R.I.P Saab Automobile

[bickster]

Doh! I hate thread necromancy sometimes!

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

The price of a Land Rover has gone through the roof as they build better and better appointed nob-trolleys for the planet's rich elite.

 

The high price of the new Jag surprised a lot of people (even Clarkson) and no doubt Tata are convinced that customers (the East's new rich) will pay a premium price for the kudos of owning a car built by Europeans; thus their heavy investment.

 

The price of the new range rover has gone up. The rest of the Land Rover product base has remained fairly steady. And the Evoque is a very cheap (relatively speaking) alternative to a proper Range Rover.

But yeah, the East will pay a lot for luxury vehicles. It's basically why JLR are doing so well.

 

If you were surprised by the price of the F-Type you weren't guessing very well.

 

Tata haven't invested heavily apart from their initial purchase from Ford. And seeing as JLR recently posted half year profits of over a billion quid, it looks lik emoney well spent.

 

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item but I was amazed how much the Defender range has gone up: I can't get my head around a £30k Defender.

 

It was Clarkson who expressed his surprise at the price of the new F-Type.

 

As for Tata investment it looks pretty impressive when you drive past both Castle Brom and the engine plant north of Birmingham, but of course they could be just empty sheds.

[BOF]

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item

Has it though? Genuine question. Was one of this era regarded as any more than an equivalent Hi-Lux or Land Cruiser? For me, growing up as a Top Trump fanatic, the Land Rover seemed to change from being a quality but primarily functional off-roader to being the Chelsea tractor we know and love today.

[rjw63]

Doesn't Per work for SAAB?

If you mean our resident Queen fan then no, it's Volvo

[MakemineVanilla]

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item

Has it though? Genuine question. Was one of this era regarded as any more than an equivalent Hi-Lux or Land Cruiser? For me, growing up as a Top Trump fanatic, the Land Rover seemed to change from being a quality but primarily functional off-roader to being the Chelsea tractor we know and love today.

 

 

Put it this way, I never knew an ordinary Joe drive one until they were cheap enough second-hand.

 

I think the 3.5 V8 put the RR into the luxury bracket for people driving Cortinas and Austin 1100s back in 1970.

 

The only way to find out for certain is to see which class of person drove them in 1970's television programmes.

 

Cars were always solid class-markers in TV shows back then.

Edited December 3, 2013 by MakemineVanilla

[Stevo985]

 

 

 

The price of a Land Rover has gone through the roof as they build better and better appointed nob-trolleys for the planet's rich elite.

 

The high price of the new Jag surprised a lot of people (even Clarkson) and no doubt Tata are convinced that customers (the East's new rich) will pay a premium price for the kudos of owning a car built by Europeans; thus their heavy investment.

 

The price of the new range rover has gone up. The rest of the Land Rover product base has remained fairly steady. And the Evoque is a very cheap (relatively speaking) alternative to a proper Range Rover.

But yeah, the East will pay a lot for luxury vehicles. It's basically why JLR are doing so well.

 

If you were surprised by the price of the F-Type you weren't guessing very well.

 

Tata haven't invested heavily apart from their initial purchase from Ford. And seeing as JLR recently posted half year profits of over a billion quid, it looks lik emoney well spent.

 

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item but I was amazed how much the Defender range has gone up: I can't get my head around a £30k Defender.

 

It was Clarkson who expressed his surprise at the price of the new F-Type.

 

As for Tata investment it looks pretty impressive when you drive past both Castle Brom and the engine plant north of Birmingham, but of course they could be just empty sheds.

 

But Tata haven't paid for those (not sure what the empty shed comment means). JLR have paid for them.

It's not like Tata have given JLR a load of cash to buy that stuff.

 

You're buying a pretty high spec Defender to pay over 30 grand. The vast majority of that range is priced under 30k (comfortably under, in fact)

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Besides which £30k for a brand new motor is hardly "elite".

[Pelle]

 

Doesn't Per work for SAAB?

 

No, he plays for Arsenal...

 

 

I don't know which insults me the most, said to work for SAAB or said to play for arsenal... But as the well bearded man said, it's Volvo for me. Or rather Tenneco but we deliver only to Volvo from this factory.

 

I think SAAB could be well needed for swedish economy, and even more for Trollhättan, but as a car it's never been a favourite of mine.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Pelle

[chrisp65]

I've got two mates that'll be happy with this news, both confirmed Saab nuts, do the owners' club meets and that sort of thing. One is an accountant and one is an architect, I think that's just about bang on profile for Saab ownership.

 

They'd both decided they'd just keep running their old Saabs rather than venture into the world of modern cars (they have 5 between the 2 of them).

[Xela]

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item

Has it though? Genuine question. Was one of this era regarded as any more than an equivalent Hi-Lux or Land Cruiser? For me, growing up as a Top Trump fanatic, the Land Rover seemed to change from being a quality but primarily functional off-roader to being the Chelsea tractor we know and love today.

 

My father always wanted a Range Rover Vogue in the 80's (when he had a Ford Granada) but he could never afford. it. Now, as things have improved over time financially for him and he could buy one, he doesn't like them anymore! 

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

 

 

The price of a Land Rover has gone through the roof as they build better and better appointed nob-trolleys for the planet's rich elite.

 

The high price of the new Jag surprised a lot of people (even Clarkson) and no doubt Tata are convinced that customers (the East's new rich) will pay a premium price for the kudos of owning a car built by Europeans; thus their heavy investment.

 

The price of the new range rover has gone up. The rest of the Land Rover product base has remained fairly steady. And the Evoque is a very cheap (relatively speaking) alternative to a proper Range Rover.

But yeah, the East will pay a lot for luxury vehicles. It's basically why JLR are doing so well.

 

If you were surprised by the price of the F-Type you weren't guessing very well.

 

Tata haven't invested heavily apart from their initial purchase from Ford. And seeing as JLR recently posted half year profits of over a billion quid, it looks lik emoney well spent.

 

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item but I was amazed how much the Defender range has gone up: I can't get my head around a £30k Defender.

 

It was Clarkson who expressed his surprise at the price of the new F-Type.

 

As for Tata investment it looks pretty impressive when you drive past both Castle Brom and the engine plant north of Birmingham, but of course they could be just empty sheds.

 

But Tata haven't paid for those (not sure what the empty shed comment means). JLR have paid for them.

It's not like Tata have given JLR a load of cash to buy that stuff.

 

You're buying a pretty high spec Defender to pay over 30 grand. The vast majority of that range is priced under 30k (comfortably under, in fact)

 

 

The fancy Defenders on AutoTrader peak at £50k - secondhand.

[Kingfisher]

Now these are great Saab's.

http://www.aircraftinformation.info/Images/Draken_05.jpg

[Stevo985]

 

 

 

 

 

The price of a Land Rover has gone through the roof as they build better and better appointed nob-trolleys for the planet's rich elite.

 

The high price of the new Jag surprised a lot of people (even Clarkson) and no doubt Tata are convinced that customers (the East's new rich) will pay a premium price for the kudos of owning a car built by Europeans; thus their heavy investment.

 

The price of the new range rover has gone up. The rest of the Land Rover product base has remained fairly steady. And the Evoque is a very cheap (relatively speaking) alternative to a proper Range Rover.

But yeah, the East will pay a lot for luxury vehicles. It's basically why JLR are doing so well.

 

If you were surprised by the price of the F-Type you weren't guessing very well.

 

Tata haven't invested heavily apart from their initial purchase from Ford. And seeing as JLR recently posted half year profits of over a billion quid, it looks lik emoney well spent.

 

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item but I was amazed how much the Defender range has gone up: I can't get my head around a £30k Defender.

 

It was Clarkson who expressed his surprise at the price of the new F-Type.

 

As for Tata investment it looks pretty impressive when you drive past both Castle Brom and the engine plant north of Birmingham, but of course they could be just empty sheds.

 

But Tata haven't paid for those (not sure what the empty shed comment means). JLR have paid for them.

It's not like Tata have given JLR a load of cash to buy that stuff.

 

You're buying a pretty high spec Defender to pay over 30 grand. The vast majority of that range is priced under 30k (comfortably under, in fact)

 

 

The fancy Defenders on AutoTrader peak at £50k - secondhand.

 

Only Special/limited editions or highly customised Defenders, because brand new, buying directly from Land Rover, I can't get a Defender to cost more than £45 grand ish. And that's taking the highest spec and literally going down the options list and adding the most expensive of everything (not considering that some options won't be compatible with each other so that's unrealistically high)

 

So I don't think someone customising a Defender andselling it for a fortune reflects what Land Rover are charging people

Edited December 3, 2013 by Stevo985

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The price of a Land Rover has gone through the roof as they build better and better appointed nob-trolleys for the planet's rich elite.

 

The high price of the new Jag surprised a lot of people (even Clarkson) and no doubt Tata are convinced that customers (the East's new rich) will pay a premium price for the kudos of owning a car built by Europeans; thus their heavy investment.

 

The price of the new range rover has gone up. The rest of the Land Rover product base has remained fairly steady. And the Evoque is a very cheap (relatively speaking) alternative to a proper Range Rover.

But yeah, the East will pay a lot for luxury vehicles. It's basically why JLR are doing so well.

 

If you were surprised by the price of the F-Type you weren't guessing very well.

 

Tata haven't invested heavily apart from their initial purchase from Ford. And seeing as JLR recently posted half year profits of over a billion quid, it looks lik emoney well spent.

 

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item but I was amazed how much the Defender range has gone up: I can't get my head around a £30k Defender.

 

It was Clarkson who expressed his surprise at the price of the new F-Type.

 

As for Tata investment it looks pretty impressive when you drive past both Castle Brom and the engine plant north of Birmingham, but of course they could be just empty sheds.

 

But Tata haven't paid for those (not sure what the empty shed comment means). JLR have paid for them.

It's not like Tata have given JLR a load of cash to buy that stuff.

 

You're buying a pretty high spec Defender to pay over 30 grand. The vast majority of that range is priced under 30k (comfortably under, in fact)

 

 

The fancy Defenders on AutoTrader peak at £50k - secondhand.

 

Only Special/limited editions or highly customised Defenders, because brand new, buying directly from Land Rover, I can't get a Defender to cost more than £45 grand ish. And that's taking the highest spec and literally going down the options list and adding the most expensive of everything (not considering that some options won't be compatible with each other so that's unrealistically high)

 

So I don't think someone customising a Defender andselling it for a fortune reflects what Land Rover are charging people

 

 

I paid £16k for a high-spec Defender back in 1993 and so it looks like they now cost twice as much.

 

Let's hope they have improved. My own was a nightmare and I chopped it in after twelve months because the dealers proved worse than the vehicle itself.

 

I have managed to mentally block out how much I actually lost in depreciation.

 

I still love them but I would never have another unless it was an old one from the days before the accountants started to mess with them.

[Stevo985]

20 years ago? Yeah I'd expect prices to have gone up since then
Incidentally, if you take inflation into account, the OTR price of the most expensive Defender currently would be around £18,000 in 1993. So it's hardly bucketloads more expensive is it?
 

before the accountants started to mess with them.

 

Edited December 4, 2013 by Stevo985

[StanBalaban]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The price of a Land Rover has gone through the roof as they build better and better appointed nob-trolleys for the planet's rich elite.

 

The high price of the new Jag surprised a lot of people (even Clarkson) and no doubt Tata are convinced that customers (the East's new rich) will pay a premium price for the kudos of owning a car built by Europeans; thus their heavy investment.

 

The price of the new range rover has gone up. The rest of the Land Rover product base has remained fairly steady. And the Evoque is a very cheap (relatively speaking) alternative to a proper Range Rover.

But yeah, the East will pay a lot for luxury vehicles. It's basically why JLR are doing so well.

 

If you were surprised by the price of the F-Type you weren't guessing very well.

 

Tata haven't invested heavily apart from their initial purchase from Ford. And seeing as JLR recently posted half year profits of over a billion quid, it looks lik emoney well spent.

 

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item but I was amazed how much the Defender range has gone up: I can't get my head around a £30k Defender.

 

It was Clarkson who expressed his surprise at the price of the new F-Type.

 

As for Tata investment it looks pretty impressive when you drive past both Castle Brom and the engine plant north of Birmingham, but of course they could be just empty sheds.

 

But Tata haven't paid for those (not sure what the empty shed comment means). JLR have paid for them.

It's not like Tata have given JLR a load of cash to buy that stuff.

 

You're buying a pretty high spec Defender to pay over 30 grand. The vast majority of that range is priced under 30k (comfortably under, in fact)

 

 

The fancy Defenders on AutoTrader peak at £50k - secondhand.

 

Only Special/limited editions or highly customised Defenders, because brand new, buying directly from Land Rover, I can't get a Defender to cost more than £45 grand ish. And that's taking the highest spec and literally going down the options list and adding the most expensive of everything (not considering that some options won't be compatible with each other so that's unrealistically high)

 

So I don't think someone customising a Defender andselling it for a fortune reflects what Land Rover are charging people

 

 

I paid £16k for a high-spec Defender back in 1993 and so it looks like they now cost twice as much.

 

Let's hope they have improved. My own was a nightmare and I chopped it in after twelve months because the dealers proved worse than the vehicle itself.

 

I have managed to mentally block out how much I actually lost in depreciation.

 

I still love them but I would never have another unless it was an old one from the days before the accountants started to mess with them.

 

I would offer that the Defender is, and always has been, a very slow depreciating vehicle due to it's constant demand and consistent design.

 

Incidentally, you'll pay a decent premium for a good Defender over here as they are seen as very cool vehicles - in the Merc G-Wagon ilk.

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The price of a Land Rover has gone through the roof as they build better and better appointed nob-trolleys for the planet's rich elite.

 

The high price of the new Jag surprised a lot of people (even Clarkson) and no doubt Tata are convinced that customers (the East's new rich) will pay a premium price for the kudos of owning a car built by Europeans; thus their heavy investment.

 

The price of the new range rover has gone up. The rest of the Land Rover product base has remained fairly steady. And the Evoque is a very cheap (relatively speaking) alternative to a proper Range Rover.

But yeah, the East will pay a lot for luxury vehicles. It's basically why JLR are doing so well.

 

If you were surprised by the price of the F-Type you weren't guessing very well.

 

Tata haven't invested heavily apart from their initial purchase from Ford. And seeing as JLR recently posted half year profits of over a billion quid, it looks lik emoney well spent.

 

 

The Range Rover has always been a luxury item but I was amazed how much the Defender range has gone up: I can't get my head around a £30k Defender.

 

It was Clarkson who expressed his surprise at the price of the new F-Type.

 

As for Tata investment it looks pretty impressive when you drive past both Castle Brom and the engine plant north of Birmingham, but of course they could be just empty sheds.

 

But Tata haven't paid for those (not sure what the empty shed comment means). JLR have paid for them.

It's not like Tata have given JLR a load of cash to buy that stuff.

 

You're buying a pretty high spec Defender to pay over 30 grand. The vast majority of that range is priced under 30k (comfortably under, in fact)

 

 

The fancy Defenders on AutoTrader peak at £50k - secondhand.

 

Only Special/limited editions or highly customised Defenders, because brand new, buying directly from Land Rover, I can't get a Defender to cost more than £45 grand ish. And that's taking the highest spec and literally going down the options list and adding the most expensive of everything (not considering that some options won't be compatible with each other so that's unrealistically high)

 

So I don't think someone customising a Defender andselling it for a fortune reflects what Land Rover are charging people

 

 

I paid £16k for a high-spec Defender back in 1993 and so it looks like they now cost twice as much.

 

Let's hope they have improved. My own was a nightmare and I chopped it in after twelve months because the dealers proved worse than the vehicle itself.

 

I have managed to mentally block out how much I actually lost in depreciation.

 

I still love them but I would never have another unless it was an old one from the days before the accountants started to mess with them.

 

I would offer that the Defender is, and always has been, a very slow depreciating vehicle due to it's constant demand and consistent design.

 

Incidentally, you'll pay a decent premium for a good Defender over here as they are seen as very cool vehicles - in the Merc G-Wagon ilk.

 

 

Totally cool but not very well built in my experience.

 

It sounds hilarious now but it wasn't at the time.

 

I took it back after three months because the power steering was leaking and after they repaired it for the second time, the guy at the dealership told me that I should try to keep my wheels straight when I was waiting to turn to avoid putting strain on the steering.

 

I asked him what advice he had for when I was climbing up the side of a mountain - he had nothing to say.

 

I saw a Defender the other week exactly the same age as my old one and I was amused to see it was standing in a pool of hydraulic fluid.

 

The next fault was the collapse of the passenger-side front suspension which put the vehicle at a permanent angle.

 

The same guy at the dealership told me that it was a design feature which meant that when the driver got in the vehicle levelled out.

 

I was not amused. 

[Stevo985]

I'd say basing your current buying preferences on one bad experience 20 years ago isn't the greatest idea. 

Land Rover are far form perfect these days, but much has improved in the past 5 years, let alone 20.

 

Also, it's estimated that 75% of all Land Rovers ever sold (since 1948) are still on the road, so you were probably just unlucky

[MakemineVanilla]

I'd say basing your current buying preferences on one bad experience 20 years ago isn't the greatest idea. 

Land Rover are far form perfect these days, but much has improved in the past 5 years, let alone 20.

 

Also, it's estimated that 75% of all Land Rovers ever sold (since 1948) are still on the road, so you were probably just unlucky

 

No not unlucky.

 

I just think they were trying to upgrade the Defender experience from agricultural equipment to something a bit more luxurious, so they had bolted a load of crappy parts which weren't up to the job, to what was basically a sound proven vehicle and the power steering unit was just one of those parts.

 

It is what happens when the accountants get their way.

 

I think the earlier models were probably the real deal and the more authentic experience: who needs power-steering when you have a steering wheel the size of a dustbin lid.

 

I presume you work for LR because LR employees are always inordinately proud of the company and their products.

 

They will always correct you if you suggest they make 'cars'.

[Stevo985]

 

I'd say basing your current buying preferences on one bad experience 20 years ago isn't the greatest idea. 

Land Rover are far form perfect these days, but much has improved in the past 5 years, let alone 20.

 

Also, it's estimated that 75% of all Land Rovers ever sold (since 1948) are still on the road, so you were probably just unlucky

 

No not unlucky.

 

I just think they were trying to upgrade the Defender experience from agricultural equipment to something a bit more luxurious, so they had bolted a load of crappy parts which weren't up to the job, to what was basically a sound proven vehicle and the power steering unit was just one of those parts.

 

It is what happens when the accountants get their way.

 

I think the earlier models were probably the real deal and the more authentic experience: who needs power-steering when you have a steering wheel the size of a dustbin lid.

 

I presume you work for LR because LR employees are always inordinately proud of the company and their products.

 

They will always correct you if you suggest they make 'cars'.

 

I am an employee.

 

I'm not inordinately proud of the company whatsoever. Some people who work here are, it's ridiculous. But I'm not and I'm not sure where you've got that from. All I've done is correct you on your claims that second hand Defenders are 50 grand (they're not unless you're talking about a rare one or one that's been heavily customised) and that Defenders have risen in price an extortionate amount (as I've shown, taking inflation into account they haven't) 

 

As for accountants getting their way, I imagine if that hadn't have happened then Land Rover wouldn't exist for you to complain about.

 

You've obviously had a bad experience, which is fine. Plenty of people have. But as I said, holding a grudge for 20 years seems a bit of a silly thing to do based on that, especially when most of your anger seems to be based on nonsense.

 

As for your last 2 lines, wind your **** neck in.