play! Good on them. Hopefully the rest of the UK public will realise that the crooks in Westminster have fractured the UK and Bicks' revolution happens.

If Scotland do vote for independence the potential for revolution gets stronger imo

[snowychap]

From what I've gathered from various Pro independence (read SNP) bods today is the ludicrous idea that the UK and the EU will have no option but to allow what the SNP want.

I agree with you that it's a pretty ludicrous position from them; I'm not sure that the UK government's position (of other parties, as immaterial as it may be) isn't halfway to being as ludicrous, though.

One would have thought that if the Scots do vote in favour of independence then it will be a long old chat around a negotiating table for the best way to have an (as) orderly (as posible) 'breaking away', surely? The way the debate is being talked about by the Westminster parties is that a virtual Hadrian's wall would be put up the morning after any yes vote.

I don't think there will be a yes vote but it would be rather refreshing if they were to discuss the aftermath of any vote in terms of how the future would be settled rather than:

"We'll keep the pound."

"Get your grubby paws off our pound."

[Danwichmann]

If Scotland want to have their cake and eat it, if they get it, fair play! Good on them. Hopefully the rest of the UK public will realise that the crooks in Westminster have fractured the UK and Bicks' revolution happens.

If Scotland do vote for independence the potential for revolution gets stronger imo

How so? Surely removing a block of people who don't vote tory lowers the potential for revolution?

[Kingfisher]

If Scotland want to have their cake and eat it, if they get it, fair play! Good on them. Hopefully the rest of the UK public will realise that the crooks in Westminster have fractured the UK and Bicks' revolution happens.

If Scotland do vote for independence the potential for revolution gets stronger imo

I see it as a kind of a revolution in Scotland. If the Scottish people vote to sever the ties I can't think of a bigger vote of no confidence in our political system. It will reflect completely disenfranchised population saying enough is enough. It might turn out well for them, it might not, but they're willing to take the jump because they're fed up with the status quo.

[Awol]

I don't think there will be a yes vote but it would be rather refreshing if they were to discuss the aftermath of any vote in terms of how the future would be settled rather than:

"We'll keep the pound."

"Get your grubby paws off our pound."

 

They could keep the Pound, in the same way various tinpot countries use the $. What they can't have is a currency union that makes the UK (taxpayers) liable for whatever financial scrapes a new iScotland gets itself into.  The UK Gov position is not only sensible and prudent, it is the only rational position they could take - which is why Osborne/Balls/Alexander are all singing from the same hymn sheet.   

[bickster]

If Scotland want to have their cake and eat it, if they get it, fair play! Good on them. Hopefully the rest of the UK public will realise that the crooks in Westminster have fractured the UK and Bicks' revolution happens.

If Scotland do vote for independence the potential for revolution gets stronger imo

I see it as a kind of a revolution in Scotland. If the Scottish people vote to sever the ties I can't think of a bigger vote of no confidence in our political system. It will reflect completely disenfranchised population saying enough is enough. It might turn out well for them, it might not, but they're willing to take the jump because they're fed up with the status quo.

Sorry but theres no way its a revolution of any kind, its nationalism, it really wouldn't matter who was in power in the UK or if the whole system changed, the 25% of the Scots that genuinely hate the English and are blinded to all reason would still be banging the same drum.

[Danwichmann]

 

 

I think, to be fair, most Scots realise that a vote for independence is not the same as a vote for the SNP. If they end up breaking away the SNP will be a fringe party at best.

I meant in the context of the referendum but I agree they'll be a fringe party, if they succeed in destroying not just the Union but Scottish prosperity as well. 

 

The idea that the remainder of the UK is going to underwrite the government spending, economy and banking sector of a foreign country through currency union is ludicrous beyond belief.  The fact that this is the central policy of the SNP for the future economic prosperity of Scotland simply underlines what a bunch of deluded dog fondlers they really are.

 

Well its not even just that, they also want to be in the EU, which they can't even enter talks about until they gain independence and one of the pre-requisites for any country now joining the EU is to be part of the Euro. Anyone noticed a clear brain fart by the SNP there?

From what I've gathered from various Pro independence (read SNP) bods today is the ludicrous idea that the UK and the EU will have no option but to allow what the SNP want. They really do come across as totally deluded, they believe what they are saying but when pushed on questions like "don't you think the people of the UK should have a say in whether they want to be part of a monetary union with Scotland" they completely don't answer the question and say its for the UK government to decide what is in their best interests and this is in their best interests. The answers to the EU questions were even better impressions of emu's burying their heads in the sand.

If Monty Python did politics, this would be it!

 

 

But remaining in the EU is not guaranteed even if Scotland votes no. It would be really messed up if Scotland stayed in the UK because of fears about not being allowed to join the EU, then the entire UK voted to leave.

 

Bottom line, Scotland is perfectly entitled to make it's own choice, but it should be an informed choice and currently they have no answers on most of bit issues should they vote yes. 

[bickster]

If Scotland want to have their cake and eat it, if they get it, fair play! Good on them. Hopefully the rest of the UK public will realise that the crooks in Westminster have fractured the UK and Bicks' revolution happens.

If Scotland do vote for independence the potential for revolution gets stronger imo

How so? Surely removing a block of people who don't vote tory lowers the potential for revolution?

Tories win more and more elections, carry out more ideological policies, people become more disenfranchised than ever…. Booom!

[Danwichmann]

 

 

 

If Scotland want to have their cake and eat it, if they get it, fair play! Good on them. Hopefully the rest of the UK public will realise that the crooks in Westminster have fractured the UK and Bicks' revolution happens.

If Scotland do vote for independence the potential for revolution gets stronger imo

 

How so? Surely removing a block of people who don't vote tory lowers the potential for revolution?

 

Tories win more and more elections, carry out more ideological policies, people become more disenfranchised than ever…. Booom!

 

 

We can but hope!

[snowychap]

What they can't have is a currency union that makes the UK (taxpayers) liable for whatever financial scrapes a new iScotland gets itself into.

I think that's a bit of a red herring, really - as much at least as the counter threat from the SNP (Salmond himself?) about liabilities for existing sterling debt.

How much of what is being trotted out by Salmond and Sturgeon on the one hand and Osborne, Carney et al. on the other is simply electioneering (and positioning for any post election negotiations) or is laying out 'the facts'? I fear that it very little of the latter, unfortunately.