Gym Routine

[MCU]

3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Isn't that the point though? I'm a little bit competitive, but I don't see the point of working out if I don't give it 100%. I've had that discussion with my family so many times you wouldn't believe.

I wonder if I take it too far sometimes. But everyone thinks that don't they? Being absolutely shattered, getting headaches, back spasms after DLs so you can't sleep. Isn't all that pretty normal? I've worked out the same way for years. While is shatters me post workout, I'm normally fine the next day.

Of course. One thing I've learnt lately is you've gotta do things that feel natural to you.

I've only started lifting again after about 5-6 years off. I've never took it serious and I probably still won't, but I'll go in and do a simple routine that works for me. I just like to stay fit and healthy. I never did deadlifts until I started reading how much of an incredible work out they are and now I love them.

The only thing I'd question is if you're doing all 3 compounds in one workout by the time you get to the third you're going to be tired and not lift as heavy as you probably could.

Try mixing it up a bit maybe and give you body a bit of a shock.

 

[Dante_Lockhart]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

That's a lot of compound lifts for one workout.

If I did Squats followed by deadlifts followed by benchpress I'd be absolutely **** after just those three exercises

Stronglifts 5x5 was brilliant when I did it. 3 times a week. Week 1: A,B,A Week 2: B,A,B etc...

A: Squats, Bench, Rows

B: Squats, Overhead, Deadlift.

Generally didn't need to supplement anything else in but if on the off chance I did have some extra energy after that (which at the higher weight I didn't!) I threw in some chin/pull ups, kettlebell work.

[KenjiOgiwara]

19 minutes ago, MCU said:

Of course. One thing I've learnt lately is you've gotta do things that feel natural to you.

I've only started lifting again after about 5-6 years off. I've never took it serious and I probably still won't, but I'll go in and do a simple routine that works for me. I just like to stay fit and healthy. I never did deadlifts until I started reading how much of an incredible work out they are and now I love them.

The only thing I'd question is if you're doing all 3 compounds in one workout by the time you get to the third you're going to be tired and not lift as heavy as you probably could.

Try mixing it up a bit maybe and give you body a bit of a shock.

 

That's obviously a very fair comment. I'd agree with that. Not sure how I'm gonna adress it, but yes ofc. chins after DL and BP for instance is a right nightmare. Squats, DL and BP after eachother I feel is okay as they hit such different muscle groups. Suppose I could probably go even a little bit heaver on DL if I didn't do it after squats, but I dunno. Haven't tried it mind.

[Stevo985]

32 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Isn't that the point though? I'm a little bit competitive, but I don't see the point of working out if I don't give it 100%. I've had that discussion with my family so many times you wouldn't believe.

 

Yeah but you yourself are saying you're so exhausted after those that you can't give your isolation exercises 100%. So you're not giving your workout 100%.
It's like sprinting the first 13 miles of a marathon and then not being able to complete it. That's not giving 100%, it's burning yourself out early.

I think you'd be better off splitting up some of the compound lifts for different days. You're still giving each one 100% but you're leaving enough in the tank to complete the rest of your workout.

You'll find very very few, if any, routines that have squats deadlifts and benchpress all on the same day. Let alone with a bunch of other exercises with it

Edited June 9, 2021 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Stronglifts 5x5 was brilliant when I did it. 3 times a week. Week 1: A,B,A Week 2: B,A,B etc...

A: Squats, Bench, Rows

B: Squats, Overhead, Deadlift.

Generally didn't need to supplement anything else in but if on the off chance I did have some extra energy after that (which at the higher weight I didn't!) I threw in some chin/pull ups, kettlebell work.

I've done that myself and it's excellent. But it's nowhere near as demanding as the routine Kenji put up

[KenjiOgiwara]

To be perfectly honest I almost find the calori management more difficult than anything else. I really don't want to pack on fat again, so I'm going for a pretty lean build. I know this will make me gain less muscle and maybe wear out the body a bit (so I need more days off now and then).
 

[KenjiOgiwara]

10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah but you yourself are saying you're so exhausted after those that you can't give your isolation exercises 100%. So you're not giving your workout 100%.
It's like sprinting the first 13 miles of a marathon and then not being able to complete it. That's not giving 100%, it's burning yourself out early.

I think you'd be better off splitting up some of the compound lifts for different days. You're still giving each one 100% but you're leaving enough in the tank to complete the rest of your workout.

You'll find very very few, if any, routines that have squats deadlifts and benchpress all on the same day. Let alone with a bunch of other exercises with it

Yeah I guess.

Would you do isolation exercises when you could do compounds though? Keep in mind I've hardly worked out the last 18 months.

Edited June 9, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[KenjiOgiwara]

I think @markavfc40 was right though, and I need to increase my calorie intake. I've gone 1500 kcal for a long time to become more defined. But since covid has affected my muscle mass pretty badly, I need to regain some of that mass, and I'm noticing 3-4 workouts a week while working full time and rolling on 1500 kcal, well it's kicking my arse atm.

I think I'm gonna try this. Which is fairly close to what I'm currently doing at 1500, but I will have a breakfast and bigger dinner + adding some shakes and nuts (I'm not do aprox kcal, never actually checked it):

• Breakfast - oat and milk with some jam. (500 kcal)
• Lunch - Normally a salad bowl with tuna and a couple of eggs. But during covid it's been 2 slices of bread, 3 eggs and some butter/salt. (salad is probably around 500 kcal. | Two slices of bread + packet of butter + 3 eggs : 200 + 50 + 210= ca. 500 kcal)
• Dinner - whatever the gf makes. Normally a bowl of pasta or fish or something. I'm guessing the dinner is normally around 800-1000 kcal.
• Sometimes I fill up on some almonds and such in the evening if I'm peckish.
• I do protein shakes the days I feel I'm not getting enough protein of kcal, but normally just one.

So I guess I normal day is around 2000 kcal. Workout days I might hit 2200-2400, but then I've normally eaten too much and feel like shite.

So in NET that means a workout day (which normally is around 500 kcal burned (at the gym): 1700-1900 calorie intake. On a non-workout day I'm at around 2000 kcal (then the next question is how much calories are burned when you're sore and recovering from lifting I read people call it the afterburn effect or something).

Maybe that's a better plan going forward.

Edited June 9, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[Stevo985]

48 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Yeah I guess.

Would you do isolation exercises when you could do compounds though? Keep in mind I've hardly worked out the last 18 months.

I would build a workout around compound exercises and support them with isolation exercises. But I would space them out over a week so that you're not overloading yourself on one workout.

At the moment I'm doing two days of chest and back and two days of arms and shoulders and then a day of legs.

So on a chest day I'd do one or two compound lifts for chest and one for back and the rest isolation (different ones on different days though)

 

Multiple compounds aren't bad I guess, but squats deadlifts and bench are probably the three hardest so you're bound to be absolutely knackered after those three. I'd keep those separate or only do two together

Edited June 9, 2021 by Stevo985

[El Zen]

I’ve mostly done variants of Stronglifts 5x5, which is a really good programme, and mostly build my workouts around big compound lifts. However, I have found it necessary to work in some isolated excersises, and also include some alternative compound lifts, especially when I plateu on the 5x5 and/or grow tired of it. I have also mixed in some higher and lower reps sets, for much the same reason. 

I think it’s important not to try to do too much, though. Building muscle and strength (without cheating) is long, hard and systematic work with lots of setbacks and failure. It’s tough enough without nearly murdering yourself with too big a workload. 

[Stevo985]

Rest is also a huge part of building muscle. It's when the muscle grows. If you're constantly exhausting all your muscles then there's no recovery time

[KenjiOgiwara]

41 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I would build a workout around compound exercises and support them with isolation exercises. But I would space them out over a week so that you're not overloading yourself on one workout.

At the moment I'm doing two days of chest and back and two days of arms and shoulders and then a day of legs.

So on a chest day I'd do one or two compound lifts for chest and one for back and the rest isolation (different ones on different days though)

 

Multiple compounds aren't bad I guess, but squats deadlifts and bench are probably the three hardest so you're bound to be absolutely knackered after those three. I'd keep those separate or only do two together

Okay. But lets say you have 20 minutes to workout, and you can do a quick deadlift session or say curls, dips and pulldowns. Assuming you've already performed deadlifts once that week. Would you prioritise DLs over isolation exercises?

[El Zen]

10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Rest is also a huge part of building muscle. It's when the muscle grows. If you're constantly exhausting all your muscles then there's no recovery time

Definitely. I’m not good enough at resting. My workouts aren’t too exhausting as such, but I get restless on full rest days. I go to the gym every other day, and will typically go for a run on the days between. I’ll only allow myself one rest day per week. If that. I should rest more. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

Just now, El Zen said:

Definitely. I’m not good enough at resting. My workouts aren’t too exhausting as such, but I get restless on full rest days. I go to the gym every other day, and will typically go for a run on the days between. I’ll only allow myself one rest day per week. If that. I should rest more. 

May I ask how long sessions your run at 5x5? I feel I'm normally around 90 minutes, but I'm keen on getting it down to maybe 70 minutes.

[El Zen]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

May I ask how long sessions your run at 5x5? I feel I'm normally around 90 minutes, but I'm keen on getting it down to maybe 70 minutes.

I usually spend about an hour in the gym. Maybe down to 45 mins if I’m only doing Stronglifts 5x5. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

7 minutes ago, El Zen said:

I usually spend about an hour in the gym. Maybe down to 45 mins if I’m only doing Stronglifts 5x5. 

I just read a bit about 5x5 and it says

"Why these exercises?

You don’t see any sort of machine, dumbell, or isolation exercises and that is for good reason. These barbell movements allow you to move the greatest amount of weight possible. With each workout being a full body workout and you moving the greatest amount of weight as possible, you will be able to produce the greatest gains in strength.

In order to increase strength, it requires additional muscle. Making it extremely effective at building muscle mass. Additionally, you are stimulating full body muscle growth 3x a week. In comparison to stimulating each muscle group 1x or 2x a week in your typical upper/lower or body part specific workout routines."

So people agree on this ? You might as well just skip curls, dips, raises and so on? Will deltoids for instance get any work done to them by military press etc.

I see you write above that you felt the need of incorporating some isolation exercises in the 5x5. Why is that? Just because you grow bored of the big lifts?

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[Stevo985]

14 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Okay. But lets say you have 20 minutes to workout, and you can do a quick deadlift session or say curls, dips and pulldowns. Assuming you've already performed deadlifts once that week. Would you prioritise DLs over isolation exercises?

If I'd already done everything that week then I'd probably do deadlifts. If I hadn't done the isolation exercises then I'd do those.

To be honest I'm not sure I've ever been in the position where I'm doing an extra session haha!

[Dante_Lockhart]

24 minutes ago, El Zen said:

I usually spend about an hour in the gym. Maybe down to 45 mins if I’m only doing Stronglifts 5x5. 

Yeah I was usually 40-45mins when doing SL5x5. It really was a great workout. Not only for hitting muscle groups and gains, but time wise.

[El Zen]

34 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I see you write above that you felt the need of incorporating some isolation exercises in the 5x5. Why is that? Just because you grow bored of the big lifts?

 

Mainly for variation, but also because I felt sometimes when I plateau on e.g. the benchpress, it is because of my forearms and grip, not my chest, so I’ll add some isolated chest work to compensate. Same with squats, my quads are comparatively stronger than my core. But if I had to choose, definitely I’d do compounds. Isolated work is only every in addition to. 

[wilko154]

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I think @markavfc40 was right though, and I need to increase my calorie intake. I've gone 1500 kcal for a long time to become more defined. But since covid has affected my muscle mass pretty badly, I need to regain some of that mass, and I'm noticing 3-4 workouts a week while working full time and rolling on 1500 kcal, well it's kicking my arse atm.

I think I'm gonna try this. Which is fairly close to what I'm currently doing at 1500, but I will have a breakfast and bigger dinner + adding some shakes and nuts (I'm not do aprox kcal, never actually checked it):

• Breakfast - oat and milk with some jam. (500 kcal)
• Lunch - Normally a salad bowl with tuna and a couple of eggs. But during covid it's been 2 slices of bread, 3 eggs and some butter/salt. (salad is probably around 500 kcal. | Two slices of bread + packet of butter + 3 eggs : 200 + 50 + 210= ca. 500 kcal)
• Dinner - whatever the gf makes. Normally a bowl of pasta or fish or something. I'm guessing the dinner is normally around 800-1000 kcal.
• Sometimes I fill up on some almonds and such in the evening if I'm peckish.
• I do protein shakes the days I feel I'm not getting enough protein of kcal, but normally just one.

So I guess I normal day is around 2000 kcal. Workout days I might hit 2200-2400, but then I've normally eaten too much and feel like shite.

So in NET that means a workout day (which normally is around 500 kcal burned (at the gym): 1700-1900 calorie intake. On a non-workout day I'm at around 2000 kcal (then the next question is how much calories are burned when you're sore and recovering from lifting I read people call it the afterburn effect or something).

Maybe that's a better plan going forward.

1500 cals per day?! Jesus, I would be barely functioning.

You need to looking at your TDEE to calculate the amount of calories you should be consuming to maintain your current weight.

https://tdeecalculator.net/

Once you have this, you can then drop off calories to either bulk or cut. Generally you would drop off between 300 - 500 calories to cut, and increase by 200 - 300 to bulk. In extreme cases you can run a mini cut and drop 700 calories, but this should only be for a week or two if you require.

If you are finding that you aren't losing weight with a 500 calorie deficit, then you should look at increasing your cardio before you begin dropping more calories.

As for muscle mass, it will come back with continued workouts, it just takes time. Muscle memory will mean you will eventually grow back to the pre lockdown size as long as you continue lifting.