The retrenchment of expenses plan and the future

[maqroll]

I predict he'll sell the club within five years, to try to break even. Hopefully he finds a suitable owner who has more of a bankroll.

Lerner gets a lot of stick, but he should be commended for giving it an honest go. To his credit, he went for broke trying to crack the top 4. And we came so close. And we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Milner, Young and Downing would all still be here, and we'd have enough money to revamp the back four and buy a top striker.

But Lerner also transformed BH, the Holte Hotel, did the Acorns deal, all very positive things for Aston Villa.

But at the end of the day, it's the results that matter most, and it was results that almost saw us get relegated. Not part of the "Five Year Plan", I'm pretty certain of that.

He was too naive on football matters, too starstruck with MON, and it's come back to burn him.

In fact, it's all blown up in his face. He can't be having too much joy when he gazes over 10,000 empty seats. But he hasn't helped himself by hiring AM, has he?

I think he and Faulkner are in a bit over their heads, and for the big step forward we took initially, with them in charge, we've taken two steps back, and I can't see us doing much more than languishing around mid table every year, and having annual player upheaval destroy any sense of continuity for the club.

He WILL sell, but it's anyone's guess as to when. I doubt it's imminent, though.

[dukes]

1. The key question asked is, "Will Randy support AM during transfer window?" The answer can be given in two parts 1) When has Randy not supported his Manager? and 2) Yes, Randy will support AM. He will support AM as he has supported all of his Managers...he will work to keep the wage bill at a manageable level and, at the same time, will recognize where the Club needs to be strengthened and support the Manager in meeting those needs.

on 4th July

1. Ginko, I am not sure what a "clear sign" would entail? I would think that Randy's willingness to splash cash at every window is some indication of a clear sign of where he wants the Club to go. .

30 May

So Dukes 2 recent quotes that mention the transfer window - that closes in a few days

Well, i'd say he has supported AM, Friedel went, we bought in a younger, hungrier keeper in Given (and probably on bigger wages).

Downing went, and we bought in N'Zogbia.

Young has left and now we're looking to bring in other players.

I believe the support for the manager is there, but I think the board learned that you can't just blindly back your manager without considering the effect on the bottom line. I also believe AM was totally aware of what was required when he took the job.

[makouns_grin]

I predict he'll sell the club within five years, to try to break even. Hopefully he finds a suitable owner who has more of a bankroll.

Which automatically means a good owner in villa fans eyes.

Spending money means success.

[Ulver]

Well, i'd say he has supported AM.

Are you for real ?

The vast banks of empty seats would appear to suggest you're on your own in that view.

Since the end of last season, a season where we flirted with relegation until the VERY end we've lost the following first teamers ...

Friedel, Young, Downing, Young, Walker, Reo Coker

That's six of the 'better' players from a side that nearly got itself relegated

In any sane view, the team needed strengthening on top of what we had when those 6 were here, what we've done is took a struggling side lost 6 players from it and expected to do better with 2 incomings

What about the rest ?

We havent even stood still. We've lost over half the first 11 from a poor side and not done anything to strengthen it for this season.

If Randy couldn't spend anymore, then he should've been honest and not let his board send out mixed messages. As it is, we're now about 27m in credit from the sales of Young, Young and Downing alone, not to mention the much lighter wage bill from all the others we've lost

So, they appoint a manger nobody wanted (but who i'm sure 99% of us are now firmly behind) and say he will be backed. WHEN will he be backed?.

To me being backed means being allowed to improve on what he inherited. That would mean spending at LEAST what we've bought in from sales to give him at the very least a fighting chance to succeed.

In fact i think a budget of 10m on TOP of what we've received would've been fair even on a modest housekeeping watch.

To sum up, the board have well and truly **** off a vast amount of supporters this summer and once that happens you'll do well to get them back through the gates. All the offers for cheap tickets for the first two games haven't swayed folks into comng back and i suspect the only thing that will is a board doing what they said they would.

Either back 'their' man or sell up and let someone else have a go.

[dukes]

Well, i'd say he has supported AM.

Are you for real ?

The vast banks of empty seats would appear to suggest you're on your own in that view.

Since the end of last season, a season where we flirted with relegation until the VERY end we've lost the following first teamers ...

Friedel, Young, Downing, Young, Walker, Reo Coker

That's six of the 'better' players from a side that nearly got itself relegated

In any sane view, the team needed strengthening on top of what we had when those 6 were here, what we've done is took a struggling side lost 6 players from it and expected to do better with 2 incomings

What about the rest ?

We havent even stood still. We've lost over half the first 11 from a poor side and not done anything to strengthen it for this season.

If Randy couldn't spend anymore, then he should've been honest and not let his board send out mixed messages. As it is, we're now about 27m in credit from the sales of Young, Young and Downing alone, not to mention the much lighter wage bill from all the others we've lost

So, they appoint a manger nobody wanted (but who i'm sure 99% of us are now firmly behind) and say he will be backed. WHEN will he be backed?.

To me being backed means being allowed to improve on what he inherited. That would mean spending at LEAST what we've bought in from sales to give him at the very least a fighting chance to succeed.

In fact i think a budget of 10m on TOP of what we've received would've been fair even on a modest housekeeping watch.

To sum up, the board have well and truly **** off a vast amount of supporters this summer and once that happens you'll do well to get them back through the gates. All the offers for cheap tickets for the first two games haven't swayed folks into comng back and i suspect the only thing that will is a board doing what they said they would.

Either back 'their' man or sell up and let someone else have a go.

I explained why i think they are backing him. AM knew the situation when he signed for us, he made that clear in his press conference.

The players you state as having left an deed replacing i disagree on, Firedel has been replaced by younger better keeper. Walker, was a liability in defence, but good going forward, I think Herd and Lichaj are better defenders than him. Downing has been replaced by N'Zogbia, Reo Coker is yet to be replaced, but ha sharply been a permanent fixture in the first team the last 4 years, and his passing was atrocious. Luke Young, was invariably injured or just not good enough, similar to Walker int hat he's probably better going forward than he is in defence.

So IMO we need to replace Ashley Young, how the hell do you do that with a few cotton reals and buttons ?

I think the board would agree that the team needs strengthening, but i think their priority for this season is addressing the wage bill, and that's why we're in a period of transition.

[Robbie09]

I predict he'll sell the club within five years, to try to break even. Hopefully he finds a suitable owner who has more of a bankroll.

Lerner gets a lot of stick, but he should be commended for giving it an honest go. To his credit, he went for broke trying to crack the top 4. And we came so close. And we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Milner, Young and Downing would all still be here, and we'd have enough money to revamp the back four and buy a top striker.

But Lerner also transformed BH, the Holte Hotel, did the Acorns deal, all very positive things for Aston Villa.

But at the end of the day, it's the results that matter most, and it was results that almost saw us get relegated. Not part of the "Five Year Plan", I'm pretty certain of that.

He was too naive on football matters, too starstruck with MON, and it's come back to burn him.

In fact, it's all blown up in his face. He can't be having too much joy when he gazes over 10,000 empty seats. But he hasn't helped himself by hiring AM, has he?

I think he and Faulkner are in a bit over their heads, and for the big step forward we took initially, with them in charge, we've taken two steps back, and I can't see us doing much more than languishing around mid table every year, and having annual player upheaval destroy any sense of continuity for the club.

He WILL sell, but it's anyone's guess as to when. I doubt it's imminent, though.

Good post

[cbr600rr]

i think rl is in it long term,you may find AM might want to look at the squad,give every one a fair crack & then buy the correct players for villa.

[OnlyOne]

I explained why i think they are backing him. AM knew the situation when he signed for us, he made that clear in his press conference.

The players you state as having left an deed replacing i disagree on, Firedel has been replaced by younger better keeper. Walker, was a liability in defence, but good going forward, I think Herd and Lichaj are better defenders than him. Downing has been replaced by N'Zogbia, Reo Coker is yet to be replaced, but ha sharply been a permanent fixture in the first team the last 4 years, and his passing was atrocious. Luke Young, was invariably injured or just not good enough, similar to Walker int hat he's probably better going forward than he is in defence.

So IMO we need to replace Ashley Young, how the hell do you do that with a few cotton reals and buttons ?

I think the board would agree that the team needs strengthening, but i think their priority for this season is addressing the wage bill, and that's why we're in a period of transition.

That's the most clutched straw post I've ever seen.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Tough to shake a kind of lethargy though. I just have this feeling we are drifting into another no mans land season. Not going to get relegated but not going to be in europe. Tough to get excited to be honest.

Thats not just us it has to be said, unless you support a Manchester team, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal or Chelsea there is very little to get excited about this year. Whats the point? All the Europe spots are taken and money buys the league so there is no hope of even dreaming of that.

Shrug. The Premier League feels pretty stratified this year particularly given the tedium of what appears to be another ManU win.

[steaknchips]

I would prefer Randy and co' to stay...I have liked them as owners of the club and also liked Krulak and the way he uses the forums etc...They ain't bad people by any means. I would just like them to get better advisors on board for decision making...The McLeish appointment was very poor decision making. The throwing money at MON was also poor decision making. As was releasing Houllier and all the back room staff. We should have stuck with them over the summer and this pre-season, see how things lie...We have wasted far too much money in paying off past managers and Blues for poaching McLeish etc...Its all poor decision making by the advisors they have on board.

[moose]

I actually pity anyone who owns a football club these days. Even the billionaire Russians and Arabs, their money means nothing in football unless the club they own turns out the results.

If they don't spend, buying big name players on eight figure transfer fees and six figure a week salaries (please, stand back for a second and actually think about the enormity of paying someone that much money a WEEK), then the "fans" (yes, quotation marks) won't turn up - and if the fans don't turn up they can't afford to buy/pay the players.

Are there REAL fans any more or just lots of people who expect an enormously rich person to p*ss their personal wealth up the wall with the sole aim of making a bunch of disillusioned people in a far away town feel superior for 90 minutes a week by being able to gloat that "they" have spent £400bn on players and are paying them enough to redeem the entire national debt of Greece in under 3 months?

RL is clearly doing what needs to be done, putting Villa on a stable financial footing and avoiding it getting into a situation where we end up bankrupt, or entirely reliant on an owner to prop its aspirations up.

Even the Glazers, with their banknote-printing stake in one of the world's richest clubs are now having to sell of a portion of their riches to get their debts to a more manageable level.

Some more points...

We were not about £24m in the red in the Jan transfer window? £18m up front for Bent and £6m for Makoun? In the summer we recouped this by selling Young and Downing, less the fees for Given and N'Zogbia. I am pretty sure that Bent's signing in January was made with money we expected to get back by the sale of Young. In 2011 the transfer window has seen the club not actually get much richer or poorer from transfer fees. We've saved a lot on wages with the outgoing players but it was on the cards that the wage bill had to decrease.

Next - when we're getting 30,000 crowds for a local derby then it's no bloody wonder they're cutting costs. Surely this is going to lead to an ever decreasing spiral? Less fans means less revenue means we have to save costs and less to spend on players to get those fans back..... etc etc

I honestly don't think we have a bad squad all things considered. If the fans are going to overlook the development of Bannan, Albrighton, Herd, Delph, Lichaj, et al in favour of the "delights" of spending millions of pounds on "big name" signings then god help us. Personally I think N'Zogbia's looked like a complete waste of £9.5m so far this summer but hey since he cost us lots of money he must be good, right?

If the club is sold, then I honestly thing we are NOT going to get an owner who cares more about the club's future than Lerner. He might have had a hard lesson in football not being a money-maker, but at least he's tried. An Arab billionaire buying the club would be a disaster in the long term, make no mistake.

[dukes]

That's the most clutched straw post I've ever seen.

Excellent well reasoned argument.

[dukes]

I actually pity anyone who owns a football club these days. Even the billionaire Russians and Arabs, their money means nothing in football unless the club they own turns out the results.

If they don't spend, buying big name players on eight figure transfer fees and six figure a week salaries (please, stand back for a second and actually think about the enormity of paying someone that much money a WEEK), then the "fans" (yes, quotation marks) won't turn up - and if the fans don't turn up they can't afford to buy/pay the players.

Are there REAL fans any more or just lots of people who expect an enormously rich person to p*ss their personal wealth up the wall with the sole aim of making a bunch of disillusioned people in a far away town feel superior for 90 minutes a week by being able to gloat that "they" have spent £400bn on players and are paying them enough to redeem the entire national debt of Greece in under 3 months?

RL is clearly doing what needs to be done, putting Villa on a stable financial footing and avoiding it getting into a situation where we end up bankrupt, or entirely reliant on an owner to prop its aspirations up.

Even the Glazers, with their banknote-printing stake in one of the world's richest clubs are now having to sell of a portion of their riches to get their debts to a more manageable level.

Some more points...

We were not about £24m in the red in the Jan transfer window? £18m up front for Bent and £6m for Makoun? In the summer we recouped this by selling Young and Downing, less the fees for Given and N'Zogbia. I am pretty sure that Bent's signing in January was made with money we expected to get back by the sale of Young. In 2011 the transfer window has seen the club not actually get much richer or poorer from transfer fees. We've saved a lot on wages with the outgoing players but it was on the cards that the wage bill had to decrease.

Next - when we're getting 30,000 crowds for a local derby then it's no bloody wonder they're cutting costs. Surely this is going to lead to an ever decreasing spiral? Less fans means less revenue means we have to save costs and less to spend on players to get those fans back..... etc etc

I honestly don't think we have a bad squad all things considered. If the fans are going to overlook the development of Bannan, Albrighton, Herd, Delph, Lichaj, et al in favour of the "delights" of spending millions of pounds on "big name" signings then god help us. Personally I think N'Zogbia's looked like a complete waste of £9.5m so far this summer but hey since he cost us lots of money he must be good, right?

If the club is sold, then I honestly thing we are NOT going to get an owner who cares more about the club's future than Lerner. He might have had a hard lesson in football not being a money-maker, but at least he's tried. An Arab billionaire buying the club would be a disaster in the long term, make no mistake.

Great post, I totally agree.

[gilbertoAVFC]

I actually pity anyone who owns a football club these days. Even the billionaire Russians and Arabs, their money means nothing in football unless the club they own turns out the results.

If they don't spend, buying big name players on eight figure transfer fees and six figure a week salaries (please, stand back for a second and actually think about the enormity of paying someone that much money a WEEK), then the "fans" (yes, quotation marks) won't turn up - and if the fans don't turn up they can't afford to buy/pay the players.

Are there REAL fans any more or just lots of people who expect an enormously rich person to p*ss their personal wealth up the wall with the sole aim of making a bunch of disillusioned people in a far away town feel superior for 90 minutes a week by being able to gloat that "they" have spent £400bn on players and are paying them enough to redeem the entire national debt of Greece in under 3 months?

RL is clearly doing what needs to be done, putting Villa on a stable financial footing and avoiding it getting into a situation where we end up bankrupt, or entirely reliant on an owner to prop its aspirations up.

Even the Glazers, with their banknote-printing stake in one of the world's richest clubs are now having to sell of a portion of their riches to get their debts to a more manageable level.

Some more points...

We were not about £24m in the red in the Jan transfer window? £18m up front for Bent and £6m for Makoun? In the summer we recouped this by selling Young and Downing, less the fees for Given and N'Zogbia. I am pretty sure that Bent's signing in January was made with money we expected to get back by the sale of Young. In 2011 the transfer window has seen the club not actually get much richer or poorer from transfer fees. We've saved a lot on wages with the outgoing players but it was on the cards that the wage bill had to decrease.

Next - when we're getting 30,000 crowds for a local derby then it's no bloody wonder they're cutting costs. Surely this is going to lead to an ever decreasing spiral? Less fans means less revenue means we have to save costs and less to spend on players to get those fans back..... etc etc

I honestly don't think we have a bad squad all things considered. If the fans are going to overlook the development of Bannan, Albrighton, Herd, Delph, Lichaj, et al in favour of the "delights" of spending millions of pounds on "big name" signings then god help us. Personally I think N'Zogbia's looked like a complete waste of £9.5m so far this summer but hey since he cost us lots of money he must be good, right?

If the club is sold, then I honestly thing we are NOT going to get an owner who cares more about the club's future than Lerner. He might have had a hard lesson in football not being a money-maker, but at least he's tried. An Arab billionaire buying the club would be a disaster in the long term, make no mistake.

Great post, I totally agree.

x2

[steve-67]

Next - when we're getting 30,000 crowds for a local derby then it's no bloody wonder they're cutting costs. Surely this is going to lead to an ever decreasing spiral? Less fans means less revenue means we have to save costs and less to spend on players to get those fans back..... etc etc

The board made a rod for their own back. They are quite rightly making up for the mistakes of the past. However, fans want to see new faces and good football, we have neither and football is an entertainment business. If there is nothing on at the cinema, you don't go. I agree with the majority of the post but just wanted to make this point.

[Denis_B]

moose some good points but consider the following - we know we are not owned by Arabs and Russians we know we are owned by someone who WAS a $billionaire - and now isn't probably even that.

Consider for a minute where the expectations of the fans might have originated from - was it the first manager he appointed talking of Champions League?

Was it the club talking of the 5 year plan to achieve the Champions League?

Was it the expecations raised by comments about supporting the manager no matter what?

Was it the comments about imagining what Eck could do with Randys backing

Was it the promise of action some months back that never actually occured?

These expectations were deliberatley raised by the club and they have now backed down - WITHOUT EXPLANATION - and now people, like me, are thinking what the feck is going on? Was it a ploy to sell STs?

An honest statement from the club so we all knew exactly where we stand would help but this bloody silence, withdrawing the only mouth piece they had from the websites means people will understandably think twice about what is going on.

If we could see the rationale in where we are going then that might just get some waverers back supporting the club but I fear the pr/spin etc has been done to death and certain people at the club don't know what to do or say.

Rant over....back to you guys to disect

As for todays piss poor attendace remember old puzzle - 'What came first? The chicken or the egg?' Are the attendances the chicken emerging from the egg laid by Lerner?

[andyh]

I actually pity anyone who owns a football club these days. Even the billionaire Russians and Arabs, their money means nothing in football unless the club they own turns out the results.

If they don't spend, buying big name players on eight figure transfer fees and six figure a week salaries (please, stand back for a second and actually think about the enormity of paying someone that much money a WEEK), then the "fans" (yes, quotation marks) won't turn up - and if the fans don't turn up they can't afford to buy/pay the players.

Are there REAL fans any more or just lots of people who expect an enormously rich person to p*ss their personal wealth up the wall with the sole aim of making a bunch of disillusioned people in a far away town feel superior for 90 minutes a week by being able to gloat that "they" have spent £400bn on players and are paying them enough to redeem the entire national debt of Greece in under 3 months?

RL is clearly doing what needs to be done, putting Villa on a stable financial footing and avoiding it getting into a situation where we end up bankrupt, or entirely reliant on an owner to prop its aspirations up.

Even the Glazers, with their banknote-printing stake in one of the world's richest clubs are now having to sell of a portion of their riches to get their debts to a more manageable level.

Some more points...

We were not about £24m in the red in the Jan transfer window? £18m up front for Bent and £6m for Makoun? In the summer we recouped this by selling Young and Downing, less the fees for Given and N'Zogbia. I am pretty sure that Bent's signing in January was made with money we expected to get back by the sale of Young. In 2011 the transfer window has seen the club not actually get much richer or poorer from transfer fees. We've saved a lot on wages with the outgoing players but it was on the cards that the wage bill had to decrease.

Next - when we're getting 30,000 crowds for a local derby then it's no bloody wonder they're cutting costs. Surely this is going to lead to an ever decreasing spiral? Less fans means less revenue means we have to save costs and less to spend on players to get those fans back..... etc etc

I honestly don't think we have a bad squad all things considered. If the fans are going to overlook the development of Bannan, Albrighton, Herd, Delph, Lichaj, et al in favour of the "delights" of spending millions of pounds on "big name" signings then god help us. Personally I think N'Zogbia's looked like a complete waste of £9.5m so far this summer but hey since he cost us lots of money he must be good, right?

If the club is sold, then I honestly thing we are NOT going to get an owner who cares more about the club's future than Lerner. He might have had a hard lesson in football not being a money-maker, but at least he's tried. An Arab billionaire buying the club would be a disaster in the long term, make no mistake.

Great post, I totally agree.

x2

hold on a minute.

IF we pre-spent the Young money on Bent, what the **** happened to the £24 million we got for Milner in August ?????

[andyh]

double post

[rjshare]

I actually pity anyone who owns a football club these days. Even the billionaire Russians and Arabs, their money means nothing in football unless the club they own turns out the results.

If they don't spend, buying big name players on eight figure transfer fees and six figure a week salaries (please, stand back for a second and actually think about the enormity of paying someone that much money a WEEK), then the "fans" (yes, quotation marks) won't turn up - and if the fans don't turn up they can't afford to buy/pay the players.

Are there REAL fans any more or just lots of people who expect an enormously rich person to p*ss their personal wealth up the wall with the sole aim of making a bunch of disillusioned people in a far away town feel superior for 90 minutes a week by being able to gloat that "they" have spent £400bn on players and are paying them enough to redeem the entire national debt of Greece in under 3 months?

RL is clearly doing what needs to be done, putting Villa on a stable financial footing and avoiding it getting into a situation where we end up bankrupt, or entirely reliant on an owner to prop its aspirations up.

Even the Glazers, with their banknote-printing stake in one of the world's richest clubs are now having to sell of a portion of their riches to get their debts to a more manageable level.

Some more points...

We were not about £24m in the red in the Jan transfer window? £18m up front for Bent and £6m for Makoun? In the summer we recouped this by selling Young and Downing, less the fees for Given and N'Zogbia. I am pretty sure that Bent's signing in January was made with money we expected to get back by the sale of Young. In 2011 the transfer window has seen the club not actually get much richer or poorer from transfer fees. We've saved a lot on wages with the outgoing players but it was on the cards that the wage bill had to decrease.

Next - when we're getting 30,000 crowds for a local derby then it's no bloody wonder they're cutting costs. Surely this is going to lead to an ever decreasing spiral? Less fans means less revenue means we have to save costs and less to spend on players to get those fans back..... etc etc

I honestly don't think we have a bad squad all things considered. If the fans are going to overlook the development of Bannan, Albrighton, Herd, Delph, Lichaj, et al in favour of the "delights" of spending millions of pounds on "big name" signings then god help us. Personally I think N'Zogbia's looked like a complete waste of £9.5m so far this summer but hey since he cost us lots of money he must be good, right?

If the club is sold, then I honestly thing we are NOT going to get an owner who cares more about the club's future than Lerner. He might have had a hard lesson in football not being a money-maker, but at least he's tried. An Arab billionaire buying the club would be a disaster in the long term, make no mistake.

Great post, I totally agree.

x2

hold on a minute.

IF we pre-spent the Young money on Bent, what the **** happened to the £24 million we got for Milner in August ?????

we didnt get 24m for him - we got steven ireland...

[markavfc40]

we didnt get 24m for him - we got steven ireland...

We got approx 18mill and Stephen Ireland.