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Vegetarians / Meat-Eaters


ender4

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Farming meat and settling populations enabled humans to create things, like tools etc.

Didn't humans create tools (for getting meat off hunted animals) much before this?

 

 

We had rudimentary tools yes.  I.e. we could kill things, defend ourselves etc.  Very basic.

 

When we settled, it enabled us to terraform the land around us - cut down trees, make dwellings, make more efficient weapons/tools.  Eating meat (thus farming it) and keeping it in one place enabled us to cultivate our own vegetables too, so in essence, without meat, we'd never have settled, we couldn't have sustained larger groups of people, who's ideas and team working have led to more inventions. 

 

Had we remained veggies, we couldn't have farmed enough of it to sustain a large group of people, due to the lack of quantity and nutrients. 

 

As soon as we started farming, we found out how to cure the meat, so it lasted = more calories that do not spoil.  We'd also still all be walking around naked, for better or worse :lol:

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We had rudimentary tools yes.  I.e. we could kill things, defend ourselves etc.  Very basic.

So we did have tools before we became settlers (however rudimentary - I gathered that we had stuff that would cut through hides and would gain access to bone marrow, too)?

When we became settlers and needed tools for other, more complex tasks, we developed those.

Edited by snowychap
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There's a few on here that are putting emotional consciousness into animals. It doesn't work that way. These animals are born, eat, defecate and sleep and are then uncruelly bolted. There is no drama, no emotion, just pure instinct.

We've eaten meat since day 1, we will continue to do so until the day humans cease to exist.

I understand that there are exceptions to the uncruel killing, but they make up a tiny proportion.

We harvest meat because it meant we didn't have to hunter-gather anymore. Why walk hundreds of miles when you can slap a fence round a herd of buffalo right?

Farming meat and settling populations enabled humans to create things, like tools etc. You think we'd have any usable metal wondering around the plains?

I know you know this, and vegetarianism is a choice, just like carnivorism. But to not have meat on the basis that you've saved a life, or won't eat a burger because it's processed, is very strange.

You haven't saved anything.

The right attitude to vegetarianism is ingram, on the basis that not eating meat is healthy -for him.

 

You're completely negating people who become vegetarian for moral reasons. Your argument is "very strange."

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Most large herbivores spend a lot of time eating or trekking to areas where there is food.

 

A supply of a concentrated foodstuff like meat, enables you to sit about a bit to ponder over the problems of life.

 

One thing I've noticed since I've had this allotment is that I enjoy vegetables more than I used to. Whether that's down them being organic and as fresh as it's possible to be, or simply psychological (the sheer novelty of growing my own food - free!), I don't know. They're still a support act for meat, though.

 

Supermarkets like pretty looking produce. Just the right amount of blush on an apple makes them happy, even if it is tasteless.

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He also says that we ate meat from 'day 1', which I find very unlikely. Surely prehistoric-man would have eaten a few leaves and berries, maybe even twigs, for the first few days, to get his energy up, before getting the confidence to attack a giant, flying, sabre-toothed mammoth? Lapal_fan knows nothing.

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There's a few on here that are putting emotional consciousness into animals. It doesn't work that way. These animals are born, eat, defecate and sleep and are then uncruelly bolted. There is no drama, no emotion, just pure instinct.

We've eaten meat since day 1, we will continue to do so until the day humans cease to exist.

I understand that there are exceptions to the uncruel killing, but they make up a tiny proportion.

We harvest meat because it meant we didn't have to hunter-gather anymore. Why walk hundreds of miles when you can slap a fence round a herd of buffalo right?

Farming meat and settling populations enabled humans to create things, like tools etc. You think we'd have any usable metal wondering around the plains?

I know you know this, and vegetarianism is a choice, just like carnivorism. But to not have meat on the basis that you've saved a life, or won't eat a burger because it's processed, is very strange.

You haven't saved anything.

The right attitude to vegetarianism is ingram, on the basis that not eating meat is healthy -for him.

 

You're completely negating people who become vegetarian for moral reasons. Your argument is "very strange."

 

 

Not really, I'm justifying what all of our distant and near ancestors have done, to get our species to the position it's in today.

 

That's not strange, that's fact.

 

We're at a point in time now where you can say "It's wrong to kill animals", but you wouldn't be in a position to do that without everyone of your ancestors eating meat. 

 

If you're talking about the morals of HOW we kill animals in present day, to keep up with the demand of nearly 4 billions people, then you can make a case for it, although a bolt to the head is about as harmless as can possibly be and it's only until fairly recently we started doing it.. does that mean in the past, we were morally wrong?

 

I do agree when people say "If you can't go and kill a chicken, you shouldn't eat one" - I get that, but then again, I wouldn't mind killing a chicken, or a cow, or a buffalo or anything if it meant my survival.  I just don't have to (and it would be illegal here anyway), so I go to the supermarket.

 

Have you ever worn leather in any form?  What then?

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We had rudimentary tools yes.  I.e. we could kill things, defend ourselves etc.  Very basic.

So we did have tools before we became settlers (however rudimentary - I gathered that we had stuff that would cut through hides and would gain access to bone marrow, too)?

When we became settlers and needed tools for other, more complex tasks, we developed those.

 

 

If you want to get all autistic about it then yes, I failed to mention that hunter-gatherers could pick up sharp rocks and lash them to a stick, and keep smaller sharp rocks in their buffalo hide pouches, to skin and cut the flesh of the kill.

 

But then it was pretty obvious what point I was making.. I was talking about more complex tools.  I'm sorry if you failed to understand that point, but I didn't have time to go into the intricacies. 

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You used too many long words that you've obviously heard on documentaries, so it wasn't obvious what point you were making, actually. I thought you were talking about the decline of the textiles industry tbh.

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There's a few on here that are putting emotional consciousness into animals. It doesn't work that way. These animals are born, eat, defecate and sleep and are then uncruelly bolted. There is no drama, no emotion, just pure instinct.

We've eaten meat since day 1, we will continue to do so until the day humans cease to exist.

I understand that there are exceptions to the uncruel killing, but they make up a tiny proportion.

We harvest meat because it meant we didn't have to hunter-gather anymore. Why walk hundreds of miles when you can slap a fence round a herd of buffalo right?

Farming meat and settling populations enabled humans to create things, like tools etc. You think we'd have any usable metal wondering around the plains?

I know you know this, and vegetarianism is a choice, just like carnivorism. But to not have meat on the basis that you've saved a life, or won't eat a burger because it's processed, is very strange.

You haven't saved anything.

The right attitude to vegetarianism is ingram, on the basis that not eating meat is healthy -for him.

 

You're completely negating people who become vegetarian for moral reasons. Your argument is "very strange."

 

 

Not really, I'm justifying what all of our distant and near ancestors have done, to get our species to the position it's in today.

 

That's not strange, that's fact.

 

We're at a point in time now where you can say "It's wrong to kill animals", but you wouldn't be in a position to do that without everyone of your ancestors eating meat. 

 

If you're talking about the morals of HOW we kill animals in present day, to keep up with the demand of nearly 4 billions people, then you can make a case for it, although a bolt to the head is about as harmless as can possibly be and it's only until fairly recently we started doing it.. does that mean in the past, we were morally wrong?

 

I do agree when people say "If you can't go and kill a chicken, you shouldn't eat one" - I get that, but then again, I wouldn't mind killing a chicken, or a cow, or a buffalo or anything if it meant my survival.  I just don't have to (and it would be illegal here anyway), so I go to the supermarket.

 

Have you ever worn leather in any form?  What then?

 

 

You're a self-loathing meat eater.  :)  There's a lot of bitterness in your posts on this topic.

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it is perfectly possible to be a completely healthy person without consuming meat.

What do you use as your main source of protein?
I think we all know ;)
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Bitterness? OK..

 

I like veggie food, I like falafalalael, it's nice on a sandwich with avocado and some sweet chilli sauce!

 

I also love goats cheese tarts or anything with goats cheese in it. 

 

I could be a veggie, but I like meat.

 

No bitterness here fella.

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Straying towards being a bit of a pescatarian these days, but only because i love eating fish. Could quite happily live without meat, and indeed I probably would if things like Monkfish and Tuna were a little (lot) cheaper.

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If you want to get all autistic about it then yes, I failed to mention that hunter-gatherers could pick up sharp rocks and lash them to a stick, and keep smaller sharp rocks in their buffalo hide pouches, to skin and cut the flesh of the kill.

 

But then it was pretty obvious what point I was making.. I was talking about more complex tools.  I'm sorry if you failed to understand that point, but I didn't have time to go into the intricacies.

No need for you to be a dick about it.

You obviously missed the point that I was making in that it would appear to have been a progression rather than a step change but if you want to call people autistic because they have the temerity to question what you post then go ahead if it strokes your ego.

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If you want to get all autistic about it then yes, I failed to mention that hunter-gatherers could pick up sharp rocks and lash them to a stick, and keep smaller sharp rocks in their buffalo hide pouches, to skin and cut the flesh of the kill.

 

But then it was pretty obvious what point I was making.. I was talking about more complex tools.  I'm sorry if you failed to understand that point, but I didn't have time to go into the intricacies.

No need for you to be a dick about it.

You obviously missed the point that I was making in that it would appear to have been a progression rather than a step change but if you want to call people autistic because they have the temerity to question what you post then go ahead if it strokes your ego.

 

:lol:

 

Ego well and truly stroked.

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