Murdoch Scum

[snowychap]

Like the pistol idea, btw.

But it was traditionally associated with "honourable chaps" taking responsibility and atoning for their actions, which hardly fits the bill here.

Indeed but those 'honourable chaps' hardly required the direction.

I was seeing Dean's suggestion as the kind of executive induction procedure that all progressive HR departments should look at.

What about pump action shotguns, and assisted suicide? No shortage of volunteers to assist, I should think. Could go pay-per-view.

Not really my thing. The problem with handing over that kind of weapon to these people is that they'd probably take out half of their staff, claim that they'd done society a service by doing so and expect to be lauded,

A pistol would reduce the downside risk.

[JulieB]

they said condeming the so-called British justice system

Could you elaborate on that?

Didn't you hear Dowling's parents and sister reading out their statement's after the murder trial outside the court?

Pretty angry, moving stuff from them about what they'd had to endure.. how the defence counsel had dragged their family through the gutter. Apparently Milly's Mum collapsed in court after being cross examined and made to look like the world's worst mother. Sister's statement I thought was particularly eloquent and thought provoking.... all said the trial has been a living hell.

[TheDon]

they said condeming the so-called British justice system

Could you elaborate on that?

Didn't you hear Dowling's parents and sister reading out their statement's after the murder trial outside the court?

Pretty angry, moving stuff from them about what they'd had to endure.. how the defence counsel had dragged their family through the gutter. Apparently Milly's Mum collapsed in court after being cross examined and made to look like the world's worst mother. Sister's statement I thought was particularly eloquent and thought provoking.... all said the trial has been a living hell.

Why shouldn't the defense have been allowed to do that though?

We in this country give everyone the right to a fair trial, and that involves letting them exhaust every possible avenue of evidence. That Milly had previously threatened to run away because of things she discovered about her father is not the defence's problem. If it wasn't allowed to be explored in trial that, due to there being zero evidence linking her killer to the scene, there was a possibility she ran away on her own accord, then the defendant would not have got his fair trial.

Personally I'd rather ensure guilt than protect the feelings of the family. As harsh as it may sound mollycoddling has no place in the criminal justice system.

[Juju]

Didn't you hear Dowling's parents and sister reading out their statement's after the murder trial outside the court?

Pretty angry, moving stuff from them about what they'd had to endure.. how the defence counsel had dragged their family through the gutter. Apparently Milly's Mum collapsed in court after being cross examined and made to look like the world's worst mother. Sister's statement I thought was particularly eloquent and thought provoking.... all said the trial has been a living hell.

Your missing the essential point. At the time of the statements in court, he is technically still a free man, and on an equal footing with the prosecution. Therefore, the jury has every right to listen to all possible alternatives,to ensure he is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt, before sending a man to prison for in all likelyhood, the rest of his life.

Theres many a victim of miscarriage of justive that wishes juries had all the evidence and theories presented to them before they sent a man to the gallows or to a life term. It is everyones right to be allwed to explain themselves, and the juries right to consider it. Thats before the parents right. Oh, and lets face it, despite the unpleasantness, there could have been an an essentialt truth to some of the allegations? For example on one point - If as an adult, you leave hardcore porn lying around, and it distresses the child, thats not anyone elses fault its it? If as parents, the child is unhappy and you as parents haven't noticed, should you have? Whether it comes up in court at a later date just to "embarass you" is not the issue, and to think just because a man who was then convicted says so, doesn't make any the less palatable.

[Chindie]

Didn't you hear Dowling's parents and sister reading out their statement's after the murder trial outside the court?

Pretty angry, moving stuff from them about what they'd had to endure.. how the defence counsel had dragged their family through the gutter. Apparently Milly's Mum collapsed in court after being cross examined and made to look like the world's worst mother. Sister's statement I thought was particularly eloquent and thought provoking.... all said the trial has been a living hell.

I thought that was what you were getting at. I raised opposition to this line of thought earlier in the thread, Snowy posted a link to an excellent blog explaining the failure of such a point of view, and indeed the chaps above have shown the same objections to it.

Don't fall into the trap of simply looking at the emotions. For justice to have been served, in this country, thankfully, the accused, no matter how heinous his previous convictions and no matter how clearly guilty he was, or how upsetting or distasteful it may be, has the right to present a defence. In this case, Bellfield put forth a defence that was indeed distressing, humiliating, and arguably at times could be considered deliberately vindictive... but there was evidence to allow that to be pursued as relevant and to have a fair trial, that was had to be done. The Dowlers seemed to have suggested they would have that right removed, and that is wrong.

TheDon puts it a little bluntly above, but he's roundly right. Justice was only done because Bellfield was allowed to put forth that defence and by a jury of his peers, found lacking. The Dowlers suffered because of it, and perhaps the judge should have acted differently (the judge having the right to dismiss lines of enquiry if they become intent on humilation, and also has the right to dismiss much of those present at a trial should evidence become sensitive in nature).

[Gringo]

I raised opposition to this line of thought earlier in the thread

Nah - you introduced opposition before that line of thought had even been raised earlier in the thread. A little bit off topic - maybe start a new thread?

[Chindie]

I didn't say it was raised in the thread . I just added it as an aside.

I did think about opening a thread but it isn't really worth it, tisn't going anywhere.

[snowychap]

Peston just claimed on BBC that News International have passed on info to the police regarding payments made by the NOTW to the police.

It is alleged that this includes emails of Coulson authorizing payments to the police. Oops.

[Juju]

Peston just claimed on BBC that News International have passed on info to the police regarding payments made by the NOTW to the police.

It is alleged that this includes emails of Coulson authorizing payments to the police. Oops.

Basically, this is Murdoch deciding he isn't getting sufficient protection from dodgy dave, and so hanging his friend out to dry, (or at least a warning to politicians to lay off) and will also end hanging Brooks who's ability to defend this shit has been poor from the start. Basically the Emperor is getting rid of Darth Vader to save the Empire. Suspect now its costing money, re advertisers, sales, ditching Brooks will be a real sacrifice to take the heat off the corporation itself. She has said she's going no where. Until Murdoch decides otherwise.

But if your the editor, you must read the shit you print. She *must* have known simply by being in that environment, let alone having the faintest idea where the ideas for the stories came from.

[snowychap]

Basically, this is Murdoch deciding he isn't getting sufficient protection from dodgy dave...

I think that's part of it. I also think there's probably a bit of a gambit regarding the police themselves in that if the police are seen to ignore this in favour of the phone hacking then it might cause problems.

It seems a little bizarre, otherwise, that a meeting between plod and News International execs regarding phone hacking has led to this information being disclosed (and its disclosure being passed to the beeb - and others).

It's all getting a bit House of Cards, isn't it?

What I want to know is how much blame we can lay at the feet of Ross Kemp.

[RunRickyRun]

What a day of revelations. Just when you think it can't get worse (or better ), more comes out.

The outrage will subside though and Murdoch will still have the politicians by the balls again (this time on TV as well as print after the BskyB takeover).

The hacking will also continue (I remember the Mail promising never to use Paparazzi photos again after the anger of the death of Diana) but this time they wont be as careless.

I would like to see Brooks fired before it all goes away again. To see her and Coulson in prison would be a delicious bonus.

[djdabush]

NOTW hacked bereaved families of the 7/7 attacks, it just gets worse.

Detectives from Scotland Yard’s team investigating the phone hacking scandal are in the process of contacting a “handful” of the 52 bereaved families whose names or phone numbers have appeared as part of their inquiry, sources told the Daily Telegraph.

It is thought that journalists were seeking to access voice messages left on family members’ phones as they desperately waited for information about their loved ones in the aftermath of the bombings in 2005.

It is unclear if they were aware at that stage that their relatives had died in the bombings.

The news will come as a deep shock to the relatives affected, coming as it does on the eve of the sixth anniversary of the bombings.

Last night Clifford Tibber, solicitor for a number of the families, said he was unaware of the development but added: “This will cause heartache for all the families involved. The anniversary is such an emotional moment for everybody who was caught up in the bombings and many of them still struggle at this time of year.”

[RunRickyRun]

^^

:shock:

That's gone straight in at number 1

[b6bloke]

now saying that victims of 7 7 victims were targeted!

[bickster]

What I want to know is how much blame we can lay at the feet of Ross Kemp.

He'd just say he was the battered husband, oh he did that once already, when his wife was running stories about the evils of husbands battering their wifes. Kemp even got her arrested...

[snowychap]

What I want to know is how much blame we can lay at the feet of Ross Kemp.

He'd just say he was the battered husband, oh he did that once already, when his wife was running stories about the evils of husbands battering their wifes. Kemp even got her arrested...

There's got to be a conspiracy angle with the private investigators, hasn't there?

[peterms]

Peston just claimed on BBC that News International have passed on info to the police regarding payments made by the NOTW to the police.

It is alleged that this includes emails of Coulson authorizing payments to the police. Oops.

Basically, this is Murdoch deciding he isn't getting sufficient protection from dodgy dave, and so hanging his friend out to dry, (or at least a warning to politicians to lay off) and will also end hanging Brooks who's ability to defend this shit has been poor from the start. Basically the Emperor is getting rid of Darth Vader to save the Empire. Suspect now its costing money, re advertisers, sales, ditching Brooks will be a real sacrifice to take the heat off the corporation itself. She has said she's going no where. Until Murdoch decides otherwise.

But if your the editor, you must read the shit you print. She *must* have known simply by being in that environment, let alone having the faintest idea where the ideas for the stories came from.

When the police investigate crime where the evidence may be found on computers, they are supposed to take a mirror of the disks in question. Like, at an early stage, not many years after.

Either they have failed to do so, which in itself should be a disciplinary matter and a subject for further inquiry, or the NoW are simply giving them copies of what both parties know they already have, as a PR gesture, pretending to comply and be helpful.

Brooks is toast. She will be dispensed with when it's convenient, with lots of "look how seriously we take this! We have dismissed our CE!" bullshit. She will serve as a lightning conductor for a day or two yet.

It's gone beyond giving Dave a warning. This is out of control, for both of them.

[bickster]

It's gone beyond giving Dave a warning. This is out of control, for both of them.

I've seen a few tech journo's tweet that they haven't seen a reaction like this before.

If only we could hack The Digger's phone (and Camerons too for that matter) ;-)

[peterms]

It's gone beyond giving Dave a warning. This is out of control, for both of them.

I've seen a few tech journo's tweet that they haven't seen a reaction like this before.

If only we could hack The Digger's phone (and Camerons too for that matter) ;-)

Interesting point made by the truly dodgy Alistair Campbell on Newsnight, about a "tipping point". That sounds about right. The moment is right for demanding all sorts of things, so lets not waste it.

As for the lovely flame-haired Rebekah, she's been stuffed by tomorrow's Indie linking her to a phone tapper. Like, directly, as in personally instructing the action. Not on the website as far as I can see, will be shortly, but mentioned on Newsnight by the editor, and pic here:

[Dodgyknees]

Take 'em down. Boycott, set fire to the offices, chase 'em out of town!

Seriously though, the guys a Bond villian, too much power for one man to have. The depressing thing is the problem isn't him, it's the morally abject millions that buy his trash.

Thought to have been based on Murdoch!