Ratings and reactions: Spurs 2-0 Villa

[joey55]

That's a huge discrepancy. I think I trust the BBC more than Murdoch though.

I believe the difference is that Sky only count the time the ball is in play, whilst the BBC stats source count all the time. So if a Spurs player kicked the ball out for a Villa goal kick, the moment the ball went over the line, the Sky stat source would stop the clock and not start in until the goal kick has been taken. Whilst the BBC source would count this period as Villa possession.

[markeefc]

I was going to write a damning piece on the most abject performance I think I have ever seen from a Villa team, but like the players last night, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED!!!!!!

[Harry]

The sad truth about last night's defeat is that is was all too reminiscent of those numerous occasions last season when Houllier sent out a team that looked beaten before the referee blew the first whistle. And like those worst days under Houllier, the players looked just as listless, disinterested and devoid of anything resembling belief.

Everyone always knew that McLeish would have his limitations, but many of us expected that at the very least any set of eleven players he sends out on a matchday would be well-organised and prepared to fight. The reality is that this doesn't happen and it now appears that we are left with the worst of both regimes - defensively poor, weak in possession, devoid of creativity, no leadership. On OR off the pitch.

The players clearly recognise this just as much as the fans do. And they know that when their manager sends them out with a right-back in one of the winger positions when he's struggling to find any degree of form in his natural role that they are playing for someone that has no confidence in their individual or collective ability to take on the opposition. Last night didn't feel all that removed from the white-flag waving attitude of last season's FA Cup exit to Man City or O'Neill's Europa League capitulation in Moscow back in 2009.

I feel like I've come full circle since the summer. I vehemently did not want Alex McLeish to be appointed and railed against the decision. I then accepted it and decided to give him a chance to prove the doubters wrong having been impressed by his generally honest, straight-talking approach. I tried to find positives in the early weeks of the season and encouraged others to see the benefit of an unbeaten start as being something to build upon. But with the high volume of underwhelming draws becoming increasingly frustrating, patience started to wear thin and ever since that woeful defeat to Bolton in the League Cup, the team shape, selection and performances have been almost uniformly dire. The inexcapable fact is that we play some of, if not the outright, worst football in the Premier League and when I think back on when I ultimately turned on McLeish, it will probably be the moment I saw Alan Hutton lining up on the right wing when orthodox wide players were available for selection. The fact that he still didn't even see fit to make any changes to a system that had led to us going two goals down at the break only serves to reinforce the impression that he has absolutely no idea of how to set up a team that needs to take a game to the opposition.

I feel like our curren eighth place standing in the League is due more to the ineptitude of the dozen teams below us than anything we have 'achieved' this season, and I can see nothing but apathy spreading among our supporters who simply expect underperformance for as long as McLeish is in charge.

Good post Alec. My feels entirely. I think your 'journey' with McLeish as our manager pretty much mirrors my own.

[NormandyVillan]

That's a huge discrepancy. I think I trust the BBC more than Murdoch though.

I believe the difference is that Sky only count the time the ball is in play, whilst the BBC stats source count all the time. So if a Spurs player kicked the ball out for a Villa goal kick, the moment the ball went over the line, the Sky stat source would stop the clock and not start in until the goal kick has been taken. Whilst the BBC source would count this period as Villa possession.

So Villa's "ball possession" would include the incredible amount of time spent holding the ball while preparing to take throw-ins. I don't know if this was because the players were time-wasting to hold onto a "respectable" 2-0 defeat (which is embarrassing), or just because they are as clueless with the ball in their hands as with the ball at their feet, and there is no one moving to receive the ball in a decent position.

Either way, it was as frustrating as hell. Thirty seconds of dithering around every time before basically throwing it back to Spurs via someone's head. My God we are crap...

[joey55]

That's a huge discrepancy. I think I trust the BBC more than Murdoch though.

I believe the difference is that Sky only count the time the ball is in play, whilst the BBC stats source count all the time. So if a Spurs player kicked the ball out for a Villa goal kick, the moment the ball went over the line, the Sky stat source would stop the clock and not start in until the goal kick has been taken. Whilst the BBC source would count this period as Villa possession.

So Villa's "ball possession" would include the incredible amount of time spent holding the ball while preparing to take throw-ins. I don't know if this was because the players were time-wasting to hold onto a "respectable" 2-0 defeat (which is embarrassing), or just because they are as clueless with the ball in their hands as with the ball at their feet, and there is no one moving to receive the ball in a decent position.

Either way, it was as frustrating as hell. Thirty seconds of dithering around every time before basically throwing it back to Spurs via someone's head. My God we are crap...

Not as much as the stats would suggest as first glance. The key is that roughly half of a football match is spent without the ball in play, which is a suprising, but true stat. The period when the ball is out of play is usually pretty evenly split, no matter if one team is dominating a game or not. This is for the simple reason that a team who forces the most corners, is also likely to be the team who puts the ball out the most for oppostion goal kick and so on. So before any game has started, you can predict that for half the time of the match (when the ball is out of play) the possession will be split reasonalby evenly.

So, say last night Spurs have 70% of the ball when in play and Villa 30% and out of play both teams had 50%, it explains the big descerpancy between stats sources. 70% + 50% / 2 is 60%, which is what the BBC gave Spurs for possession as they include the 50% of the time the ball is out of play, whilsy Sky only include time in play. The 10% difference in Villa stats between the 2 sources therefore doesn't mean they were dawdling on the ball when out of play. They might well have been, but the big difference in possession stats doesn't actually tell us that.

[cbr600rr]

when all said & done aston villa players 2011/2012 are just not good enough against 50% of the prem teams,aston villa have sold their best players year in & year out,mon tried to keep the best players & to be fair he did a bloody good job in doing it like harry has done, sorry but imho aston villa are & wont be for some years better off since mon left the building.

[wedge]

**** awful, I choose Bannan as MOTM as he was the only Villa player who looked composed on the ball and actually passed the ball to a player in a claret and blue shirt. Someone needs to tell AM that you have to attack to win football matches, we went there to try and keep the score down, even our line-up spoke volumes about how scared of Spurs we were, it's Tottenham not Barcelona FFS! Similar to our two crumbles at Eastlands last season under Houllier. An absolute disgrace that needs to change now!

[CI]

One of my lowest moments as a villa fan came hearing the spuds fans sing "are you west ham in disguise"

Really really upset

[Brumstopdogs]

Apparantly Tottenham's starting 11 cost them about £54m in transfer fees.

I wouldn't be surprised if ours cost something similar.

Just goes to show which club has spent wisely and which club hasn't.

[sir_gary_cahill]

Apparantly Tottenham's starting 11 cost them about £54m in transfer fees.

I wouldn't be surprised if ours cost something similar.

Just goes to show which club has spent wisely and which club hasn't.

that's crazy if true, they outclassed us to be honest

[TheDrums]

It really wasn't that hard to outclass us when we set our stall out so defensively. A Championship side would have outclassed us.

Your love affair with Spurs being the best thing since sliced bread is incredibly tedious and annoying.

[Mantis]

when all said & done aston villa players 2011/2012 are just not good enough against 50% of the prem teams,aston villa have sold their best players year in & year out,mon tried to keep the best players & to be fair he did a bloody good job in doing it like harry has done, sorry but imho aston villa are & wont be for some years better off since mon left the building.

I mostly agree with your assessment about us not being as good as a lot of Premier League teams because of our best players constantly leaving, but I don't like it when people try and make out that it was MON alone who held everything together. Look at Barry. MON couldn't keep hold of him. Look at Milner, he wasn't able to keep hold of him either.

[CI]

Did we pay £8m for Cuellar ?

[cbr600rr]

when all said & done aston villa players 2011/2012 are just not good enough against 50% of the prem teams,aston villa have sold their best players year in & year out,mon tried to keep the best players & to be fair he did a bloody good job in doing it like harry has done, sorry but imho aston villa are & wont be for some years better off since mon left the building.

I mostly agree with your assessment about us not being as good as a lot of Premier League teams because of our best players constantly leaving, but I don't like it when people try and make out that it was MON alone who held everything together. Look at Barry. MON couldn't keep hold of him. Look at Milner, he wasn't able to keep hold of him either.

i hear what your saying but mon dug in when liverpool came in for barry,mon decided to gamble on keeping gb for another season as i belive mon really thought he could get 4th which may have kept barry. the milner saga was possibly the reason why mon left,hence the position were in now.

[chappy]

I think had we kept Milner that summer we may have finished top4 last season

*runs for cover*

That sale really demoralised the whole club

[cbr600rr]

i think if barry would have stayed "another year" with milner in the middle too & ash/downing supplying gabby/bent we would have been a match for anyone..still the crying shame is..... ASTON VILLA have never kicked a ball in the champions league & mon got us bloody close,yes it cost us a few quid along the way but thats football,now we are having to spend & gamble on average types of players, just take a step back & think how much better the whole club was under mon untill randy pulled the rug for under mon stance.

[TRO]

Dire performance, but honestly what were people expecting?

We never win at Spurs anyway, plus when you consider Spurs are third in the league, with a wealth of international talent at their disposal, then realistically we didn't stand much of a chance.

Add to that, the fact that we sold our two best players in the summer,

coupled with Randy's reluctance to invest, and its going to be a long hard season.

IMO, even if McLeish goes, Randy still has to get his check book out, otherwise we're f@~ked!

I would suspect we had a few international players too.

[TRO]

Where are McLeishs supporters after that crap?

The same place as they were when we conceded 7 against Chelsea.

I'm not a Mcleish fans..... but I'm loathe to blame him for something that has been around our team for so long.

We can't hold the ball and we havn't been able to for years..... we look appallingly uncomfortable in possession.

There is little future for Aston Villa until we have players who can keep control of the ball.

Who decides the tactics?

Who plays Heskey in midfield?

Who puts Hutton in midfield?

Who refuses to play their £10m winger they bought in the summer even though he's played well his last two games?

Who refuses to make susbtitutions when we had 30% posession?

Will I go on?

The fact of the matter is the manager is paid to decide all that. The buck stops with him.

I suspect you could have put out any permutation of our squad and it would'nt have made any difference or little difference at that.

This team is devoid of any quality on the ball and that has manifested itself in to a distinct lack of confidence.

rearranging shit .....is still shit.

The problem lies at Bodymoor heath.

[TRO]

spurs are better than decent, they are a class football side

......and how long as it taken to assemble?

Its amazing what can be done in such a short space of time....if you know what your doing.

[TRO]

i think if barry would have stayed "another year" with milner in the middle too & ash/downing supplying gabby/bent we would have been a match for anyone..still the crying shame is..... ASTON VILLA have never kicked a ball in the champions league & mon got us bloody close,yes it cost us a few quid along the way but thats football,now we are having to spend & gamble on average types of players, just take a step back & think how much better the whole club was under mon untill randy pulled the rug for under mon stance.

Funny how Newcastle have lost some of their best players..... but instead of whinging and mopeing around have gone out a bought some decent low budget replacements.

AV Have become a bag of excuses.