Gym Routine

[dont_do_it_doug.]

When I say more reps, why does everyone assume I mean 12+?

I work in the 8-10 range.

[TheDon]

Because your statement implied doing 100 would have bigger gains than doing 10.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Because your statement implied doing 100 would have bigger gains than doing 10.

I didn't intend it that way. Anything above 20 is absolutely pointless. You could curl a can of beans for 30 reps and you'd feel the burn and perhaps even the pump. But your arms won't get any bigger.

10 reps is a high number no?

Meh. I don't care anyway. I'm getting bigger, stronger and healthier so **** the lot of ya :winkold:

[Ryan.]

The last comes from diet and ensuring your body is burning fat. You can do that whilst doing the first two, (well, you can clean bulk without putting on bodyfat, you can't really shred significant amounts of fat) but you'll need to have strict control over your diet, only eating carbs post work out as that's when you want the insulin for protein synthesis, else it's a case of the good old bulk then cut (incidentally you need more protein whilst cutting than bulking to ensure muscle breakdown doesn't occur)..

During a clean bulk what would you eat pre workout for energy instead of carbs? I always thought eating small amouts of complex carbs through out the day was essential to keep up your metabolism and insulin release.

Before my current program I was probably 60/40 in favour of weights to cardio, I had a six pack and the gains were ok, but now I've cut out the cardio completely (apart from a 5 min warm up) I've lost the pack but the gains are far superior.

I've always thought of being cut as being a massive contradiction of biology, bulking requires alot of calories and feeding the body whereas cutting requires opposite, it's fascinating how they come together.

[TheDon]

Most of your energy during a work out actually comes from the glycogen stores within muscle tissue. You don't really need to feed for the workout, you just need to feed to resupply the muscles with glycogen afterwards. It's very different to if you were doing cardio where you need a constant energy supply because weight training is short bursts.

When I say "carbs" I'm talking mostly about high GI carbs, things like bread and rice, low GI carbs like fruit and veg are fine and should be eaten in abundance. You just want to avoid spiking your blood sugar outside of your workout and recovery.

Provoking an insulin release is exactly what you want to avoid for a clean bulk. Insulin promotes fat storage, something you want to avoid so the aim is to only provoke one post work out where you'll want it's effects on protein synthesis.

The most important thing for a clean bulk though is eating the right amount of food, if you're putting on fat when bulking then you're most likely eating too much. The problem a lot of people have is they start eating for two. Thinking they can put on 20lbs of muscle a month and eating to that level, when in reality it's only around 10% of that. Remember that it only takes 3,500 calories to put on a lb of fat, and if you're over eating by 500 calories a day you'll do that in a week, whereas it doesn't matter how much you eat your body is limited to creating around half a lb of muscle a week unless you're taking steroids.

[BOF]

I accept this is borderline thread necromancy but it is completely relevant and it's better than hogging the general chat or starting anew.

Right, with that out of the way.

STEVO !!

I went on Sunday (because it turns out my gym closes at FOUR PM on a Saturday ( )).

Obviously my arms are still killing me but given that I plan on going every other day, have I basically just signed up to having a constantly sore upper body for the foreseeable future? Does it ever stop given that I'm not allowing it much time to recover? If not, at what point do I stop being weak through DOMS?

[Stevo985]

Hiya!

DOMS will stop. Imo, you should always ache and hurt a certain amount after a workout, or you haven't worked hard enough.

But the ridiculously painful muscle soreness will stop once you're used to it.

To be honest, BOF, if you're doing a full body workout, ie working the same body parts every time you go, then every other day is a lot.

A full body workout should really only be done twice a week. If you want to put some muscle on then the recovery days are as important as the workout days.

If you want to go every other day (which is fine) then I'd suggest splitting your workout up. So, if you're going 4 days a week try doing something like

Day 1 - Chest and Triceps

Day 2 - rest

Day 3 - Back and biceps

Day 4 - rest

Day 5 - Shoulders and Abs

Day 6 - rest

Day 7 - Legs

That way you're going every other day, but you're only hitting each muscle group once a week. Plenty of time to recover, but you're still working out 4 times a week.

What are your goals? Are you working out to lose weight or are you serious about putting some muscle on? Either way, I'd check out Muscle and Strength

Read some articles on that site. You honestly don't realise how little you know about going to the gym until you read some of that stuff

Specific recommendations:

Expert Guide to Fat Loss

Expert Guide to Muscle Building

Nutrition for beginners part 1 and Part 2

Edit: Don't be put off by the amount of stuff centred around serious bodybuilding on that site. There's a hell of a lot of stuff on there for weight loss and a more casual approach to muscle building.

[BOF]

Not interested in weight loss or working lower body. I've lost the weight and as a sprinter, the legs have never been a problem. I'm doing it more out of curiosity than anything. I've no specific goal and just want to see what I can achieve with a bit of commitment. Basically the programme I've been given is 3 times 8 repetitions on every upper body machine with 10 mins cardio before and a stretch/warm down after the workout. I'm not looking to be Arnie. Just wanna see if I can get some tone/definition.

[Stevo985]

Cool. Those are fair enough goals.

But I'd still say that if you're working hard, every other day hitting the same muscles won't do you much good. You'll just be constantly breaking down muscle without leaving any time for it to grow back. Not saying you won't see any benefit, but it won't be very efficient, for want of a better word.

And just to say, definition comes as much from diet, i.e. not having much fat, as it does from muscle. You could be as muscular as Arnie, but if you're not below 15% body fat you won't have much definition.

If you are below that then you're already halfway there

[Stevo985]

Oh, and just because I can't resist chipping in to the debate had previously in this thread (which I missed first time round) The Don is correct in pretty much everything he's written in this thread (although his tone, no pun intended, leaves a bit to be desired at times ).

If anyone's reading back over it, read his posts.

[Dante_Lockhart]

Today's workout

[Stevo985]

Link doesn't work for me Dants

[Dante_Lockhart]

http://www.fitocracy.com/entry/9259898/

Any better? Not sure if non-registered peeps can view it.

[Shillzz]

Here's my workout - it's not perfect but it gets me out and about:

Day 1: Chest & Biceps

Dumbell Bench Press 3 x 10 reps (2 x 26kg)

Cable Bicep Curl 3 x 9 reps (27.5kg)

Cable Fly 3 x 10 reps (2 x 15kg)

Preacher Curl 3 x 10 reps (14kg)

Machine Bench Press 3 x 8 reps (75kg)

Dumbell Chest Pullover 3 x 10 reps (26kg)

Pullups 3 x 8 reps

Day 2: Back & Triceps

Cable Wide Arm Pulldown (Infront of chest) 3 x 10 reps (55kg)

Cable Tricep Pulldown (Straigh Bar) 3 x 10 reps (30kg)

Cable Wide Arm Pulldown (Behind chest) 3 x 10 reps (55kg)

Cable Tricep Pulldown (Rope) 3 x 10 reps (25kg)

Cable Horizontal Pull (Triangular attachment) 3 x 10 reps (75kg)

Day 3: Shoulders

Dumbell Lateral Raises 3 x 10 reps (8kg)

Dumbell Forward Raises 3 x 10 reps (10kg)

Dumbell Shoulder Press 3 x 9 reps (24kg)

Cable Pull Up 3 x 10 reps (35kg)

From a non weights point of view every week I do the following:

1 Hour of 5-a-side

8.5km of tough off road mountain biking

2 miles of jogging

If anyone wants to pick holes in that, they are very much welcome, it's not a particularly refined schedule by any means.

[Dante_Lockhart]

Day 1:

Squats

Leg Press

Overhead Press

Day 3:

Bench press

Barbell Rows

Day 4:

Deadlifts

Pull-ups

Chin-ups

I usually throw in some curls at the end of each workout just to finish up.

[Stevo985]

Mine is:

Day 1

Incline DB Press

Flat DB Press

Incline DB Flies

Chest Dips

DB Curls

BB Curls

Rope Pull downs

Pull Ups

Day 3

Single DB Rows

Barbell Rows

Seated Rows

Lat Pull down

Lat raises

DB Shoulder press

Shrugs

Day 5 or 6

Deadlifts

Squats (Front and back)

Clean and Press

Good Mornings

Calf Raises

Plus plenty of cardio in and around all that (HIIT on "rest" days as much as possible)

Once I'm into a bulk (in 6-8 weeks hopefully) I'll be starting a new routine. Either something completely new or adding another day to my split and moving those lifts around because the volume is a bit too high at the moment, and I'll have more time with less cardio to do.

[Stevo985]

Shillz, yours looks decent, but I'd always advise people to add in some big compound lifts. Deadlifts, Squats and overhead presses.

They both build strength and muscle. And for those that want to lose fat, they are huge calorie burners because they work your whole body, especially your big muscles (back, quads, hammys etc)

[Dante_Lockhart]

I don't use machines now at all, it's all compound stuff I do with pull-ups, chin-ups, press-ups etc... thrown in.

Love it. It was so difficult keeping track of everything when isolating muscle groups and using the machines and different dumbbell sets. Now it's a piece of piss and I'm getting massive gains.

[Stevo985]

Only machine I use is the cable machine for tricep pull downs. Everything else is DB or BB.

As I say, once I'm bulking I'll probably move to a routine more like yours, Dante.

But that's not to say machines are crap. They're not. Some people swear by them.

[Dante_Lockhart]

Some machines do have a use, yeah. I'm thinking like you said the tricep pull down and facepulls etc... but most machines restrict your movement and don't give you the benefits that using free weights do, for example, the Smith machine.

If you take a guy who is using the Smith machine to squat say, 120kg, because of the restriction of movement whilst using it (Because it cannot fall forwards, backwards or sideways it does not need to be stabilised) the guy would not be able to do it using a free weight barbell on a squat rack and will likely cause him an injury. It gives a false representation of their strength because they assist you too much.