The Welfare System and Children

[Risso]

There is a big problem to tackle. Why do we have such a high teen pregnancy rate compared to other European countries? Just about every list of undesirable actions you can name, the UK is near the top - under age drinking, under age sex, alsoholism etc. If we start to understand the reasons, maybe we can do something about it.

[MrDuck]

The key to removing benefits from people is creating jobs so they don't need benefits. A bloated welfare system is the price you pay for sending jobs overseas, selling off public services, cutting back every where to "save" money, not supplying affordable housing etc etc.

[mjmooney]

The key to removing benefits from people is creating jobs so they don't need benefits. A bloated welfare system is the price you pay for sending jobs overseas, selling off public services, cutting back every where to "save" money, not supplying affordable housing etc etc.

Bingo. We have a winner. :nod:

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

The key to removing benefits from people is creating jobs so they don't need benefits. A bloated welfare system is the price you pay for sending jobs overseas, selling off public services, cutting back every where to "save" money, not supplying affordable housing etc etc.

Bingo. We have a winner. :nod:

I Agree also but just because there is a job does not mean they will do it. You can change the environment as much as you want but some people point blank refuse to work no matter what you do.

Unless it can be a situation where if you get half decent exams + half decent job + half decent pay then you have a pretty good chance of owning your own home. The current situation does not allow this, if you are from a poor family then you are (I guess) more likely to end up the same, same rule for the rich I suppose. Maybe people just know this as instinct to stop them trying or use it as an excuse. Dunno, rambling now.

[mjmooney]

The key to removing benefits from people is creating jobs so they don't need benefits. A bloated welfare system is the price you pay for sending jobs overseas, selling off public services, cutting back every where to "save" money, not supplying affordable housing etc etc.

Bingo. We have a winner. :nod:

I Agree also but just because there is a job does not mean they will do it. You can change the environment as much as you want but some people point blank refuse to work no matter what you do.

Unless it can be a situation where if you get half decent exams + half decent job + half decent pay then you have a pretty good chance of owning your own home. The current situation does not allow this, if you are from a poor family then you are (I guess) more likely to end up the same, same rule for the rich I suppose. Maybe people just know this as instinct to stop them trying or use it as an excuse. Dunno, rambling now.

See my long rambling post on page 1 - social mobility is actually much harder now than it was 40 years ago.

[snowychap]

Keep it simple,

...

If they don't turn up or pass it then ALL benefits are stopped including housing benefit / Dole.

So not turning up to a weekly 'lesson' means that a family loses its home and is then on the streets without any money?

What do they do then? Something criminal, I'd guess.

Who will likely suffer the most from the sanction? The child.

They will also be tested for Alcohol / Drugs / Cigarettes while pregnant - Any trace in a pregnant thing will mean auto fail.

See above.

I would also add to this that any criminal activity of a child under 14 will also mean all benefits stop for the whole family.

Including other siblings who haven't done anything wrong?

See above answer(s).

They are not all bad but in my eyes but 80-90 % are more or less clones of Karen Matthews.

Are 80-90% of middle class parents reprobates like the McCanns?

[DanishVillan]

How can you blame the unemployed when many employed seem to bogart all the work?

50-60 hours a week is just crazy and it sounds (in other topics) like many reach those numbers, sometimes giving their work away for nothing.

[peterms]

The key to removing benefits from people is creating jobs so they don't need benefits. A bloated welfare system is the price you pay for sending jobs overseas, selling off public services, cutting back every where to "save" money, not supplying affordable housing etc etc.

Bingo. We have a winner. :nod:

I Agree also but just because there is a job does not mean they will do it. You can change the environment as much as you want but some people point blank refuse to work no matter what you do.

Unless it can be a situation where if you get half decent exams + half decent job + half decent pay then you have a pretty good chance of owning your own home. The current situation does not allow this, if you are from a poor family then you are (I guess) more likely to end up the same, same rule for the rich I suppose. Maybe people just know this as instinct to stop them trying or use it as an excuse. Dunno, rambling now.

Well, yes.

Just because there is "a job" doesn't mean anyone should be required to do it. There's been some pretty unsavoury "jobs" down the years. Some examples from my own family and friends' experience would include institutionalised rape, aka "domestic service"; carcinogenic factory jobs; and my grandfather dying from a heart attack at age 50 after a lifetime humping coal sacks on and off lorries.

The idea that there's "a job" "on offer" and that anyone unemployed should be required to do it is one of the cornerstones of the philosophies of fascism and slavery. Ludicrous, untenable, and laughable. It is shocking, truly frightening, that so many people have been duped by the popular press (owners? Who benefits from this stuff?) into swallowing this stupid lie.

[peterms]

Well yes the money received for hild benefit is no different in monetary terms than cash. But the purpose the thing exists is to support the child not anyone else.

Therefore if that money isn't being utilised for yhe purpose it was created, perhaps that individual doesn't require it then.

Again, I think you're getting het up over the specific 17 pound coins or whatever is received per week, i.e. that these ringfenced coins are not specifically spent on a child. Part of the suggestion from that paper I linked is, if I remember it right, that the spending has already been made out of other income - that doesn't mean that the child benefit isn't needed or wanted but it explains spending in terms of people's cash flow, priorities and so on.

There have been instances of people trying to fiddle the childcare system, now some companies require birth certificates and also official numbers for nurseries and childcarers to verify that children exist and are in official care.

So there have even been instances of people trying to fiddle a very narrow voucher system which then requires much tighter control (and administration) in order to stop that?

Whether there could be a 'black market' I think the level of abuse that would create would be less than the I'll thought spending which currently benefits can be used for.

I gave a link in a previous post to one BBC report on the black market for section 4 claimants vouchers which would appear to suggest that this kind of scheme is ripe for a black market.

also you say it could be sold to others for the same price? Do you mean selling groceries to people slightly cheaper to get the cash?

I'm talking pence here not pounds. Would only really benefit the individual if they were selling a family of four shop to someOne, or spending the majority of their income on one item to flog off in bulk.

I don't think you've quite thought that through.

If one can't spend these vouchers on something on the 'restricted list' and one wants something on it then one would look to exchange what one can purchase for a means to purchase those other things.

"I'm off to the shop, Deirdre. Would you like me to buy you a loaf, some potatoes, some milk - give me the cash, love."

Then you get in to the shopping for someone else situation you speak about; after that you get in to the more worrying situation of people trading in their restricted spending for a reduced level of unrestricted spending (and not all for the headline contraband of fags, booze and so on).

All good stuff, but I suspect the people who need to read it, won't have either the reading skills or the discipline to follow it through.

Won't stop them spouting contempt for others they fondly imagine to be less well mentally endowed, though.

[VILLAFC2000]

Hmm people claiming Bennifits while I agree to a few points I would like to ask a few questions....!

1.) How much Money is estimated through Tax evasion and Tax Avoidance each year.

2.) How much Does Trident cost per year.

3.) How much is lost through the Bennifit fraud ect..!

Has any one got any figures....?

[VILLAFC2000]

Benefit cheats = 250 million per Year.

Trident = 2 BILLION per year.

TAX AVOIDANCE/EVASION = 95 Billion per year.

This is massively part of the problem.

If people get things into perspective they would see where the problem lies. why is there not a thread on tax evasion/avoidance or Trident when its Signiifcanlty worse numerically then Bennifit cheats claiming £1:50 for a school meal, any one reading can do the math...!

Just because its not mentioned in the Daily Fail and the rest of them it dose not mean that its not happening...!

If the money can be bought back from Avoidance, Evasion Trident then this money can be put back into the ecconomy:-

More jobs can be made helping people to come of bennifits into work...?

Regenretions projects.

More schools, Teachers, Police could be built, helping to educate people academically and on their life styles.

How many schools, local businesses, Hospitals, local loans, education centres could be built for 1 billion let alone 95 billion.............?

And how many schools can be built on 800 parents scrounging a free school meal a day...?

[RunRickyRun]

Poor people blaming other poor people as to why they are poor.

[peterms]

Hmm people claiming Bennifits while I agree to a few points I would like to ask a few questions....!

1.) How much Money is estimated through Tax evasion and Tax Avoidance each year.

2.) How much Does Trident cost per year.

3.) How much is lost through the Bennifit fraud ect..!

Has any one got any figures....?

There's lots of figures, all of them contested.

1. £40bn-120bn. here. Obviously the true amount is hard to find, as so many people spend such a lot of their time trying to lie about and conceal it, including contributors to this site.

2. £20 bn (government), £97 bn ( Greenpeace), £130 bn according to a high estimate, somewhere between the two higher figures according to this.

3. About £5bn a year, according to government sources. Oh, this includes admin blunders, which account for half the total.

Better crack down on the benefit scammers, then. That'll sort out our problems, obviously.

[VILLAFC2000]

Hmm people claiming Bennifits while I agree to a few points I would like to ask a few questions....!

1.) How much Money is estimated through Tax evasion and Tax Avoidance each year.

2.) How much Does Trident cost per year.

3.) How much is lost through the Bennifit fraud ect..!

Has any one got any figures....?

There's lots of figures, all of them contested.

1. £40bn-120bn. here. Obviously the true amount is hard to find, as so many people spend such a lot of their time trying to lie about and conceal it, including contributors to this site.

2. £20 bn (government), £97 bn ( Greenpeace), £130 bn according to a high estimate, somewhere between the two higher figures according to this.

3. About £5bn a year, according to government sources. Oh, this includes admin blunders, which account for half the total.

Better crack down on the benefit scammers, then. That'll sort out our problems, obviously.

Yes great points

£1:50 a day for school meals and £60 for Job Seekers dont worry about the billions on tax evasion....!

Some of the arguments are laughable....!

[VILLAFC2000]

Considering the Deficit of this Recession is 220 Billion

TAX Evasion = 95 billion

Thats half of the problem solved.

OH wait no its not lets tackle the 250 million on benefit frauds....!

[Risso]

Obviously the true amount is hard to find, as so many people spend such a lot of their time trying to lie about and conceal it, including contributors to this site.

Lots of VTers with millions squirrelled away in Zurich bank accounts you reckon?! :shock:

[VILLAFC2000]

Obviously the true amount is hard to find, as so many people spend such a lot of their time trying to lie about and conceal it, including contributors to this site.

Lots of VTers with millions squirrelled away in Zurich bank accounts you reckon?! :shock:

Who said that...?

Are you saying that Tax evasion/Trident/Avoidence does not happen...?

[VILLAFC2000]

Obviously the true amount is hard to find, as so many people spend such a lot of their time trying to lie about and conceal it, including contributors to this site.

Lots of VTers with millions squirrelled away in Zurich bank accounts you reckon?! :shock:

Who said that...?

Are you saying that Tax evasion/Trident/Avoidence does not happen...?

"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today. - Herman Wouk"

[Risso]

Obviously the true amount is hard to find, as so many people spend such a lot of their time trying to lie about and conceal it, including contributors to this site.

Lots of VTers with millions squirrelled away in Zurich bank accounts you reckon?! :shock:

Who said that...?

Are you saying that Tax evasion/Trident/Avoidence does not happen...?

Did you not see the "including contributors to this site" bit? I don't think anybody on here has Trident in their back garden, no.

[VILLAFC2000]

Obviously the true amount is hard to find, as so many people spend such a lot of their time trying to lie about and conceal it, including contributors to this site.

Lots of VTers with millions squirrelled away in Zurich bank accounts you reckon?! :shock:

Who said that...?

Are you saying that Tax evasion/Trident/Avoidence does not happen...?

Did you not see the "including contributors to this site" bit? I don't think anybody on here has Trident in their back garden, no.

lol

What on Earth are you on about - Do you even no what Trident is. If you do I would love to here your views on it...?

Has any one mentioned that some one has Trident in there back garden...! was it reported in the Daily Mail...? If so it must be true.

When was Trident last used...?

Do we really need to have Trident...?

Thats the point....Not does some one have it in their Garden....!