GarethRDR Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Two posts and a link up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Westwood is 3rd choice at Sunderland now Gordon is fit which is surprising as he did o.k for them in the games he played. Wouldn't be against getting him in as Given's understudy for a season or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Would quite like to see Turnbull come to the club in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxVilla Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 maybe time little big Brad gets another run out? Given was pathetic for me today. The first and third goals should have been saved. Given is, for me, a world class shot stopper but otherwise a very poor keeper. Horrid distribution, doesn't command his area, completely incapable or unwilling to come off his line and claim anything. After a day like today where he lets two easy ones in it really makes me question his value as a keeper, maybe he's past it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 maybe time little big Brad gets another run out? Given was pathetic for me today. The first and third goals should have been saved. Given is, for me, a world class shot stopper but otherwise a very poor keeper. Horrid distribution, doesn't command his area, completely incapable or unwilling to come off his line and claim anything. After a day like today where he lets two easy ones in it really makes me question his value as a keeper, maybe he's past it? I was very disappointed with GIven today. That first goal was just horrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Given with the injuries isn't as agile as he used to be, so struggles to save the low shots. As in fairness a lot of keepers in their late 30s struggle to do. Wouldn't blame him too much for the 3rd goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxVilla Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Wouldn't blame him too much for the 3rd goal. Most people seem to agree with you. I suggest some of you go back and re-watch the third goal, a lot of peoples opinions are colored by the commentator who seemed to think it was a stunner. If you watch, the ball was at a comfortable height, not in the top corner and had Given not taken a step in the wrong direction he could have stood still and stuck his arm out and would have saved it. Arteta did hit it with a lot of power but for me it should have been a routine save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 26, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted March 26, 2012 one bad game for given and he gets dropped? Not for me. That happens with keepers. If he continues to put in bad performances then yeah, maybe we should think about dropping him. But I'd bet he'll be back next week as good as usual. Even though I agree he should have done better with the free kick (he did that thing some keepers do where he moved behind the wall as the kick was taken meaning he was out of position), this is quite frankly ridiculous: Given is, for me, a world class shot stopper but otherwise a very poor keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxVilla Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 one bad game for given and he gets dropped? Not for me. That happens with keepers. If he continues to put in bad performances then yeah, maybe we should think about dropping him. But I'd bet he'll be back next week as good as usual. Even though I agree he should have done better with the free kick (he did that thing some keepers do where he moved behind the wall as the kick was taken meaning he was out of position), this is quite frankly ridiculous: Given is, for me, a world class shot stopper but otherwise a very poor keeper What is ridiculous about that? I agree that it would be wrong to drop him after one bad performance but I happen to think that a lot of our defensive problems are down to him. We've had trouble defending set pieces all season because teams know they can dump the ball right on top of our six yard box and no matter what Given will not attempt to come off his line. This is not a new problem mind you as Friedel was similar however Friedel had a lot more presence due to his size whereas Given gets crowded out so easily that he just sits back and tries to make reaction saves from his line. This means that we have to play a certain type of defender, the type who throws himself in front of everything. Many of our defensive issues stem from us sitting very deep and allowing teams to play in front of us, when our opponents start to line up a shot it generally results in Collins or Dunne throwing themselves in front of it or trying to make a list ditch challenge. Now as I've said Given is one of the best as far as shot stopping goes but theres a lot more to goalkeeping than just reaction saves. Furthermore, I have issues with us giving a 35 year old goalkeeper who I can't recall the last time he played an entire season without injury problems a 5 year contract and he is presumably one of our top earners. Also factor in the fact that we have a very good relatively young goalkeeper who is on much smaller wages who is going to walk for free in the summer due to lack of opportunities and to me the Given signing is another poor one, along with N'Zogbia and Hutton of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 We've had trouble defending set pieces all season and last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 last season our set pieces were just as bad, suppose Given fault as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxVilla Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 last season our set pieces were just as bad, suppose Given fault as well If you would have read two sentences further you would have seen that I addressed that in my post This is not a new problem mind you as Friedel was similar however Friedel had a lot more presence due to his size whereas Given gets crowded out so easily that he just sits back and tries to make reaction saves from his line. edit: just wanted to add that I have a lot of respect for Given and I don't have some agenda against him, I'm just surprised that he seems to be given a pass by so many of our fans. I guess, to be fair, he has been the least of our problems this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Could it be argued that Guzan is better then Given or not? Is Given a step up from Friedel or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Given = Friedel > Guzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2012 Given = Friedel > Guzan This. I'd actually say Friedel might be a bit better than Given, but seeing as Given has more mile son the clock, I think letting go of Friedel and signing Given was a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 3, 2012 one bad game for given and he gets dropped? Not for me. That happens with keepers. If he continues to put in bad performances then yeah, maybe we should think about dropping him. But I'd bet he'll be back next week as good as usual. Even though I agree he should have done better with the free kick (he did that thing some keepers do where he moved behind the wall as the kick was taken meaning he was out of position), this is quite frankly ridiculous: Given is, for me, a world class shot stopper but otherwise a very poor keeper What is ridiculous about that? Given is, for me, a world class shot stopper but otherwise a very poor keeper otherwise a very poor keeper very poor keeper very poor :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I rate Given, he along with Bent, and maybe Gabby are the only players who I really want to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Given and Friedel are about the same imo, as others have said both are excellent shotr stoppers but both are average at coming off their line and both are also guilty at parrying the ball too often back into the six yard box. Friedel has looked very good for Spurs but remember he isn't facing 10-15 shots a game anymore (well unless they're playing Arsenal away!) The thing with Guzan is that he isn't even 30 yet which is still young for a keeper and in his first sustained run in the team he looked good so I think we'll be losing a potentially good keeper once he gets a run of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Same as everyone's said. I think Given's a good shot stopper, but I don't think I've ever seen him punch a ball out. I'd try to hold on to Guzan, but I really wouldn't look down at him to get regular chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 On Given's (or any keeper's) willingness to come for crosses; it's not a deficiency, it's a choice. You're either a goalie who comes off his line or you aren't. There's pros and cons to either, but as long as you stick with your chosen style then your defence plays accordingly. I think we're perhaps attributing more criticism then is necessary to Given in this instance, simply because we have been woeful at clearing the ball from set plays so we notice it more. In actuality, the absolute worst thing Given could do is to start coming for crosses unless it's a conscious decision made by him, the defence and the coaching staff going forward (in which case he'll need to do it every single time) as it'll just cause confusion otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts