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Tunisia, Egypt, Libya... Arab Countries in Revolt


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i was not saying that i think the islam they are putting into practice was the true islam i was just asking the question and what other posters thought. i do believe islam more than any religion has a huge problem that threatens the destabilization of the world. 

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As long as Middle East instability prevails, shareholders of Raytheon, Lockheed Martin etc., will make a tidy little sum of money. We are well beyond fighting for a cause, we are fighting to keep a sector of the economy humming. It's the most cynical military pursuit in history.

I'm not sure about that.

While I can see that Gov'ts are not condemning the Suadi's as they should be, because the Saudi's buy lots of expensive toys and own lots of expensive proerties in London and NY and so on and pay taxes and all of that, I don't think "we are fighting to keep [Defence contractors] humming...the most cynical military pursuit in history.".

In fact, many would and have argued that we should be fighting but aren't.

 

The current enemy is ISIS, but ISIS is a direct result of a destabilized Iraq, which is a direct result of US led military adventurism. We are fighting in ISIS in every way but with infantry, but as soon as Baghdad falls, there will be infantry deployed there. Obama has no election to win, and the incoming president will not want to look weak. But the politics and the particulars don't really matter in the long run if what you really care about are the quarterly reports from defense contractors. What matters long term to these people is keeping the region unstable. Obama/Clinton/Whoever will send in the newest jet fighter and drone and state of the art weapons system to keep the marketplace of weaponry buzzing. ISIS is a goldmine, and when they are "defeated", a new mortal enemy will require the newest latest shiny new killing machine.

Edited by maqroll
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I always hoped that one day I'd be able to see all great historical sites of Iraq, but even if it does one day become safe, they'll be no point after these **** morons are finished with it  :bang:

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The current enemy is ISIS, but ISIS is a direct result of a destabilized Iraq, which is a direct result of US led military adventurism. We are fighting in ISIS in every way but with infantry, but as soon as Baghdad falls, there will be infantry deployed there. Obama has no election to win, and the incoming president will not want to look weak. But the politics and the particulars don't really matter in the long run if what you really care about are the quarterly reports from defense contractors. What matters long term to these people is keeping the region unstable. Obama/Clinton/Whoever will send in the newest jet fighter and drone and state of the art weapons system to keep the marketplace of weaponry buzzing. ISIS is a goldmine, and when they are "defeated", a new mortal enemy will require the newest latest shiny new killing machine.

 

 

No. Not that. Not that, at all.

Unstable middle East is very bad for everyone. Politicians, arms companies, the people who live there, Oil companies, Shareholders....outgoing and incoming Presidents, Israel, Despots, Palestine...

 

The only part I agree with is the situation has resulted in part from the intervention of Bush and Blair, which unleashed the genie from the bottle.

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The current enemy is ISIS, but ISIS is a direct result of a destabilized Iraq, which is a direct result of US led military adventurism. We are fighting in ISIS in every way but with infantry, but as soon as Baghdad falls, there will be infantry deployed there. Obama has no election to win, and the incoming president will not want to look weak. But the politics and the particulars don't really matter in the long run if what you really care about are the quarterly reports from defense contractors. What matters long term to these people is keeping the region unstable. Obama/Clinton/Whoever will send in the newest jet fighter and drone and state of the art weapons system to keep the marketplace of weaponry buzzing. ISIS is a goldmine, and when they are "defeated", a new mortal enemy will require the newest latest shiny new killing machine.

No. Not that. Not that, at all.

Unstable middle East is very bad for everyone. Politicians, arms companies, the people who live there, Oil companies, Shareholders....outgoing and incoming Presidents, Israel, Despots, Palestine...

 

The only part I agree with is the situation has resulted in part from the intervention of Bush and Blair, which unleashed the genie from the bottle.

This.

The Middle East has just about survived in recent years on the basis that, whilst it's unstable and tense, the instability is predictable, controllable, and (counterintuitively) 'stable'.

ISIS is a wildcard that threatens that, and big business hates uncertainty. What affects big business ultimately affects everything else, and as the world is now globalised, ISIS are costing everyone money, making everything infinitesimally more difficult at every stage... Etc etc.

Arms manufacturers benefit more abruptly from wars, because wars for all their horror tend to be slow and predictable ACD large scale. Fighting ISIS, in the little that the West is, isn't going to be swelling the coffers of many, and isn't going to massively benefit anyone from a pure greed or power perspective.

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The regular clashes happening in the three way battle in Syria between Assad, ISIS and Al-Nusra/Moderates/FSA is a goldmine for illegal small arms dealers. You can bet the sales of Kalashnikovs and RPGs are massive, but that doesn't benefit BAE Systems of Lockheed Martin one bit. The only larger weapons manufacturers that will be getting something are the Russians selling to Assad.

 

As for everything else, it's not a "perpetual war" that the West wants a-la-1984. It's terrible for global finance in a region dominated by oil.

 

The longer time goes on, the more the history books might start reflecting on how INCREDIBLY F**KING STUPID Bush and Blair were.

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Soooooo.........one of the most important sites in human civilisation has been taken over by our Pedigree Chums in ISIS, and the very likely outcome is that they'll blow the place up.

 

 

Cheers guys, great contribution.

 

Was interested to see that as headline news this morning. I'm not saying that sites of historical importance aren't, well, important but it would seem to me that the slaughter, rape and murder of thousands just doesn't seem quite as high a priority.

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The only part I agree with is the situation has resulted in part from the intervention of Bush and Blair, which unleashed the genie from the bottle.

 

2lb2kag.jpg

 

Don't forget me.

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Baghdad won't fall to IS for two main reasons. During the Iraqi civil war from about 06-08 if became almost entirely Shia and IS don't have the combat power to win an urban battle on that scale. Secondly IF that looked like a potential outcome the Iranians would send an army (rather than the current militia/Al Quds force contributions) over the border to defend it.

The second scenario would cement the IS narrative that what's going on now is an existential "righteous" Sunni vs "heathen" Shia war, putting the Saudis head bangers in a pretty pickle and pretty much ensuring the permanent division of central (Sunni) and southern (Shia) Iraq.

It would certainly suit IS' purposes to engineer that scenario so permanently threatening Baghdad and unleashing mass terror attacks within it is most probably their current goal.

I'd suggest that right now IS pose a greater threat to Damascus than Baghdad.

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I can't imagine Israel are too chuffed about the prospect of IS controlling a region on their borders.

All joking aside IS are not a credible threat to the Red Sea Pedestrians, the combined might of 6 Arab armies got dusted the last time they tried.

From the Israeli perspective the various jihadi groups have turned half the Middle East into a self mowing lawn. Their interest is for this to just keep rolling on.

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The regular clashes happening in the three way battle in Syria between Assad, ISIS and Al-Nusra/Moderates/FSA is a goldmine for illegal small arms dealers. You can bet the sales of Kalashnikovs and RPGs are massive, but that doesn't benefit BAE Systems of Lockheed Martin one bit. The only larger weapons manufacturers that will be getting something are the Russians selling to Assad.

 

As for everything else, it's not a "perpetual war" that the West wants a-la-1984. It's terrible for global finance in a region dominated by oil.

 

The longer time goes on, the more the history books might start reflecting on how INCREDIBLY F**KING STUPID Bush and Blair were.

But what we are seeing is nonetheless a boon to weapons manufacturers. The Iraqi and Jordanian armies are directly armed by the US. And the longer this drags on, the more likely it will develop in to an actual ground war scenario all over again, which equals $$$ for everyone with a vested interest in continued mayhem over there. It might not be a net benefit to "Global Finance", but for specific sectors it absolutely is. That was my original point.

Edited by maqroll
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I don't think IS can be stopped without troops on the ground. Whose troops go in is another matter.

Not ours, Osborne's minions have already been on to the MOD demanding further cuts. This parliament the Tories are going to finish the job they started on the armed forces in 2010. Good job the world is so peaceful right now or we might actually need them...

Edit: Just read elsewhere that the Treasury might be after 18% of the MOD budget. It's difficult to overstate what a disaster that will be to UK defence capability. In light of this thread topic and other emerging threats it's beyond bonkers.

Edited by Awol
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Soooooo.........one of the most important sites in human civilisation has been taken over by our Pedigree Chums in ISIS, and the very likely outcome is that they'll blow the place up.

 

 

Cheers guys, great contribution.

 

They should be bombed into oblivion. 

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