Republic of Ireland

[packoman]

2-0 goals from Long and Brady.

[heffoman]

Personally I think it's time for Trap to go. We're to much of a small nation to have a manager who falls out with a lot of our up and coming player base.

McCarthy untill recently, Coleman until recently who has been criminally over looked for most of the games, McLean, our own Clark, Gibson and probably a few others.

Would you agree with the argument that the current crop of Irish players are simply not good enough and that even if Ferguson and Mourinho were in charge of Ireland they still would not do anything more then Trap?

I couldnt disagree more. Are you saying Trap is currently one of the best managers in the world? Even with our current crop of players we have far better players than some he persisted with. Ward is one example of this.

3-0 now against Oman

[packoman]

3-0 Doyle, lovely cross from Brady.

[packoman]

Long, Doyle, Coleman and Brady all played well tonight, also thought McClean looked good when he came on.

[Zatman]

Long, Doyle, Coleman and Brady all played well tonight, also thought McClean looked good when he came on.

and none will start vs Germany except maybe Doyle

[BOF]

Yeah Trap has confirmed McClean will not start against Germany. I'm done with that guy now. He's using personal grudges that are affecting Ireland's chances. It's unprofessional. We need the new generation to be gelling NOW. Piss off Trap, you've outstayed your welcome.

[dudevillaisnice]

Must've missed it but what did McClean do to annoy Trap? was it the twitter incident or something else?

[BOF]

The twitter incident has set him back; maybe even irreparably so. But it was triggered by sitting unjustifiably on the bench for months when he shouldn't have been. He shouldn't have made the outburst, but the scenario that triggered it was Trap's fault and that shouldn't have happened. We can lambast McClean for being immature and inexperienced and I believe the senior players did exactly that. But Trap needs to look at himself. We used 3 strikers on the wing against Kazakhstan and left our best winger (player?) on the bench while we barely scraped away with a win.

Trap should be lauded for getting us to a finals. But if McClean turns around and says screw you to the national setup then everyone's a loser in this. Trap loses his legacy, the people turn on McClean and the national side loses a very good player. His twitter outburst suggests to me that he's closer to saying that than we might hope. So Trap needs to go now, but he won't, because Delaney (head of the FAI) seems still to be starstruck by him.

[AVFCforever1991]

Its a shame you got Trap, because you have potentially quite a good team, Certainly good enough to qualify for the 2014 WC.

[BOF]

I don't think we're good enough to finish above Sweden in our group. Germany will win the group. But the point is that we are a lot better than Trap is making us look. I'd be happy if we were as good as we can be. Using our best players to their strengths in their rightful positions.

But anyone who tries to defend Trap will just say "well we wouldn't have finished above Sweden & Germany anyway" in some twisted attempt to say that it doesn't matter what we do in the meantime. Which completely misses the point. A team is always an evolution; a work in progress. This side will either make it or not to the 2014 WC but even if it doesn't, it would be in a better position for subsequent qualifications and tourneys. But at this rate we'll be starting completely from scratch for Euro 2016 because right now we're wasting time with past it players and outdated tactics with a manager that's using us as a pension.

[TheBear]

BOF I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to see that match last night as it wasn't on UK TV but I heard we played well for a, well, second string side.

I'd rather not go to the World Cup with that senior side and watch us play that way. The Euro's was a joke. We can't treat every tournament simply as a piss up. I hated us in Euro 2012. No heart, no ideas, dreadful and I'd rather we missed out on qualification that be put through them performances again. It is actually bad for your health to sit and watch a Trapattoni side these days and I'd rather we had a young, fresh side playing in the group stages, bedding them in, getting ready for tournaments of the future.

[AVFCforever1991]

But International tourneys are always better with the Irish!!!

[BOF]

For the fans yeah. But not with a Trap team on the pitch - as we saw in Pokraine.

[AVFCforever1991]

For the fans yeah. But not with a Trap team on the pitch - as we saw in Pokraine.

Yeah Agreed, maybe they should sack him and Hire Roy Keane

[Corcaigh]

I don't think we're good enough to finish above Sweden in our group. Germany will win the group. But the point is that we are a lot better than Trap is making us look. I'd be happy if we were as good as we can be. Using our best players to their strengths in their rightful positions.

I think we are as good as we look which is not brilliant, not terrible, just solid. And, taking into our account our qualifying record under Trap, I think we're pretty good, ugly yes, but results wise quite good. Yeah the Euro's were massively disappointing, but we're still a decent team who'll be there or thereabouts by the end of the qualifying series.

But anyone who tries to defend Trap will just say "well we wouldn't have finished above Sweden & Germany anyway" in some twisted attempt to say that it doesn't matter what we do in the meantime. Which completely misses the point.

Irrespective of who is Ireland manager and who is or who isn't in the first XI I would consider a group with Germany and Sweden to be a tough a group to qualify out of.

A team is always an evolution; a work in progress. This side will either make it or not to the 2014 WC but even if it doesn't, it would be in a better position for subsequent qualifications and tourneys. But at this rate we'll be starting completely from scratch for Euro 2016 because right now we're wasting time with past it players and outdated tactics with a manager that's using us as a pension.

What past it players are left in the first team? Keane and Dunne maybe, but I'd expect both of them to be pushed out of the team over the course of the campaign if neither is getting game time with Clark (hopefully) and Long replacing them.

Trap can be ruthless when he wants to be, witness the retirement of Kilbane. But using that as an example I'd fully expect the Irish media to have a go at Trap if he announced tomorrow he was dispensing with both players mentioned, cries of 'bad communication' and the like would no doubt be used from Fanning, Early, Sadlier et al.

With Robbie Keane in particular its a difficult one, he's made it clear in previous years if isn't a starter for Ireland then he's going to retire. Although I'd like Long to start ahead of him I still think Keane could be extremely useful for Ireland coming off the bench. And, with memories of his time at Villa still fresh, I don't think he's ''past it'' either.

All in all I'm happy to continue with Trap for the campaign and wish the Irish media and some supporters would let up on him.

[BOF]

I don't think we're good enough to finish above Sweden in our group. Germany will win the group. But the point is that we are a lot better than Trap is making us look. I'd be happy if we were as good as we can be. Using our best players to their strengths in their rightful positions.

I think we are as good as we look which is not brilliant, not terrible, just solid. And, taking into our account our qualifying record under Trap, I think we're pretty good, ugly yes, but results wise quite good. Yeah the Euro's were massively disappointing, but we're still a decent team who'll be there or thereabouts by the end of the qualifying series.

You think we're as good as we currently look. You think using Walters and Doyle on the wing is as good as we can be. You think McClean would not improve the side. You think hoofball is the extent of the abilities of players who (Stoke notwithstanding) don't even play that game for their clubs. Fair enough. I strongly disagree with you. I think you're a mile off to be frank.

But anyone who tries to defend Trap will just say "well we wouldn't have finished above Sweden & Germany anyway" in some twisted attempt to say that it doesn't matter what we do in the meantime. Which completely misses the point.

Irrespective of who is Ireland manager and who is or who isn't in the first XI I would consider a group with Germany and Sweden to be a tough a group to qualify out of.

Which is what I said, it IS a tough group but that misses the wider and more important point of building for the future.

A team is always an evolution; a work in progress. This side will either make it or not to the 2014 WC but even if it doesn't, it would be in a better position for subsequent qualifications and tourneys. But at this rate we'll be starting completely from scratch for Euro 2016 because right now we're wasting time with past it players and outdated tactics with a manager that's using us as a pension.

What past it players are left in the first team? Keane and Dunne maybe, but I'd expect both of them to be pushed out of the team over the course of the campaign if neither is getting game time with Clark (hopefully) and Long replacing them.

Not only past it in terms of age. I mean past it in terms of being first choice for the country. In that respect there are many who are. Most of whom are in midfield.

All in all I'm happy to continue with Trap for the campaign and wish the Irish media and some supporters would let up on him.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I for one think it's refreshing and encouraging that some are willing to look past the 3pts gained from a 2-1 win in Kazakhstan and can see that there are serious problems happening right now. There are problems beginning right now and it would be nice if for once we could nip them at the start before they turn into a disaster.

I'm not content to sell us short. We could and should be better than this side currently is. Hell, even that same first 11 could be better, never mind the improvements that Trap is dead against making to it.

[Corcaigh]

I don't think we're good enough to finish above Sweden in our group. Germany will win the group. But the point is that we are a lot better than Trap is making us look. I'd be happy if we were as good as we can be. Using our best players to their strengths in their rightful positions.

I think we are as good as we look which is not brilliant, not terrible, just solid. And, taking into our account our qualifying record under Trap, I think we're pretty good, ugly yes, but results wise quite good. Yeah the Euro's were massively disappointing, but we're still a decent team who'll be there or thereabouts by the end of the qualifying series.

You think we're as good as we currently look. You think using Walters and Doyle on the wing is as good as we can be. You think McClean would not improve the side. You think hoofball is the extent of the abilities of players who (Stoke notwithstanding) don't even play that game for their clubs. Fair enough. I strongly disagree with you. I think you're a mile off to be frank.

Re: Doyle playing out wide, he's played parts of his career there and can definitely do a job there. Indeed, I'm quite sure when he came onto the international scene originally he was played out wide the odd time? (am open to correction).

Re: McCLean, I'd like to see him in the team eventually, but he's blotted his copybook, just like Darron Gibson and Marc Wilson have. I don't think its acceptable for players, especially these two who were sitting on a bench or playing in the LOI until 12 months ago, from getting uppity, patience is a virtue, there time will come and all that.

To prove my point let's recall the case of James McCarthy, here he is now getting selected and will probably start against Germany.

But anyone who tries to defend Trap will just say "well we wouldn't have finished above Sweden & Germany anyway" in some twisted attempt to say that it doesn't matter what we do in the meantime. Which completely misses the point.

Irrespective of who is Ireland manager and who is or who isn't in the first XI I would consider a group with Germany and Sweden to be a tough a group to qualify out of. Which is what I said, it IS a tough group but that misses the wider and more important point of building for the future.

"building for the future" is such a loaded term tbh. I'm quite happy for the gradual introduction of players into a national side without upsetting the balance or making us uncompetitive. This is the way it should be done? Again witness the emergence of McCarthy this campaign, or the integration of Walters and Long in the previous campaign or Whelan and Andrews in the one prior to that to show that Trap does "build for the future".

Tbh BOF the kind of radical "building for the future" you propose evokes how Stan went about selecting his squads and first teams, what with throwing players in at the deep end and seeing if they sink or swim. I don't want that and I'm sure you don't either.

As an example, look at Seamy Coleman last night, not great, not terrible but still raw. Many have been clamouring for the guy to be in the first team for important game's and been harshly critical for Trap for not doing so. Same with Clark, there's still plenty of Ireland supporters who keep on banging on about him being Ireland's next Left Back.

Both these guys need time and regular first team football before they come into the Ireland XI for the big games, I don't think its a crime on Trap's part for not selecting them.

A team is always an evolution; a work in progress. This side will either make it or not to the 2014 WC but even if it doesn't, it would be in a better position for subsequent qualifications and tourneys. But at this rate we'll be starting completely from scratch for Euro 2016 because right now we're wasting time with past it players and outdated tactics with a manager that's using us as a pension.

What past it players are left in the first team? Keane and Dunne maybe, but I'd expect both of them to be pushed out of the team over the course of the campaign if neither is getting game time with Clark (hopefully) and Long replacing them.

Not only past it in terms of age. I mean past it in terms of being first choice for the country. In that respect there are many who are. Most of whom are in midfield.

I think both Andrews and Whelan can still do a job for us. Hopefully McCarthy will enhance our midfield.

All in all I'm happy to continue with Trap for the campaign and wish the Irish media and some supporters would let up on him.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I for one think it's refreshing and encouraging that some are willing to look past the 3pts gained from a 2-1 win in Kazakhstan and can see that there are serious problems happening right now. There are problems beginning right now and it would be nice if for once we could nip them at the start before they turn into a disaster.

I'm not content to sell us short. We could and should be better than this side currently is. Hell, even that same first 11 could be better, never mind the improvements that Trap is dead against making to it.

Fair enough BOF you're vehemently anti-Trap and I doubt I'm going to change your opinion. I'm still going to stick up for him and wish the team well. See you at Lansdowne Rd. in October

*I note in my editing I seem to have parsed the relevant bits of BOF's quotes which I'm replying to, my bad, apologies etc.

[BOF]

But you're not reading my whole posts. I said above that McClean blotted his copybook MONTHS after he should have already been given a fair chance in the side. How often do you kick a dog before it's justified in biting back? Do you then blame the dog? McClean's tweet was ill-advised exasperation. That doesn't mean we can't look at the reasons behind it. And I HAVE changed my mind, only a few weeks back. So you're wrong on that. I was fine with Trap and now I'm not. I've been where you are and had a think about it. You don't seem to address what I'm writing. Perhaps you don't want to think the unthinkable :? Doyle was not a winger. Walters is not a winger. Long is not a winger. It would be acceptable if we didn't HAVE wingers in their stead but we do. And even that ignores his dinosaur tactics.

The point is that these NEW players like to get the ball down and play. Sure, Dunne, Duff & Keane played at a time when long ball was fairly common so they knew about it and how to do it even if they didn't employ it themselves. But these guys don't play it. If we're going to stick with Trap at a time when there's a generational shift happening in the Irish squad then we're sacrificing some quality players so as to have a 'name' manager. Some people know when to leave a position. Some don't. And with all due respect to Trapattoni, I don't expect a 73 year old man to learn new tricks at this stage, so while he's here we're going to be fed shit football by players that are capable of more. It's a **** shame is what it is.

And now we're playing England in a friendly. So they'll get to see the shit we have to watch. I can only apologise in advance.

[Zatman]

Sweden struggle at home to Kazakhstan last night and are not really that good. We can get points off them and player for player we wouldnt be that far off them. They have Zlatan which probably makes them a little better on paper.

they had Safra, Granqvist and Lustig in their back 4 and they probably wouldnt even get in Ireland team

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Get rid of Trap, and bring in... uh... hm.

'Arry!