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Kim Jong Il dead

LincsVilla

By LincsVilla
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TheDrums Newbie

TheDrums

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Fair?

helped bring about the end of the cold war which resulted in the dismantling of the Soviet empire ...

we may not (all) appreciate it but i suspect there are a lot of Europeans who do

The Soviet Union would have imploded from within with or without Thatcher and anyone else for that matter.

It was essentially a contradictory, beauracratic, overlapping political machine which could only ever end in one way - economic ruin and collapse of the state.

Precisely, the Communist Bloc was a house of cards held together with fear, the people of those countries forced the end of the Cold War allied to the regieme being so short of actual money they had to simply just give up. Whether it be the people of Russia who Gorbachev gave a little sniff of freedom to with Perestroika & Glasnost (and that was kind of forced on the CP by the fact that they knew they couldn't hold the people together much longer), the Polish lead by the Gdansk Shipworkers and Lech Walensa, the Czech's with Vaclav Havel... It was happening everywhere across the Communist Bloc. People power brought an end to the Cold War, I was in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and the USSR at the time, working and mixing with your average Joe, staying in some of their houses and workmens hostels too, which would have been unthinkable only a couple of years earlier, they'd had enough, they were taking every bit of their little gains in freedom and running a mile with them and you just knew if they couldn't run that mile they'd keep pushing until they did. Once one of those countries freed themselves it was only a matter of time and the whole lot came down and it really did have bugger all to do with SALT talks and arms reduction, they weren't there to end the Cold War, they were there to save both sides some cash, in fact if those talks hadn't taken place and the arsenals reduced there is actually an argument that the fall of the Communist Bloc would have been much earlier as the constant arms building would have bankrupted the Bloc much earlier.

I agree. One of the most important theories that thrived throughout the Cold War in the west was the domino theory that if one state came under Communist rule, then it would spread in that region, and I believe it can also be applied correctly to the dismantling of Eastern Europe under the Soviets.

As you said bickster, it was only a matter of time, and once one country broke away the rest would surely rise up and follow.

who knows maybe it would have been 1 year maybe it would have been 5 or maybe not at all but it was precisely the stance that Thatcher (and Reagan)took that showed the soviet bloc that the U.S.S.R's foundations were faulty,they couldn't match the arms race of the west and confronted by its free economies and the reality of its liberties, the Communist state were eventually forced to recognize their own failure.

(but really not the right thread)

The Soviet Union was a created contradiction, and it was no more Communist than Great Britain today. Capitalism was always going to defeat an ideology that wasn't what it said it was.

With the growing economic crisis, and the plight of millions of Eastern Europeans into wide-spready severe pauparism, combined with the fact the Soviets were nearly bankrupt there is absolutely no way they could afford to keep their stranglehold over Eastern Europe. It was a ticking time bomb. As the belief goes every great empire eventually falls - Roman Empire, Babylon, Ancient Egypt, Napoleon, Nazi Germany and the USSR which was contradictory flawed since its creation.

And in staying on topic The Guardian had an article today 10 facts on the dear one. Apparently the Norths official website once put up a page saying he doesn't urinate or go for a dump. :lol::lol:

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peterms Newbie

peterms

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The Soviet Union was a created contradiction, and it was no more Communist than Great Britain today. Capitalism was always going to defeat an ideology that wasn't what it said it was.

With the growing economic crisis, and the plight of millions of Eastern Europeans into wide-spready severe pauparism, combined with the fact the Soviets were nearly bankrupt there is absolutely no way they could afford to keep their stranglehold over Eastern Europe. It was a ticking time bomb. As the belief goes every great empire eventually falls - Roman Empire, Babylon, Ancient Egypt, Napoleon, Nazi Germany and the USSR which was contradictory flawed since its creation.

And in staying on topic The Guardian had an article today 10 facts on the dear one. Apparently the Norths official website once put up a page saying he doesn't urinate or go for a dump.

Capitalism is hardly what it says it is. Perhaps the clearest example is the nonsense about markets, when we see all about us the protection of some kinds of company from both market forces and the consequences of their own mindless decisions - while others, making more useful goods and providing more useful services, go to the wall.

Pauperism in Eastern Europe resulted from the breakdown of a system. We are starting to see similar disruption here, hopefully not to the same degree, and hopefully we have better buffers against it. But it's starting all the same.

Yes, all empires fall. We seem to be observing a phase in the loss of US economic power that started - when? 1971? Or with the wars which preceded that?

On the Great Leader not going for a piss, I think you may have been reading the account of Mr C's negotiating tactics at the recent Euro-summit.

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TheDrums Newbie

TheDrums

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The Soviet Union was a created contradiction, and it was no more Communist than Great Britain today. Capitalism was always going to defeat an ideology that wasn't what it said it was.

With the growing economic crisis, and the plight of millions of Eastern Europeans into wide-spready severe pauparism, combined with the fact the Soviets were nearly bankrupt there is absolutely no way they could afford to keep their stranglehold over Eastern Europe. It was a ticking time bomb. As the belief goes every great empire eventually falls - Roman Empire, Babylon, Ancient Egypt, Napoleon, Nazi Germany and the USSR which was contradictory flawed since its creation.

And in staying on topic The Guardian had an article today 10 facts on the dear one. Apparently the Norths official website once put up a page saying he doesn't urinate or go for a dump.

Capitalism is hardly what it says it is. Perhaps the clearest example is the nonsense about markets, when we see all about us the protection of some kinds of company from both market forces and the consequences of their own mindless decisions - while others, making more useful goods and providing more useful services, go to the wall.

Pauperism in Eastern Europe resulted from the breakdown of a system. We are starting to see similar disruption here, hopefully not to the same degree, and hopefully we have better buffers against it. But it's starting all the same.

Yes, all empires fall. We seem to be observing a phase in the loss of US economic power that started - when? 1971? Or with the wars which preceded that?

On the Great Leader not going for a piss, I think you may have been reading the account of Mr C's negotiating tactics at the recent Euro-summit.

Good post and I certainly agree you. Very good point about the loss of American hegemony over the world economy.

I was watching clips earlier of North Koreans crying. Its absolutely insane that there is brain-washing on that scale in 2011. That stuff makes Nazi propaganda look weak. Whether people genuinely feel such emotions on that scale I'm not sure. I would certainly hedge a bet and guess some people have done it to be seen in public, rather than risking the chance of being reported and sent to a labour camp.

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snowychap Community Regular

snowychap

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I was watching clips earlier of North Koreans crying. Its absolutely insane that there is brain-washing on that scale in 2011. That stuff makes Nazi propaganda look weak. Whether people genuinely feel such emotions on that scale I'm not sure. I would certainly hedge a bet and guess some people have done it to be seen in public...

Howsabout Spencer?

After she kicked the bucket there was wailing aplenty from Dartford to Devon.

That trout's funeral had our league cricket w/e abandoned. Nutty, utterly nutty.

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TheDrums Newbie

TheDrums

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How dare you insult the courageous, loving, ever forgiving, humble Spencer. :lol:

But I definitely agree with you. The level of "grief" that went on for weeks afterwards was embarrassing, especially from people who never even met the woman. Even today we are reminded by certain newspapers about her selflessness. We'll probably never hear the end of her, what with that new parasite being compared with her constantly.

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peterms Newbie

peterms

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There's a little house in Auchtermuchty where the front garden has been made into a shrine to Diana. Floral tributes, pictures, pebbles arranged to form words. Everything facing the street, for the delight of passers-by and neighbours. Looked slightly weatherbeaten and timeworn when I saw it.

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