The_Rev Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Wasnt that a lot to do with the high oil surplus last year? When the price goes down or the oil dries up (which will almost certainly happen in our lifetimes) then it could be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 it would be interesting to see how much the UK invest in Scotland and whether after a break up that Westminster could announce a drop in income tax as a result of not funding Scotland anymore. that's one way of exiting a recession. We don't have to fund scotland anymore so as a result VAT is down to 17.5% again and fuel duty is down 5p a litre. welcome to the BOOM! Scotland contributed 9.4% of the UK's tax take last year and only took back 9.3%. Scotland is funding the UK! what do those figures include? does that include infastructure such as renewable energy projects designed for the whole of the UK just so happens to be setup there? again going forward does that include any infastructure projects in the pipeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have little doubt Scotland would be fine as an independent country. Look at Norway or Denmark which have similar resources and populations. It's untangling the Union that would be the major problem. It would be so complex and costly to Scotland it might make the whole thing untenable. If that can all be sorted out, in the long-term Scotland would be just fine on its own. Absolutley no reason why it can't be. An interesting thing I've noticed on all the newspaper message boards (and to a certain extent on here) is the level of anti-Scottish sentiment this has brought bubbling to the surface this week. A lot of name calling and abuse from our southern cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Wasnt that a lot to do with the high oil surplus last year? When the price goes down or the oil dries up (which will almost certainly happen in our lifetimes) then it could be a problem. Yeah, the oil industry up there means they are net contributors to the UK at the moment. It will be interesting to see what happens if any more deep sea oil deposits are found like the massive one recently discovered off the coast of Norway. That would put a finer point on discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2012 I was thinking of starting a thread about referendums (referenda if you prefer), or putting something in the bollitics thread, but this seems a good a place as any. In a nutshell, I'm mostly agin 'em. The received wisdom would seem to be "We can leave the minor stuff to Westminster, but if it's something important, we should put it to a referendum". My opinion is exactly the opposite. If it's something emotive, but effectively trivial - (say) changing the flag, or the national anthem - by all means consult the great unwashed. But something as complex as joining/leaving the EU, changing the currency, etc., should in my opinion be left to the professionals. Christ, I'm fairly well educated and I take a reasonable interest in these things, but it's WAY too big a subject for me (or the vast majority of the public) to grasp well enough to make that sort of decision. It would be a massive cop-out by the people we pay to manage the country and its economy, and would probably be decided by emotion, stoked up by the tabloid press. Wrong, wrong, wrong. If a party has a stance on such an issue, they should make part of their manifesto. If they get voted in, they can just get on with it, whether we like it or not - they already have a mandate. Edited for typos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2012 I was thinking of starting a thread about referendums (referenda if you prefer), or putting something in the bollitics thread, but this seems a good a place as any. In a nutshell, I'm mostly agin 'em. The received wisdom would seem to be "We can leave the minor stuff to Westminster, but if it's something important, we should put it to a referendum". My opinion is exactly the opposite. If it's something emotive, but effectively trivial - (say) changing the flag, or the national anthem - by all means consult the great unwashed. But something as complex as joining/leaving the EU, changing the currency, etc., should in my opinion be left to the professionals. Christ, I'm fairly well educated and I take a reasonable interest in these things, but it's WAY to big a subject for me (or the vast majority of the public) to grasp well enough to make that sort of decision. It would be a massive cop-out by the people we pay to manage the country and its economy, and would probably be decided by emotion, stoked up by the tabloid press. Wrong, wrong, wrong. If a party has a stance on such an issue, they should make part of their manifesto. If they get voted in, they can just get on with it, whether we like it or not - they already have a mandate. Heartily agreed. A major foundation of my stance against an EU referendum is that people are not informed enough to make such a huge decision, and it is massively difficult to educate someone as to the issue. Assuming they'd even care to be educated on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I was thinking of starting a thread about referendums (referenda if you prefer), or putting something in the bollitics thread, but this seems a good a place as any. In a nutshell, I'm mostly agin 'em. The received wisdom would seem to be "We can leave the minor stuff to Westminster, but if it's something important, we should put it to a referendum". My opinion is exactly the opposite. If it's something emotive, but effectively trivial - (say) changing the flag, or the national anthem - by all means consult the great unwashed. But something as complex as joining/leaving the EU, changing the currency, etc., should in my opinion be left to the professionals. Christ, I'm fairly well educated and I take a reasonable interest in these things, but it's WAY to big a subject for me (or the vast majority of the public) to grasp well enough to make that sort of decision. It would be a massive cop-out by the people we pay to manage the country and its economy, and would probably be decided by emotion, stoked up by the tabloid press. Wrong, wrong, wrong. If a party has a stance on such an issue, they should make part of their manifesto. If they get voted in, they can just get on with it, whether we like it or not - they already have a mandate. the swiss enjoy a good referendum, about most things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2012 "In Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switerzland they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The cuckoo clock." (Orson Welles in "The Third Man", screenplay by Graham Greene) Not actually relevant, I just like the quotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I was thinking of starting a thread about referendums (referenda if you prefer), or putting something in the bollitics thread, but this seems a good a place as any. In a nutshell, I'm mostly agin 'em. The received wisdom would seem to be "We can leave the minor stuff to Westminster, but if it's something important, we should put it to a referendum". My opinion is exactly the opposite. If it's something emotive, but effectively trivial - (say) changing the flag, or the national anthem - by all means consult the great unwashed. But something as complex as joining/leaving the EU, changing the currency, etc., should in my opinion be left to the professionals. Christ, I'm fairly well educated and I take a reasonable interest in these things, but it's WAY too big a subject for me (or the vast majority of the public) to grasp well enough to make that sort of decision. It would be a massive cop-out by the people we pay to manage the country and its economy, and would probably be decided by emotion, stoked up by the tabloid press. Wrong, wrong, wrong. If a party has a stance on such an issue, they should make part of their manifesto. If they get voted in, they can just get on with it, whether we like it or not - they already have a mandate. Edited for typos. Why are you bringing Blues fans into this? One doubts they could even spell politiks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I can't see it happening, however I can see more powers being handed over and a more USA style system in place. Which may be in the best interests of everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The point about this sparking off a chain reaction in places like Wales, Catalonia, the Basque country, Cornwall, the commonwealth, Yorkshire (lol) and others is interesting too. I'm sure Levi posted a map on VT years back that showed just this ..Apart from the obvious one i seem to recall Kent merged with parts of France ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 An interesting thing I've noticed on all the newspaper message boards (and to a certain extent on here) is the level of anti-Scottish sentiment this has brought bubbling to the surface this week. A lot of name calling and abuse from our southern cousins. you say that like it's unwarranted :winkold: TBH I've not seen the Scots "anti English" that is often portrayed in the media / forums etc. .. I used to go up to Scotland frequently for work and never found any issues about the fact I was English ..often I would be on my own in a restaurant and people would invite me to come join them rather than eat on my own ... they are just seem to be more open and friendly North of the Border saying that I've never been there as an Englishman when Scotland are playing England , had I done so maybe I'd be posting something entirely different ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have little doubt Scotland would be fine as an independent country. Look at Norway or Denmark which have similar resources and populations. It's untangling the Union that would be the major problem. It would be so complex and costly to Scotland it might make the whole thing untenable. If that can all be sorted out, in the long-term Scotland would be just fine on its own. Absolutley no reason why it can't be. An interesting thing I've noticed on all the newspaper message boards (and to a certain extent on here) is the level of anti-Scottish sentiment this has brought bubbling to the surface this week. A lot of name calling and abuse from our southern cousins. This. The divorce might be messy, but in the long term it gives the Scots a chance to build a more effective and fairer democracy than the current one, and a more representative democracy, which works for them. If they want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My dad has been working in Scotland (North Berwick, half an hour east of Edinburgh) for a couple of years now and he always felt some degree of anti Englishness was there. 95% of people are absolutely lovely, but he said no matter where he went, whether it was work, the pub, a restaurant or wherever, there always seemed to be one bloke who really really hated England and English people. They never seem to be able to explain why though. Personally I think a lot of it is just hating something because it is bigger. There is a lot of irrational hatred of London on here for example, I think most of that is just because London is a big and easy target. Ditto a lot of Anti Americanism. On the whole I think we get on fine as neighbours. Every time I have been to Scotland I have always found it pleasant. I think my next holiday will be in Edinburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeevilla Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think my next holiday will be in Edinburgh. You'll love it. I live just down the road. Fancy a pint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Out of a purple tin at nine o'clock in the morning? (sorry, couldnt resist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2012 There is a lot of irrational hatred of London on here for example, I think most of that is just because London is a big and easy target. Seems to be almost universal that in every country there is an antipathy between the capital city and the people in the rest of the country. I've certainly come across this in relation to Dublin, Paris and Berlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I dont think it has to be the capital either. I would imagine it is common in America with New York, L.A. and Chicago being targets, and with Sydney in Australia. I think it is entirely the same sentiment as why some people in Scotland dont like England. I guess it is just part of human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 12, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted January 12, 2012 I dont think it has to be the capital either. I would imagine it is common in America with New York, L.A. and Chicago being targets, and with Sydney in Australia. I think it is entirely the same sentiment as why some people in Scotland dont like England. I guess it is just part of human nature.Yeah, I was going to say that some countries do have "de facto capitals" that aren't actually the official seat of government. I don't suppose anybody has any strong feelings about the (non-politician) inhabitants of (say) Canberra, Brasilia or Washington. But we all know that Londoners, Dubliners, New Yorkers, Parisians, Berliners, etc. have that "arrogant bighead" reputation among the provincials in their respective countries. Probably with some justification, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 An interesting thing I've noticed on all the newspaper message boards (and to a certain extent on here) is the level of anti-Scottish sentiment this has brought bubbling to the surface this week. A lot of name calling and abuse from our southern cousins. Indeed. I ve never understood the problem some English people have with the Scots (and vice versa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts