Republic of Ireland

[Zatman]

Just now, VillaChris said:

Wasn't it the same v Bosnia. People said ROI had no chance against Dzeko, Ibisevic and Pjanic even though Bosnia had a very underwhelming group and finished below Wales. IIRC ROI comfortably won that tie.

I can certainly see ROI scoring in Denmark and being capable of getting a 1-1. Big favourites to progress if that happens.

but lots of people in Ireland I have heard or read are thinking the opposite that this is a foregone conclusion because we got Denmark

[VillaChris]

Just now, Zatman said:

but lots of people in Ireland I have heard or read are thinking the opposite that this is a foregone conclusion because we got Denmark

It was more you playing "we've got no chance" card as you don't want to see MON masterminding another against the odds finals appearance. Could be wrong though.

Would be interesting to see how the Danes are approaching this from their perspective. I would imagine they'd see this as a 50/50 tie which I would agree with.

[YLN]

If eh any of you fellows have a spare ticket or two for the Denmark home match, please do get in touch

[Zatman]

Mon is hinting that Declan Rice is about to do a Jack and declare for England

[BOF]

JOE starting to write articles well worth reading these days.  Here's the 2nd one I've noticed in the past few days.

Reaction to Declan Rice fiasco highlights a deeper problem with Irish nationalism

Quote

Declan Rice is quickly starting to look like another one that got away.

The West Ham centre-half/central midfielder was not named in Martin O'Neill's most recent Ireland squad, and the boss confirmed that he is taking some time to consider the possibility of playing for England instead. Rice has already played three friendlies for Ireland.

Upon hearing the news, Kevin Kilbane, a dedicated servant to the Irish national team with 110 caps, took to Twitter to give his all for Ireland once more. This time, it involved going in studs-up on the 19-year-old Rice.

Kilbane wrote: "I’d rather be ranked 150th in the world and never qualify again than have someone who has played, but needs time to THINK whether they should play for us again". He was quickly backed up by current international James McClean, who affirmed his views as "bang on".

The consensus among Irish football fans, by and large, is that Declan Rice is a traitor to the cause, and should never play for Ireland again — even if by some chance he decides not to declare for England.

There's a lot to consider here. First must be that Declan Rice is 19. He's so young that he can't even remember Saipan. He can't be expected to have any great grá for the more magical moments of Ireland's footballing past — he can't remember any of them.

Second, we are, quite simply, not very good. You might even say that we're bad. England, on the other hand, are a cornucopia of youth and vigour and excitement, led by a manager who seems to do things besides get into rows with Tony O'Donoghue.

So far, Rice is not good enough to get anywhere near their side, but he's only 19. You couldn't rule it out. With his status as an English international, he'll command higher wages, higher transfer fees and own a far more lucrative personal brand.

But all footballing considerations aside, we simply have no right to render such a judgment. Why? Well, because... Declan Rice is English.

Irish people are fiercely nationalistic. No more so than when the English are claiming one of our own for themselves. Whether its Barry Keoghan, Cillian Murphy, Katie Taylor or Conor McGregor, our outrage is always piqued when that old English ignorance rears its head — usually soon after an Irish person has tasted some success on the world stage.

Still, we will readily embrace rugby players like Bundee Aki and CJ Stander to our collective bosom, even though somewhere far away, their countrymen surely feel hard done by that they've chosen to play for a country where they've only lived for a couple of years.

James McClean himself, it could be noted, played several games for the Northern Ireland under-21s side before ultimately deciding that he would rather play for Ireland. Why? Probably because expecting him to have his mind made up about what the right choice for him, both personally and professionally, by the age of 18 or 19 is patently ridiculous.

Our ears prick up when we hear that decent but limited talents, such as Callum Wilson, are considering declaring for Ireland — knowing full well that we'll back them to the hilt. Born Englishman Jonathan Walters knows that better than anybody.

Ray Houghton. John Aldridge. Jon Walters. Andy Townsend. Chris Hughton. Mick McCarthy. We're lying to ourselves if we believe that we were Plan A for all these guys from the day they were born. They made a decision that was in their best interests, and it just so happened to be in Ireland's best interests too.

Not a single player who scored in Ireland's famous Italia '90 penalty shootout with Romania was born in Ireland. When you go to the Granny Rule well as often as we do, you can't really be all that aggrieved that once or twice it leaves you high and dry.

How many ways can we expect to have it? If we're going to be brazen enough to call Daniel Day-Lewis Irish just because he moved here and seems to like it quite a lot, then we might have to relax our expectations of other English people who might not be quite as in love with their ancestral roots. Particularly children. The Granny Rule cuts both ways.

It shouldn't need pointing out that relying on the thin filial bonds of a teenager to the country of his ancestors is not a sound strategy for footballing success.

Declan Rice, much like Jack Grealish before him, is English. He was born and raised in England and he's eligible to play for Ireland through his Corkonian grandparents.

We're not just talking about mislabelling someone on a Sky News chyron or an uneducated BBC news anchor who doesn't know where Wexford is. We're asking for a pledge of allegiance from somebody who doesn't actually owe us any.

We would be remiss in overlooking the shameful part being played by West Ham owner David Gold, who has chosen to publicly exert pressure over such a young player. While Declan Rice will ultimately make his own decisions, for the owner of his club to prejudice the situation to that degree is despicable.

That being said, the vitriol that has been turned his way by some Ireland fans is little better. The argument is that Ireland should never be a Plan B, that every player should be proud to pull on his country's jersey, really only if Ireland really is the player's country.

When we are so obsessed with and possessive of our own Irishness, how can we possibly judge an English man who wants to be English?

It is a good thing to welcome everyone who wants to be Irish. It is a bad thing to throw it back in their faces if they decide not to be.

Declan Rice isn't a traitor. It doesn't matter that he kissed the Irish crest. Sure, football could use fewer overwrought displays of loyalty — but that didn't start with Declan Rice and it certainly won't finish with him.

We're proud to be the Plan B team when it suits us. When it means we might snag the Callum Wilsons or even the Mark Nobles of this world. Players will see us as a Plan B team until we stop seeing ourselves that way.

Maybe that's something that can finish with this whole sorry saga.

 

[villa4europe]

yeah good article that i agree with but it skirts over something...he's played 3 times for them already...the youth level stuff i personally dont mind and i dont mind his dual eligibility and when he's young and developing playing for either as he finds his level but when you've been capped at senior level that should be that

and to be fair to the lad there's a couple of sly digs about MON in that article, there should be a massive one, he's thrown him under the bus, he's actually made it very hard for him to go back to ireland

[Zatman]

MON said the same thing about the guy from Reading and made similar comments yet the player said he wasnt fit. 

[Zatman]

9 goals conceded in2 competitive games. Nice to see footballs biggest conman exposed

[villa4europe]

if ever people need some of their problems put in perspective you should tell them bruce is your club manager and MON is your national team manager

you would have orphans shedding tears for you

MON will still be linked to every PL job going and walk in to a cushy number when they finally bullet him, the mans a myth

Edited September 6, 2018 by villa4europe

[Zatman]

Callum Robinson the only player that started that showed anything. Rest are a joke

Ciaran Clark makes Jedi look good

[BOF]

14 hours ago, villa4europe said:

if ever people need some of their problems put in perspective you should tell them bruce is your club manager and MON is your national team manager

[bannedfromHandV]

Wales were pretty bloody fantastic though last night.

I know you had a shite team out but we looked capable of ripping them to pieces every time we went forward.

4-1 probably flattered Ireland with all due respect.

[BOF]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

Wales were pretty bloody fantastic though last night.

I know you had a shite team out but we looked capable of ripping them to pieces every time we went forward.

4-1 probably flattered Ireland with all due respect.

It probably did.  It was a perfect storm last night.  Wales at home in good form with their best players available probably would have won that match no matter who played for us.  The fact we turned up missing a few better players from an already mediocre squad, and with a seeming fractiousness in the air with the negativity surrounding Keane, and we were always getting a hiding.  Wales took perfect advantage of the night.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

It probably did.  It was a perfect storm last night.  Wales at home in good form with their best players available probably would have won that match no matter who played for us.  The fact we turned up missing a few better players from an already mediocre squad, and with a seeming fractiousness in the air with the negativity surrounding Keane, and we were always getting a hiding.  Wales took perfect advantage of the night.

Hourihane was scarily non-existent too.

Was he hauled off at half time?

Took me til the 70th minute to notice Chester wasn't playing either......

[Zatman]

Players Ireland are missing was Arter, Maguire, Rice, McClean, Long, Brady, McCarthy, Scott Hogan

Its hardly great players and Wales would have beaten us anyway especially with the MON tactics. Denmark futsal team would beat us

[BOF]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Hourihane was scarily non-existent too.

Was he hauled off at half time?

Took me til the 70th minute to notice Chester wasn't playing either......

I was half watching tbh.  Seems he came off on 57 for the goalscorer, Shaun Williams.  Nice finish from him in fairness.  Composed.

[BOF]

Just now, Zatman said:

Players Ireland are missing was Arter, Maguire, Rice, McClean, Long, Brady, McCarthy, Scott Hogan

Its hardly great players and Wales would have beaten us anyway especially with the MON tactics. Denmark futsal team would beat us

Yep Wales were winning it anyway as I said, but given the dearth of quality available to Ireland at the moment, you must admit that list of players above would have improved what we had on the pitch.

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Hourihane was scarily non-existent too.

Was he hauled off at half time?

Took me til the 70th minute to notice Chester wasn't playing either......

was his first competitive game and he was left isolated. Hendrick was useless and missing a Glenn Whelan or Meyler to let him go forward

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, BOF said:

Yep Wales were winning it anyway as I said, but given the dearth of quality available to Ireland at the moment, you must admit that list of players above would have improved what we had on the pitch.

We probably wouldnt have got hammered, might have scraped a 1-0 defeat if we were lucky. I think the players though showed no character or fight last night which is opposite of a MON team where players run there socks off

Maybe the players are sick of the shit management team

as for Ciaran Clark retire son, football is not for you. McShane like performance

[BOF]

Just now, Zatman said:

We probably wouldnt have got hammered, might have scraped a 1-0 defeat if we were lucky. I think the players though showed no character or fight last night which is opposite of a MON team where players run there socks off

Maybe the players are sick of the shit management team

as for Ciaran Clark retire son, football is not for you. McShane like performance

Yeah we're agreeing here.  I said at the outset that we'd lose regardless.  As for the effort.  UEFA can tart it up all they want.  At the end of the day it's a friendly in the minds of most of the players. If you're not qualifying for a major tournament then you're basically avoiding injury 'til you get back to your day job.