TheDon Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Is that the Liverpool who are currently 6th? If we go by the same line of thinking as you have both put on the table. Arsenal are shit, they haven't won anything for years. Arsene Wenger is a poor Manager because anything he has won is in the past. Everton are also crap. They haven't won anything for years and have a Manager who has win pretty much **** all worth mentioning. Liverpool must surely be the same as well? We will agree to disagree. Let me be very clear for the people who suddenly think that Villa are shit because we haven't won anything since 1996, no, I don't count the Intertoto. Aston Villa remain one of the biggest clubs in British football. With the right man in charge, we can climb the table and hopefully fight for a european place year on year. Our history is a proud one, but will not neccesarily get us anywhere with attracting a new Manager. Whilst we all live in the here and now, I would like to think that we can still bring in a Manager who will see Villa for what they are: an enormous club with huge potential. It's not about saying Villa are shit. It's about looking at the draw that the club has to people outside the club. If someone had the choice between managing Spurs or Villa 9 times out of 10, hell 99 times out of 100, they'd choose Spurs, because at the moment Spurs are doing better than us and have a greater potential for immediate success. The point is you can only dine out on the past for so long, you have to actually be competing to become as big a draw as some people think we are at the moment. I totally disagree. A potential manager would first talk to the owners about ambition and funds. Spurs look to be in quite a delicate situation financially and need to make the Champs League again or face having to sell some of their major players. Their plans for a new stadium are up in the air, too. Any football person with a bit of common sense can see Villa have the history, pedigree and potential to compete and win trophies at the very highest level. Clubs like Tottenham don't come close. Take the claret and blue specs off mate. Spurs have taken home over £18m in champions league prize money this season. That's without their share of the market pool, which will be another £10m+. Delicate situation financially my arse. Where does this potential come from? History and pedigree mean nothing in this game. You don't get given a trophy for being the team with the greatest history, and if you did we wouldn't win that one either, it'd go to Liverpool on a public vote. Potential in this game is measured in spending power and squad ability. Spurs squad is better than ours, they most likely have more money available than us, and they have a bigger draw than us because THEY'RE CURRENTLY BETTER THAN US. You can bleat on about history and pedigree all you like, but this is a game that's played in the present not in history books. It doesn't matter how you try to spin it, clubs like Tottenham ARE competing on the highest level. That's what matters. They actually took their shot at finishing 4th whereas we fluffed it twice. That's what the world will look at. That's what will go down in your beloved history books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 It doesn't matter how you try to spin it, clubs like Tottenham ARE competing on the highest level. That's what matters. They actually took their shot at finishing 4th whereas we fluffed it twice. That's what the world will look at. That's what will go down in your beloved history books. I'd say we both took the same punt but they had a manager who could see it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc89 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Any football person with a bit of common sense can see Villa have the history, pedigree and potential to compete and win trophies at the very highest level. Agreed. It is about time this giant awoke and proved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 It doesn't matter how you try to spin it, clubs like Tottenham ARE competing on the highest level. That's what matters. They actually took their shot at finishing 4th whereas we fluffed it twice. That's what the world will look at. That's what will go down in your beloved history books. I'd say we both took the same punt but they had a manager who could see it through. Nail on head. However sad it may seem Spurs are a better club than us at the moment, they have been more successful recently and have a great squad with a manager who has worked wonders for them. They also have the London factor which is always a big draw and most of the sports writers down there seem to be fans. They will never be out of the spotlight. Unfortunately we gambled with MON and he either just was'nt good enough, we weren't lucky enough or the board could see a potential disaster if we carried on spending the way we did, and decided to reign in the wage spending, appointing a successor to the quitter who matched their ambitions. Appointing Houllier has been a mistake but I could see what they were trying to do. Whatever you say about candleface, he's a dodgy word removed but he's a good manager. MON was'nt in the same calibre, although he was perfect for rebuilding Villa as a top 6 side. He'd have never taken us into the Champs League and even then we'd probably have bottled it. I think the future for Villa is to try and be more consistent and finish in the top 8 through building teams of hardworking players, who can be sold on for big bucks due to the closed shop nature of football these days. We will get a chance every so often to win some silverware or finish in the top 4, but football in the upper echelons in england is too predictable, dominated by very few teams. In order to attempt to break that quickly you need to spend what Man City have done; they have spend over half a billion in fees and wages in just 3 years. That is suicidal unless you have a stupidly rich benefactor who does'nt mind wiping out their investment. Randy is not that sort of person and I can see a time when he will look to sell Villa on having made a profit on what he invested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 It doesn't matter how you try to spin it, clubs like Tottenham ARE competing on the highest level. That's what matters. They actually took their shot at finishing 4th whereas we fluffed it twice. That's what the world will look at. That's what will go down in your beloved history books. I'm fairly confident Villa will finish above Spurs next season - just as we usually do according to my history books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoody Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 yes history books, but when you look at the last 10 years we only start to catch them up in terms of 'who finished higher than who' at around the start of last decade. In recent years they have finished higher than us (tight but 3-2 to them in the last 5 years) they have a much better squad than us (one of our best players this season is theirs) and have made more money that us this year as well as getting MUCH MUCH MUCH better worldwide press with which to entice players. We on the other hand have a deficit of £40m to make up, a wage bill 10m more than theirs and a worse squad. History tells us we are very similar clubs, with us the more successful. The present tells us we are similar clubs but they are out performing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2011 Any football person with a bit of common sense can see Villa have the history, pedigree and potential to compete and win trophies at the very highest level. Agreed. It is about time this giant awoke and proved it. You two best ask Mr Lerner to sell up to someone extremely rich then. Right now, it is the only way to get into the CL from a English team. We have Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and probably Man Citeh in the top four this year. Can't see that changing much over the next few years. Liverpool and Spurs will fight it out over the 5/6 places and 7th place is the target for the rest that don't consider themselves relegation fodder and as someone else said, QPR are on the way up this year, in a couple of years bugger knows what they'll be spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoody Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Its true, in a few years in terms of 'being able to bring in players' we could find ourselves 8th with Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, City, QPR, Spurs, Liverpool all ahead of us but Im not sure QPR will go on a spending spree, not sure their fanbase commands a top team presume they will be happy with midtable and securing their PL place for a good long while yet. I really think we'll struggle if we dont make big improvements next season, if we cant fight it out for Europe next season Spurs and Liverpool will be another big step up for us, where as they are catchable if we improve vastly next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 First things first:- 1. You can not fudge the managers position. you have to get the right man. Appointing a 2nd rater - and then trying to compensate by giving him transfer funds - or appointing a DOF over him - or a coach beneath him won't work. Appoint the best bloke you can get or pay the consequences. 2. A good team will be a mixture of young and old - purchased and home bread. I think we need to get from up our own arses about the youth players at VP. Yes collectively they win things - but as individuals making an impression in the prem - only Albrighton and Clarke have coped in the prem - and they are by no means established prem players yet. 3. I believe villa can push for top 4 - its a tough target. And we have to think of ourselves as ready to pounce should one of the big 4 have an off season. 4. Appoint the best bloke - back him as in recent years - a top six place and good cup run - should be considered a good season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 . The present tells us we are similar clubs but they are out performing us. I wouldn't say Villa and Spurs are similar clubs. Villa, in metaphorical terms, are a vintage Rolls Royce whereas Spurs are a nifty, mid-level BMW. Villa are followed by Princes and Prime Ministers, Spurs by Talk Sport presenters. Two very different clubs with very different philosophies. In terms of recent success, the clubs have been performing at similar levels I'll grant you. They're outperforming us this season because of the predicament MON left us in allied to 'Arry doing a very decent job at White Hart Lane. I'm quietly confident we will be back challenging again next season, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc89 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 You two best ask Mr Lerner to sell up to someone extremely rich then. Right now, it is the only way to get into the CL from a English team. Bicks, I disagree strongly with your statement and find it rather insulting to our club. Last season Tottenham did beat the riches of Manchester City to finish fourth, so your view is also flawed in that respect. I do not believe we need to go and hunt a sugar daddy to compete and be successful in the future, nor would I want us to do that. We have the infrastructure and facilities already to be successful. My view would be to build on our qualities and focus on ourselves, rather than worry about other teams. I believe in this football club. And I believe in Randy's vision and ambition. I am confident we can build in the coming years and be fairly successful in the future. Obviously there is no guarantees, but I am a strong believer nevertheless. Proud History, Bright Future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 . The present tells us we are similar clubs but they are out performing us. I wouldn't say Villa and Spurs are similar clubs. Villa, in metaphorical terms, are a vintage Rolls Royce whereas Spurs are a nifty, mid-level BMW. Villa are followed by Princes and Prime Ministers, Spurs by Talk Sport presenters. Two very different clubs with very different philosophies. In terms of recent success, the clubs have been performing at similar levels I'll grant you. They're outperforming us this season because of the predicament MON left us in allied to 'Arry doing a very decent job at White Hart Lane. I'm quietly confident we will be back challenging again next season, though. The point is that history and pride are great and all that, but they don't get you to the upper echelons of the league or champion's league football. It's just foolish pride that people cling onto. Aston Villa have no God-given right to be at the top of Premier League amongst the elite clubs just because we're an old club with history and were one of the founding fathers of league football in the world today. We live in the here and now and Spurs are a better club with a better business model and it is being proven. I don't dwell on pride and history personally, I dwell on the fact that we're in a relegation battle and are lightyears away from teams like Spurs, and fair play to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think we could appoint another foreign manager if GH gets moved upstairs or asked for his opinion or moyes wont come. Poyet could be interesting choice if he is with an experienced head around him for advice like GH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Without a doubt, this next appointment when it comes, will be one of the most important we have ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejoker Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think we could appoint another foreign manager if GH gets moved upstairs or asked for his opinion or moyes wont come. Poyet could be interesting choice if he is with an experienced head around him for advice like GH. I'm not so sure we will go foreign again. Villa have only had 2 foreign managers and neither has been a success (Houllier could change this obviously if he returns). I think Villa is a club that just fits a British manager better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Should be about ability and suitability not where they are from. A manager does not have to be british to work, they just have to be talented at all aspects of their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted April 25, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted April 25, 2011 Without a doubt, this next appointment when it comes, will be one of the most important we have ever made. Funny that, I have thought the same before the announcement of every last manager i can remember! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Without a doubt, this next appointment when it comes, will be one of the most important we have ever made. Funny that, I have thought the same before the announcement of every last manager i can remember! If we want to compete again it is, if the next one fails other clubs will over-take us and we could find ourselves battling mid table for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted April 25, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted April 25, 2011 Without a doubt, this next appointment when it comes, will be one of the most important we have ever made. Funny that, I have thought the same before the announcement of every last manager i can remember! If we want to compete again it is, if the next one fails other clubs will over-take us and we could find ourselves battling mid table for years to come. Dont get me wrong i fully agree. Its just that I always think the next one will be a vital choice for one reason or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 But the next one will not have the whole issue of where we head as a club on his hands. It is VERY important we do not fall behind the next lot of clubs who are also pushing on, we cannot afford to keep swapping manager every 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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