The Arab Spring and "the War on Terror"

[Awol]

Very nasty double bombing of a Kurdish HDP party peace rally in Ankara yesterday. Turkish police blocked medics from getting through and used tear gas and batons on the survivors.

Government trying to blame IS but I reckon this was the President's handiwork. I wouldn't be taking any family holidays there for a while..

[TrentVilla]

My thoughts as as well AWOL re who was responsible.

As for holidays, I agree but then I've never understood why anyone would go to that country.

[Tayls]

My thoughts as as well AWOL re who was responsible.

As for holidays, I agree but then I've never understood why anyone would go to that country.

I went there earlier in the year. Was actually alright... despite my fears...Although naturally we went to a tourist area so didn't see the darker side of what the country has to offer. 

Another 100 people dead - and all for what, exactly? 

[El Zen]

As for holidays, I agree but then I've never understood why anyone would go to that country.

Why not? 

[TrentVilla]

 

Well apart from the potential danger following the beech attack a few months ago,  Turkey is a pretty repulsive country that is at best duplicitous and at worst pretty bloody evil. Obviously that doesn't mean the people are all bad but as a nation they have history. A history of vile conduct that dates back to the old empire and WW1 with their own ethnic genocide.

Sure lots of countries have black marks against them, we certainly do but few quite so many as Turkey certainly not within Europe anyway and not so many that are current.

The government in Turkey instantly declared the bombs that killed 130+ Kurd's this week were the work of ISIS. Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't.

But interesting don't you think there was no police presence, no protection for the crowd despite the previous bomb attacks. Curious, don't you think?

But even if the bombs were the work of ISIS and Turkey seem very keen to prove they were, they seem less keen to admit that they have been supporting ISIS throughout this crisis.

The vast majority of the funding of ISIS comes through oil sales from the seized wells in Iraq and Syria, ISIS is now believed to be able to produce 120,000 barrels a day. The majority of which is transported to Turkey and sold at a discount earning ISIS an estimated $100 to $150 million in 2014 alone.

Then you have the seemingly unrestricted movement of some 8000 European recruits for ISIS passing through Turkey into Syria while at the same time the Kurd's in Turkey were blocked from crossing to support those under siege in Kobane. All the while Turkish tanks sat on the border and watched the slaughter. There have even been reports that ISIS has a recruiting office in Istanbul! There are many many more things that support the accusation that Turkey is supporting ISIS.

This is all completely in keeping with the direction of travel of Turkey politically, where once they were looking to West they are now looking to the South and to the past.

For decades Turkey had a secular state, now they have a Islamist government that share many of the ambitions of ISIS and ultimately the ambition to restore the ancient Ottoman empire. While this government has distanced itself from its previous close relationship with Israel to the extent that Erdogan publicly supported the flotilla attack on the Jewish state. That is a supposed Western Prime Minister openly supporting terrorism.

So personally I don't really know why anyone would want to go there and that is before you even get on to the their seeming fondness for stabbing British football fans and seriously bothering anyone's blonde daughters or girlfriends!

[KHV]

My thoughts as as well AWOL re who was responsible.

As for holidays, I agree but then I've never understood why anyone would go to that country.

Turkey is a lovely country, I was there in June

[Chindie]

 

Well apart from the potential danger following the beech attack a few months ago,  Turkey is a pretty repulsive country that is at best duplicitous and at worst pretty bloody evil. Obviously that doesn't mean the people are all bad but as a nation they have history. A history of vile conduct that dates back to the old empire and WW1 with their own ethnic genocide.

Sure lots of countries have black marks against them, we certainly do but few quite so many as Turkey certainly not within Europe anyway and not so many that are current.

The government in Turkey instantly declared the bombs that killed 130+ Kurd's this week were the work of ISIS. Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't.

But interesting don't you think there was no police presence, no protection for the crowd despite the previous bomb attacks. Curious, don't you think?

But even if the bombs were the work of ISIS and Turkey seem very keen to prove they were, they seem less keen to admit that they have been supporting ISIS throughout this crisis.

The vast majority of the funding of ISIS comes through oil sales from the seized wells in Iraq and Syria, ISIS is now believed to be able to produce 120,000 barrels a day. The majority of which is transported to Turkey and sold at a discount earning ISIS an estimated $100 to $150 million in 2014 alone.

Then you have the seemingly unrestricted movement of some 8000 European recruits for ISIS passing through Turkey into Syria while at the same time the Kurd's in Turkey were blocked from crossing to support those under siege in Kobane. All the while Turkish tanks sat on the border and watched the slaughter. There have even been reports that ISIS has a recruiting office in Istanbul! There are many many more things that support the accusation that Turkey is supporting ISIS.

This is all completely in keeping with the direction of travel of Turkey politically, where once they were looking to West they are now looking to the South and to the past.

For decades Turkey had a secular state, now they have a Islamist government that share many of the ambitions of ISIS and ultimately the ambition to restore the ancient Ottoman empire. While this government has distanced itself from its previous close relationship with Israel to the extent that Erdogan publicly supported the flotilla attack on the Jewish state. That is a supposed Western Prime Minister openly supporting terrorism.

So personally I don't really know why anyone would want to go there and that is before you even get on to the their seeming fondness for stabbing British football fans and seriously bothering anyone's blonde daughters or girlfriends!

Can't disagree with much of this but should clarify that Turkey is still a secular state - it's secular nature is enshrined in its constitution. Despite Erdogan being clearly an Islamist, he's been frustrated by the constitution when he's tried to legislate throughout his reign. It's given Turkey a slightly eccentric position politically, they voted for a man that is at odds with the country's written foundations at a fundamental level.

[Eames]

Very nasty double bombing of a Kurdish HDP party peace rally in Ankara yesterday. Turkish police blocked medics from getting through and used tear gas and batons on the survivors.

Government trying to blame IS but I reckon this was the President's handiwork. I wouldn't be taking any family holidays there for a while..

That was my immediate thought as well. Seems a little too convenient all round really. 

[Awol]

 

Well apart from the potential danger following the beech attack a few months ago,  Turkey is a pretty repulsive country that is at best duplicitous and at worst pretty bloody evil. Obviously that doesn't mean the people are all bad but as a nation they have history. A history of vile conduct that dates back to the old empire and WW1 with their own ethnic genocide.

Sure lots of countries have black marks against them, we certainly do but few quite so many as Turkey certainly not within Europe anyway and not so many that are current.

The government in Turkey instantly declared the bombs that killed 130+ Kurd's this week were the work of ISIS. Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't.

But interesting don't you think there was no police presence, no protection for the crowd despite the previous bomb attacks. Curious, don't you think?

But even if the bombs were the work of ISIS and Turkey seem very keen to prove they were, they seem less keen to admit that they have been supporting ISIS throughout this crisis.

The vast majority of the funding of ISIS comes through oil sales from the seized wells in Iraq and Syria, ISIS is now believed to be able to produce 120,000 barrels a day. The majority of which is transported to Turkey and sold at a discount earning ISIS an estimated $100 to $150 million in 2014 alone.

Then you have the seemingly unrestricted movement of some 8000 European recruits for ISIS passing through Turkey into Syria while at the same time the Kurd's in Turkey were blocked from crossing to support those under siege in Kobane. All the while Turkish tanks sat on the border and watched the slaughter. There have even been reports that ISIS has a recruiting office in Istanbul! There are many many more things that support the accusation that Turkey is supporting ISIS.

This is all completely in keeping with the direction of travel of Turkey politically, where once they were looking to West they are now looking to the South and to the past.

For decades Turkey had a secular state, now they have a Islamist government that share many of the ambitions of ISIS and ultimately the ambition to restore the ancient Ottoman empire. While this government has distanced itself from its previous close relationship with Israel to the extent that Erdogan publicly supported the flotilla attack on the Jewish state. That is a supposed Western Prime Minister openly supporting terrorism.

So personally I don't really know why anyone would want to go there and that is before you even get on to the their seeming fondness for stabbing British football fans and seriously bothering anyone's blonde daughters or girlfriends!

Good post. It's looking very tense between them and Russia at the moment with both teams locking each other up with air to air and surface to air missile radars. A disastrous accident is not beyond the realms of possibility and that would create a very dangerous situation, to put it mildly. 

[Awol]

 

Well apart from the potential danger following the beech attack a few months ago,  Turkey is a pretty repulsive country that is at best duplicitous and at worst pretty bloody evil. Obviously that doesn't mean the people are all bad but as a nation they have history. A history of vile conduct that dates back to the old empire and WW1 with their own ethnic genocide.

Sure lots of countries have black marks against them, we certainly do but few quite so many as Turkey certainly not within Europe anyway and not so many that are current.

The government in Turkey instantly declared the bombs that killed 130+ Kurd's this week were the work of ISIS. Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't.

But interesting don't you think there was no police presence, no protection for the crowd despite the previous bomb attacks. Curious, don't you think?

But even if the bombs were the work of ISIS and Turkey seem very keen to prove they were, they seem less keen to admit that they have been supporting ISIS throughout this crisis.

The vast majority of the funding of ISIS comes through oil sales from the seized wells in Iraq and Syria, ISIS is now believed to be able to produce 120,000 barrels a day. The majority of which is transported to Turkey and sold at a discount earning ISIS an estimated $100 to $150 million in 2014 alone.

Then you have the seemingly unrestricted movement of some 8000 European recruits for ISIS passing through Turkey into Syria while at the same time the Kurd's in Turkey were blocked from crossing to support those under siege in Kobane. All the while Turkish tanks sat on the border and watched the slaughter. There have even been reports that ISIS has a recruiting office in Istanbul! There are many many more things that support the accusation that Turkey is supporting ISIS.

This is all completely in keeping with the direction of travel of Turkey politically, where once they were looking to West they are now looking to the South and to the past.

For decades Turkey had a secular state, now they have a Islamist government that share many of the ambitions of ISIS and ultimately the ambition to restore the ancient Ottoman empire. While this government has distanced itself from its previous close relationship with Israel to the extent that Erdogan publicly supported the flotilla attack on the Jewish state. That is a supposed Western Prime Minister openly supporting terrorism.

So personally I don't really know why anyone would want to go there and that is before you even get on to the their seeming fondness for stabbing British football fans and seriously bothering anyone's blonde daughters or girlfriends!

Can't disagree with much of this but should clarify that Turkey is still a secular state - it's secular nature is enshrined in its constitution. Despite Erdogan being clearly an Islamist, he's been frustrated by the constitution when he's tried to legislate throughout his reign. It's given Turkey a slightly eccentric position politically, they voted for a man that is at odds with the country's written foundations at a fundamental level.

I'm paraphrasing but he was on record as likening democracy to a bus ride that you exit once you reach your destination. Erdogan is definitely of the Muslim Brotherhood school of thought and ultimately wishes to establish a theocratic dictatorship IMO, whether he can succeed is another question.

[TrentVilla]

My thoughts as as well AWOL re who was responsible.

As for holidays, I agree but then I've never understood why anyone would go to that country.

 

Turkey is a lovely country, I was there in June

Oh well I take it all back.

[TrentVilla]

AWOL reports here are claiming Russia has absolutely hammered ISIS over the last 24 hours with something like 86 targets hit. They are claiming to have taken out most of their weapons and ammunition.

Any thought on how accurate this is? It's a little hard to know with the media especially when Russia and Putin are involved.

[El Zen]

 

Well apart from the potential danger following the beech attack a few months ago,  Turkey is a pretty repulsive country that is at best duplicitous and at worst pretty bloody evil. Obviously that doesn't mean the people are all bad but as a nation they have history. A history of vile conduct that dates back to the old empire and WW1 with their own ethnic genocide.

Sure lots of countries have black marks against them, we certainly do but few quite so many as Turkey certainly not within Europe anyway and not so many that are current.

The government in Turkey instantly declared the bombs that killed 130+ Kurd's this week were the work of ISIS. Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't.

But interesting don't you think there was no police presence, no protection for the crowd despite the previous bomb attacks. Curious, don't you think?

But even if the bombs were the work of ISIS and Turkey seem very keen to prove they were, they seem less keen to admit that they have been supporting ISIS throughout this crisis.

The vast majority of the funding of ISIS comes through oil sales from the seized wells in Iraq and Syria, ISIS is now believed to be able to produce 120,000 barrels a day. The majority of which is transported to Turkey and sold at a discount earning ISIS an estimated $100 to $150 million in 2014 alone.

Then you have the seemingly unrestricted movement of some 8000 European recruits for ISIS passing through Turkey into Syria while at the same time the Kurd's in Turkey were blocked from crossing to support those under siege in Kobane. All the while Turkish tanks sat on the border and watched the slaughter. There have even been reports that ISIS has a recruiting office in Istanbul! There are many many more things that support the accusation that Turkey is supporting ISIS.

This is all completely in keeping with the direction of travel of Turkey politically, where once they were looking to West they are now looking to the South and to the past.

For decades Turkey had a secular state, now they have a Islamist government that share many of the ambitions of ISIS and ultimately the ambition to restore the ancient Ottoman empire. While this government has distanced itself from its previous close relationship with Israel to the extent that Erdogan publicly supported the flotilla attack on the Jewish state. That is a supposed Western Prime Minister openly supporting terrorism.

So personally I don't really know why anyone would want to go there and that is before you even get on to the their seeming fondness for stabbing British football fans and seriously bothering anyone's blonde daughters or girlfriends!

Good answer and I'm not going to disagree with much of it. I do think there are plenty of interesting reasons to go to Turkey, though, if you're into history and that kind of thing. 

[TrentVilla]

 

Oh absolutely I am, which is why I'm so aware of Turkey's history. I agree there are plenty of reasons to go from that perspective but most people go for cheap sun.

Given that Turkey thinks it's appropriate to tear gas survivors of a bomb then personally I'd rather look for another country to visit.

As and when or if Turkey has a non Islamist, non terrorist supporting government and stops killing its own citizens then it might be somewhere I visit.

Until then I'll avoid it as I've done with places like Israel which from a historical perspective I'd love to visit.

Besides I've no desire to visit anywhere where I might get killed on a beech or have my head detached.

Edited October 14, 2015 by TrentVilla

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Erdogan is a piece of work. Dangerous man.

 

[omariqy]

 

Oh absolutely I am, which is why I'm so aware of Turkey's history. I agree there are plenty of reasons to go from that perspective but most people go for cheap sun.

Given that Turkey thinks it's appropriate to tear gas survivors of a bomb then personally I'd rather look for another country to visit.

As and when or if Turkey has a non Islamist, non terrorist supporting government and stops killing its own citizens then it might be somewhere I visit.

Until then I'll avoid it as I've done with places like Israel which from a historical perspective I'd love to visit.

Besides I've no desire to visit anywhere where I might get killed on a beech or have my head detached.

Turkish food though.

[bickster]

 

Oh absolutely I am, which is why I'm so aware of Turkey's history. I agree there are plenty of reasons to go from that perspective but most people go for cheap sun.

Given that Turkey thinks it's appropriate to tear gas survivors of a bomb then personally I'd rather look for another country to visit.

As and when or if Turkey has a non Islamist, non terrorist supporting government and stops killing its own citizens then it might be somewhere I visit.

Until then I'll avoid it as I've done with places like Israel which from a historical perspective I'd love to visit.

Besides I've no desire to visit anywhere where I might get killed on a beech or have my head detached.

 

[Wainy316]

Besides I've no desire to visit anywhere where I might get killed on a beech or have my head detached.

 

 

Don't go to Mexico then.  Happened to Kirsty Macoll.

[choffer]

Besides I've no desire to visit anywhere where I might get killed on a beech or have my head detached.

 

 

 

Don't go to Mexico then.  Happened to Kirsty Macoll.

Reluctant, guilty like.

[TrentVilla]

 

AWOL is er AWOL and senior leaders in ISIS are being bumped off.... coincidence? I don't think so