Gary Gardner

[macandally]

Am I right in thinking he didnt make our 23 man first team squad??

[CI]

Thought he did, hence he was in HK with the squad

[PaulTheVillan]

GG didn't need to be registered as such as he's U21.

[Woodytom]

Any videos of GG playing? Haven't seen much of him

Try googling the Chelsea Villa Game in Hong Kong, where he came on in the second half, and was very impressive. Did not look out of place at all.

Though he was the complete opposite when he came on Derby. But thats what you get with kids, up and downs.

To be fair, I wouldnt look out of place coming on for a team that was getting totally played off the park.

I recorded that game and watched it the next day. Turned it off when the 2nd goal went in. Then I read on here that he had come on and looked really good - so for some frightening reason - I took that as gospel and went to go watch it from when he came on. Believe me, if you go and watch it with the attitude of 'apparently this kid was very impressive when he came on' - you will notice how little he actually did. One or two nice touches and did well to win a freekick of Lampard.

Thats not havin a go at him, I just get the thought, if this kid is 'THAT' good, then why wasnt he in the team at 16 like Rooney was, or why isn't he in the team now? I understand hes had an injury so we will see, but if hes 'THAT' good, he should be on and dominating games very soon - and if hes not 'THAT' good, then theres nothing really to get excited about.

FWIW, although it was against Hereford, Andreas Weimanns cameo was the most exciting performance I have seen from any of the youngsters by an absolute country mile.

'THAT's all :winkold:

[macandally]

GG didn't need to be registered as such as he's U21.

Ah that will be why then, thanks!

[barry'sboots]

Thats not havin a go at him, I just get the thought, if this kid is 'THAT' good, then why wasnt he in the team at 16 like Rooney was, or why isn't he in the team now? I understand hes had an injury so we will see, but if hes 'THAT' good, he should be on and dominating games very soon - and if hes not 'THAT' good, then theres nothing really to get excited about.

People do develop at different rates though in all aspects of life. A combination of this, his injury and cautious management may mean that he is not coming through as fast as we would all want but doesn't necessarily mean that he will not ultimately be as capable as we would all want. Although it also doesn't mean that will!

[StanBalaban]

Thats not havin a go at him, I just get the thought, if this kid is 'THAT' good, then why wasnt he in the team at 16 like Rooney was, or why isn't he in the team now? I understand hes had an injury so we will see, but if hes 'THAT' good, he should be on and dominating games very soon - and if hes not 'THAT' good, then theres nothing really to get excited about.

People do develop at different rates though in all aspects of life. A combination of this, his injury and cautious management may mean that he is not coming through as fast as we would all want but doesn't necessarily mean that he will not ultimately be as capable as we would all want. Although it also doesn't mean that will!

True, players do develop at different rates. However, for the successes of our youth team combined with the hyperbole of their talents from some on here, you'd think we'd have a few regular starters in the first team.

Gardner is 19 and, as stated, has had a bad injury, but some of our other 'starlets' - like Lichay and Herd are 22 now and should really be making a step-up if they are good enough.

Put it another way, they are older than Jack Wilshere, Kyle Walker, Danny Welbeck, Victor Moses, Emmanuel Frimpong, Jordan Henderson, Jack Rodwell, Connor Wickham and the same age as Andy fookin Carroll.

The difference is that these players all have a lot of game time under their belts and, the only way ours are going to progress is by either playing regularly for us if they really are good enough or going out on loan.

If they aren't going to make it then we need to Jonny Hogg them out of the door into the championship I'm afraid. In the end that will be best for both parties.

[steaknchips]

Its a problem at our club, that when young players reach the 1st team the managers are too scared to play them..The car they were traveling in soon starts to break down and stall, along with their promising careers...The same exact thing happened to MrCahill, who is now performing in the full International team but plys his services elsewhere..

The only youth player to ever come through regulary in recent times was Gabby..Yet we have some of the best facilities in the world...Something just dosnt add up. Like you said alot of them are 22 yrs old,yet when at youth level were a match for any of the youths around them...Yet ours when 1st team comes along just get frozen out..

Its time for the club to show some bottle and get these kids that have sat around the 1st team squad for 2/3 seasons into the set up alot more often and chuck out the players like Heskey and Petrov that are holding them back.

Why did we buy Hutton for 4m and another 30k ish wage per week just after Herd had just swallowed Jarvis up for his supper? Its things like this that knock the lads confidence..He should have been given the chance, with Beye/Cuellar always at hand for back up...We would have been ok.

[Zatman]

I dont think Gardner will play much Premier League games this year maybe a couple of sub appearances and he needs to go on loan to a team like Brighton where he will get regular gametime

[Stu_The_Villan]

Gardner is 19 and, as stated, has had a bad injury, but some of our other 'starlets' - like Lichay and Herd are 22 now and should really be making a step-up if they are good enough.

Ive never heard Lichaj and Herd described as starlets. They are not in the same bracket as the likes of Bannan Delph and Gardner. I think Villas problem is that we dont show enough faith in these lads quickly enough. Take Delph for example. He should have been starting games for us the season we bought him, but instead decided to let him rot on the bench. I cant see the sense in it myself. Bannan as well. Hes shown me enough to tell me he should be starting games. But again he is being criminally underused.

[StanBalaban]

Its a problem at our club, that when young players reach the 1st team the managers are too scared to play them..The car they were traveling in soon starts to break down and stall, along with their promising careers...The same exact thing happened to MrCahill, who is now performing in the full International team but plys his services elsewhere..

The only youth player to ever come through regulary in recent times was Gabby..Yet we have some of the best facilities in the world...Something just dosnt add up. Like you said alot of them are 22 yrs old,yet when at youth level were a match for any of the youths around them...Yet ours when 1st team comes along just get frozen out..

Its time for the club to show some bottle and get these kids that have sat around the 1st team squad for 2/3 seasons into the set up alot more often and chuck out the players like Heskey and Petrov that are holding them back.

Why did we buy Hutton for 4m and another 30k ish wage per week just after Herd had just swallowed Jarvis up for his supper? Its things like this that knock the lads confidence..He should have been given the chance, with Beye/Cuellar always at hand for back up...We would have been ok.

The only part I don't agree with is the buying of Hutton. I think we still needed a good right back to replace Luke Young, but only because Herd and Lichay should have been playing regular 1st team football on loan for the past 2 seasons, so this season they'd either be starting or we'd know they'd not be making the grade and be sold.

With Beye and Cuellar as back-up, Herd and / or Lichay need to go out on loan this season and get games under their belt ready for next term. Bannan should've stayed on loan for at knob-head Holloway's lot last year, so he'd be ready for this, and Gardner needs to find a loan team once fit too.

Even Scholes and Beckham went out on loan when young and the only reason Delph is ahead of most of our own academy is because he came from a lower league team.

Final point is, look how much the likes of Delph, Carroll, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Wickham were sold for after getting games in the lower leagues. not only are the likes of GG the future of the club on the pitch, but also raise the profile of the club when we have a few extra £10m+ players in the team (providing we don't then go and sell them of course)

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Its a problem at our club, that when young players reach the 1st team the managers are too scared to play them..The car they were traveling in soon starts to break down and stall, along with their promising careers...The same exact thing happened to MrCahill, who is now performing in the full International team but plys his services elsewhere..

The only youth player to ever come through regulary in recent times was Gabby..Yet we have some of the best facilities in the world...Something just dosnt add up. Like you said alot of them are 22 yrs old,yet when at youth level were a match for any of the youths around them...Yet ours when 1st team comes along just get frozen out..

Its time for the club to show some bottle and get these kids that have sat around the 1st team squad for 2/3 seasons into the set up alot more often and chuck out the players like Heskey and Petrov that are holding them back.

Why did we buy Hutton for 4m and another 30k ish wage per week just after Herd had just swallowed Jarvis up for his supper? Its things like this that knock the lads confidence..He should have been given the chance, with Beye/Cuellar always at hand for back up...We would have been ok.

Because one game doesn't make a player?

Lichaj marked Bale out the game but then got tore a new one at Man City and got skinned by Jerome Thomas regularly vs WBA also.

Albrighton, had we just relied on him then God knows how we'd do, he's been pretty dire for a while now and given the lack of experience in our squad, if we had to rely on Herd/Albrighton etc..for full seasons, we'd be in contention for relegation. Just like last year.

Rescued by our senior players at the end of the season which you have failed to accept.

[steaknchips]

Because one game doesn't make a player?

--------

Then give him 2 games, then 3 games, then 4 games etc Because if you think the way your thinking, the players would never be ready..He is 22 years old..

Give all the youngsters until January, using a mixture of experience in the team with them. Rotate the squad and keep it competetive. By Jan we will have a clearer indication of who can step up..Herd or Lichaj may well have adapted during that short spell and saved us 4m and 30k a week in wages..And if it all does look a bit wobbly between now and Jan, we always have a reliable and proven solid player defensively in Cuellar..

[Big_John_10]

I don't think it's just a problem at our club. If these young kids were genuinely good enough to start week in week out then they would.

I think many of our kids are decent players but are massively overhyped on here.

No young kid has really taken his chance, bannan just shows glimpses, albrighton faded massively and I don't know what the Fonz does in training because regardless of who is in charge he seems to be left behind.

I'm not expecting top class performances all the time but if these kids were that good then I think we would have seen more by now.

I think most of our young kids will go the way of Luke Moore, Steven Davis and Liam ridgewell.

Maybe Delph could be the exception but he needs to add consistency to his performances and keep his decent start this season going.

[steaknchips]

I don't think it's just a problem at our club. If these young kids were genuinely good enough to start week in week out then they would.

I think many of our kids are decent players but are massively overhyped on here.

No young kid has really taken his chance, bannan just shows glimpses, albrighton faded massively and I don't know what the Fonz does in training because regardless of who is in charge he seems to be left behind.

I'm not expecting top class performances all the time but if these kids were that good then I think we would have seen more by now.

I think most of our young kids will go the way of Luke Moore, Steven Davis and Liam ridgewell.

Maybe Delph could be the exception but he needs to add consistency to his performances and keep his decent start this season going.

If thats the case, we obviously have massive improvements to be made in this area...My question is, why can a club like Lyon bring through and/or develop players like Benzema, Toulalan, Essien, Malouda, Diarra, Abidal? Yet we are churing out Luke Moore, Liam Ridgewell...

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

I don't think it's just a problem at our club. If these young kids were genuinely good enough to start week in week out then they would.

I think many of our kids are decent players but are massively overhyped on here.

No young kid has really taken his chance, bannan just shows glimpses, albrighton faded massively and I don't know what the Fonz does in training because regardless of who is in charge he seems to be left behind.

I'm not expecting top class performances all the time but if these kids were that good then I think we would have seen more by now.

I think most of our young kids will go the way of Luke Moore, Steven Davis and Liam ridgewell.

Maybe Delph could be the exception but he needs to add consistency to his performances and keep his decent start this season going.

If thats the case, we obviously have massive improvements to be made in this area...My question is, why can a club like Lyon bring through and/or develop players like Benzema, Toulalan, Essien, Malouda, Diarra, Abidal? Yet we are churing out Luke Moore, Liam Ridgewell...

Because they are the biggest club in france, while we aren't the biggest club in England. :?

although Toulalan, Essien, Malouda, Abidal, Diarra didn't come through Lyon academy which makes little sense to your arguement. :|

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Because one game doesn't make a player?

--------

Then give him 2 games, then 3 games, then 4 games etc Because if you think the way your thinking, the players would never be ready..He is 22 years old..

Give all the youngsters until January, using a mixture of experience in the team with them. Rotate the squad and keep it competetive. By Jan we will have a clearer indication of who can step up..Herd or Lichaj may well have adapted during that short spell and saved us 4m and 30k a week in wages..And if it all does look a bit wobbly between now and Jan, we always have a reliable and proven solid player defensively in Cuellar..

we saw with that with Lichaj, gave him another game and he was pretty shocking.

Not saying that's the same with each youngster but do not forget that the manager see's these players every single day in training.

If Herd shows in training that he's not as good as other players in the squad then why can't McLeish bring someone else in. If he doesn't believe Herd is good enough then he's not going to keep the weakened in the hope that he somehow plays very well despite the good chance of him not performing at that level regularly.

Salifou played very well against Prague but it's quite clear that Salifou wasn't good enough for Villa. So many young players are given chances at clubs only to drizzle out and end up at lower clubs because they aren't good enough.

Look at all the youngsters we've had and who right now would you have back? 1. Gary Cahill.

Players will be picked on merits, not age. (as seen by the fact he started Herd over Beye, Delph over Makoun)

[StanBalaban]

Because one game doesn't make a player?

--------

Then give him 2 games, then 3 games, then 4 games etc Because if you think the way your thinking, the players would never be ready..He is 22 years old..

Give all the youngsters until January, using a mixture of experience in the team with them. Rotate the squad and keep it competetive. By Jan we will have a clearer indication of who can step up..Herd or Lichaj may well have adapted during that short spell and saved us 4m and 30k a week in wages..And if it all does look a bit wobbly between now and Jan, we always have a reliable and proven solid player defensively in Cuellar..

we saw with that with Lichaj, gave him another game and he was pretty shocking.

Not saying that's the same with each youngster but do not forget that the manager see's these players every single day in training.

If Herd shows in training that he's not as good as other players in the squad then why can't McLeish bring someone else in. If he doesn't believe Herd is good enough then he's not going to keep the weakened in the hope that he somehow plays very well despite the good chance of him not performing at that level regularly.

Salifou played very well against Prague but it's quite clear that Salifou wasn't good enough for Villa. So many young players are given chances at clubs only to drizzle out and end up at lower clubs because they aren't good enough.

Look at all the youngsters we've had and who right now would you have back? 1. Gary Cahill.

Players will be picked on merits, not age. (as seen by the fact he started Herd over Beye, Delph over Makoun)

That's why Lichay, Gardner, Herd, Baker, et al should be loaned to get game time - preferably to a Norwich or Swansea. That way we either see the potential or we move them on without risking them week in week out in our own starting XI.

It's win, win. Worst case scenario we get a better fee for the ones that aren't going to be PL quality, but can still do a job in the Championship.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Its a problem at our club, that when young players reach the 1st team the managers are too scared to play them..The car they were traveling in soon starts to break down and stall, along with their promising careers...The same exact thing happened to MrCahill, who is now performing in the full International team but plys his services elsewhere..

The only youth player to ever come through regulary in recent times was Gabby..Yet we have some of the best facilities in the world...Something just dosnt add up. Like you said alot of them are 22 yrs old,yet when at youth level were a match for any of the youths around them...Yet ours when 1st team comes along just get frozen out..

Its time for the club to show some bottle and get these kids that have sat around the 1st team squad for 2/3 seasons into the set up alot more often and chuck out the players like Heskey and Petrov that are holding them back.

Why did we buy Hutton for 4m and another 30k ish wage per week just after Herd had just swallowed Jarvis up for his supper? Its things like this that knock the lads confidence..He should have been given the chance, with Beye/Cuellar always at hand for back up...We would have been ok.

Who are you talking about, specifically? Which of our youth products of recent years have not been given ample chance to prove themselves should the club feel them capable in the first place? Luke Moore? Peter Whittingham? Liam Ridgewell? Gary Cahill? Gabby Agbonlahor? Marc Albrighton? Steve Davis? Barry Bannan? Craig Gardner? Ciaran Clark? Fabian Delph?

Who didn't we give a run of games to? Which of them has gone on to greater things? (aside from Cahill which is itself debatable)

Chris Herd is a central midfielder for one and Lichaj is out injured for 4 months. Gary Gardner is 19. We're three games in to the season. Sit on your hands for 5 bloody minutes and watch rather than judging before the fact, please. You're giving me a headache.

[jim]

I don't think it's just a problem at our club. If these young kids were genuinely good enough to start week in week out then they would.

I think many of our kids are decent players but are massively overhyped on here.

No young kid has really taken his chance, bannan just shows glimpses, albrighton faded massively and I don't know what the Fonz does in training because regardless of who is in charge he seems to be left behind.

I'm not expecting top class performances all the time but if these kids were that good then I think we would have seen more by now.

I think most of our young kids will go the way of Luke Moore, Steven Davis and Liam ridgewell.

Maybe Delph could be the exception but he needs to add consistency to his performances and keep his decent start this season going.

This.