Pelle Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 You are not going to get any sort of objectivity discussing MON on these boards so there is not much point getting into a serious discussion about the man. This. But it won't stop people. I really liked him when he was here, really disliked him the way he left and the timing of it. But it felt very good to win against him. Very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Bit harsh, that. Big John's post is one of the most sensible and objective posts I've read in a long time concerning O'neill. They are doing no worse than us, yet Lambert is hailed as our saviour while ONeill is consigned to the managerial scrap heap? I don't think so. Aston Villa is in very different place than Sunderland, and both managers came into very different situations. Sunderland has pretty good spine of players who have been playing together for couple of years but are underachieving, but Villa have had lot more chaotic times in last two seasons with only couple players left from MON-days, and most of our players are pretty inexperienced. With players like Sessegnon, Johnson, Fletcher, Larsson etc. they should be playing better but they are suffering because of MON's tactics and playing style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 it felt very good to win against him. Very good. no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 33/1 with William Hill to be the next manager to leave does any one think it is a good bet? Next two games are away to Everton & Fulham, far from nice places to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 my opinion is the man is a fraud if his name was Benitez, Martinez, AVB or something continental he would be slaughtered by the media now. living off a reputation that he thinks he is new Cloughie and he is chummy with the media. his football is terrible, his man management is appalling and ive seen some Sunderland fans saying to prefer Bruce back Sunderland friend of mine has said he is worse than Bruce and can't believe he has given players like Cattermole a new deal when he should be trying to get rid of what Bruce bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I was reading in more than a few places that Cattermole is playing pretty well, and its the so called ‘creative’ players who are doing nothing at the moment. As I ve said, without Robertson MON isn’t half as good. Remind you of another pairing at some other team in some other time? As for Johnson, pretty sure he was talked about fairly affectionately a few times on VT, first when we didn’t sign him and signed Downing and then this summer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Aston Villa is in very different place than Sunderland, and both managers came into very different situations. I don't think you'd find a more similar club to Aston Villa than Sunderland in the Premier League. Sunderland has pretty good spine of players who have been playing together for couple of years but are underachieving, but Villa have had lot more chaotic times in last two seasons with only couple players left from MON-days, and most of our players are pretty inexperienced. With players like Sessegnon, Johnson, Fletcher, Larsson etc. they should be playing better but they are suffering because of MON's tactics and playing style. The first bit of this sounds like a perfect description of our own club, and the second bit could easily be replaced with Ireland, NZogbia, Dunne, Given & Agbonlahor. We really aren't that different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Cattermole is not a creative player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Chaotic would be a good way of summing up Villa over the past two years. Sunderland have at least had a degree of continuity whereas we haven't. I wouldn't say we're that similar to Sunderland at all. Lambert's got a much tougher job on his hands. If the Sunderland owners let the wage bill get to a level they can't sustain then they must be stupid and very poor businessmen. Much like our owner has been. True, but it could also be said that any manager that has to rack up an unsustainable wage bill to build a team he wants isn't that good a manager either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 There are differences for sure, but then you can find differences between identical twins if you look hard enough. Sunderland would still be the best club to compare us to, and as such, it's a bit rich of us to sit here and rip Oneill apart while backing Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I don't think you'd find a more similar club to Aston Villa than Sunderland in the Premier League. The first bit of this sounds like a perfect description of our own club, and the second bit could easily be replaced with Ireland, NZogbia, Dunne, Given & Agbonlahor. We really aren't that different. The difference is that their players are more experienced, have played together longer in stable team, and they haven't brought in half of the team as Villa have. The MON's playing style and tactics should be familiar enough for Sunderland's players by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 True, but it could also be said that any manager that has to rack up an unsustainable wage bill to build a team he wants isn't that good a manager either. To build a team he wants? he built a team to compete in the upper echelons of the Premier League which is where we and at the time the owner wanted us to be. He spent 70-80 mill doing it and we have since recouped approx 60 mill by selling three of his signings. For that we got three sixth place finishes, competed for a top 4 finish till the last month of the season a couple of times, had a couple of good cup runs, played in Europe a few times and reigned supreme over our local rivals not losing a derby game during his tenure. All whilst having the 8th, 6th and 6th highest wage bill. A fair return I'd say. The fact that the club could not sustain having the 6th highest wage bill whilst finishing 6th I put down to the board. You can pretty much guarantee that your wage bill will pretty much reflect, with in a couple of league places, where you finish. Certainly in terms of the top half dozen places. You will of course get the odd case of over achievement. One things for sure if we are to again consistently finish amongst the top 6 we are going to have to have a wage bill that reflects that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 33/1 with William Hill to be the next manager to leave does any one think it is a good bet? Next two games are away to Everton & Fulham, far from nice places to go. not with Hughes still at QPR. after he gets sacked he could be a tasty bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Not bad odds though. They have Fulham and Everton away next IIRC. If they lose both of them heavily, he will be under pressure. You can't expect to win at 33-1 but it's decent value. Personally, I think he'll turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 There are differences for sure, but then you can find differences between identical twins if you look hard enough. Sunderland would still be the best club to compare us to, and as such, it's a bit rich of us to sit here and rip Oneill apart while backing Lambert. Completely different situations though. O'Neill been there for almost a year now and things have steadily got worse. Lambert's only been since the summer and he's inherited a much tougher job. To build a team he wants? he built a team to compete in the upper echelons of the Premier League which is where we and at the time the owner wanted us to be. He spent 70-80 mill doing it and we have since recouped approx 60 mill by selling three of his signings. For that we got three sixth place finishes, competed for a top 4 finish till the last month of the season a couple of times, had a couple of good cup runs, played in Europe a few times and reigned supreme over our local rivals not losing a derby game during his tenure. All whilst having the 8th, 6th and 6th highest wage bill. A fair return I'd say. The fact that the club could not sustain having the 6th highest wage bill whilst finishing 6th I put down to the board. You can pretty much guarantee that your wage bill will pretty much reflect, with in a couple of league places, where you finish. Certainly in terms of the top half dozen places. You will of course get the odd case of over achievement. One things for sure if we are to again consistently finish amongst the top 6 we are going to have to have a wage bill that reflects that position. Mark, I've heard the stats a dozen times. However, they don't show everything. Yeah O'Neill did an alright job to get those sorts of finishes but there was no value for money whatsoever. His refusal to buy players from outside the Premier League meant that we had to pay a premium with almost every single purchase. High transfer fees and high wages. Some of these paid off (Milner, Young and Downing basically) but the majority didn't. You point out that we made a lot of money from those three players but we lost money on pretty much everyone else, and let's not forget that the one good season Downing did give us (thus boosting his price) wasn't even under O'Neill. Also, despite all the money that he spent the squad he left wasn't all that great. Ok it was decent but besides a good core of players there was not much else because as we all know O'Neill doesn't do squad rotation. He could've spent the vast sums of money he had a lot better and that's one of the main gripes people have with him. That and his insistence on playing the same 11 week in week out all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I liked MON when he was here. I did feel feel towards the end he really had run out of ideas - We were going to pay big bucks for aden mcgeady FFS. I didn't find the football boring - but increasingly teams has rumbled us - if we couldn't catch them on the counter that was pretty much it. Every manager will sign the odd dudd - but the likes of Heskey, Beye, looked destined to fail the day we brough them. It looks the tide is turning anyway - really good vid link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizme Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 ^^^^^^ Great watch. MON has once and for all been found out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Well, interesting to hear that from people not involved with Villa. Interesting to hear that they blame MON more than Randy for the situation we're in now, even though MON's the one who's charming to the press. Or maybe not always that charming. And as someone said earlier, if true that he let the players off untill Thursday after a Sunday game, then there's no wonder why some of them didn't like Houliier. Still, he is, or maybe was, a grat motivator for those who played. Probably not as much for those who didn't play. But we have Lambert now and I'm happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 So we all agree, Villa made MON look good for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hopefully he will take them down. O'Neill will jump ship before that happens. He wasn't going to get the same investment from Lerner to cover up the crap he had signed for us so he left and i can see the same happening with Blunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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