Rugeley Villa Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 i'll never get over reading about this very beautiful and very intelligent palestinian woman becoming a suicide bomber and killing herself for the struggle her people were going through. she was a lawyer and i would not say she was an extremist but she felt she had to go and blow herself up and kill a load of innocent people, tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Children of Gaza is on itv at 9pmAlso 1 year ago 551 children were massacred by the israelies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Its on bbc2 sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendelc Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Them Hamas training camps look a lot of fun . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 8, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'm no fan of Israel. At all. I've been pretty stringent in my standpoint on that. Even my dissertation was on the extent to which Israel's actions in the conflict constitutes state terrorism. But I listened a podcast the other day with a guy called Sam Harris. He's an outspoken atheist and 'intellectual'. He was asked why he wasn't as harsh in his criticism of Israel and Jews as he is of Muslims and overtly Islamic countries (lolcoshesracist notwithstanding). It was an interesting listen, in short and missing the nuance he is critical of both but Islam etc represents a worse threat. I mention this as he made a point I'd not heard before, to my knowledge, about the conflict, that startled me somehow. He noted that Israel has committed atrocities in the conflict. But then he raised this point - what would each side do if they had the capability of doing whatever they wanted? Israel is entirely capable of eliminating the Palestinians. They have an advanced military, they have resources. They could tomorrow crush Gaza and the West Bank in their entirety, forever. They do have the capability of doing anything already in essence. But they don't wipe out Gaza. Hamas, on the other hand, has the destruction of Israel in it's fundamental doctrines. You'd have to assume, given that capability, they would follow their charter. Their actions without that power suggests as much. Of course that doesn't mean that all Israelis wouldn't wipe out Palestinian territories, or that all Palestinians would set out to wipe out Israelis. I'm not sure how I feel about this point, whether I agree or not, to one extent or another, etc. But it caught my thoughts, for such a simplistic point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will87 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Similar can be said about America. How many times do you hear 'well America are the real terrorists! / 'they've killed more people than ISIS!' etc. Could you imagine if ISIS (and a great many other groups/countries) had America's military might, we'd all be dead already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I don't think a comparison between Israel and ISIS is very credible, the West Bank today is more like a 3.5 star version of the Warsaw Ghetto circa 1944... Not entirely sure I understand the logic of this post. Comparing A to B isn't valid because the product of A is like an upgrade of the product of a completely unrelated C? Fair comment, it wasn't very clear. IS tend to go in for swift if grizzly execution (of males anyway) when they target minorities. By contrast the Israelis wall them in, harass them, kill arbitrarily, cut them off from their arable land and water supplies and occasionally bomb or shell the crap out of them. The Warsaw Ghetto comment was in reference to that, although clearly it's 'Ghetto light' in comparison to the original. Different MO but broadly the same end state - i.e. the target group eventually becoming, ahem, ex-minorities. I suppose that in the end Zionism and Wahhabism both represent the absolute worst instincts of the Abrahamic faiths, the poster boys of religious hatred. I don't however think most Israelis fit that description, while 100% of IS certainly do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Bombing the shit out of Gaza every couple years, imprisoning them, controlling all of their supplies right down to building material, continuing to build houses on land that is not theres against the geneva conventions. Id say israel are on par with isis if not worse. Also, of course hamas will rocket israel, imagine somebody moved into your house pushed you out and made you live in the shed at the bottom of the garden controlling all of your supplies. What would you do? Try and get your house back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Interesting image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'm no fan of Israel. At all. I've been pretty stringent in my standpoint on that. Even my dissertation was on the extent to which Israel's actions in the conflict constitutes state terrorism. But I listened a podcast the other day with a guy called Sam Harris. He's an outspoken atheist and 'intellectual'. He was asked why he wasn't as harsh in his criticism of Israel and Jews as he is of Muslims and overtly Islamic countries (lolcoshesracist notwithstanding). It was an interesting listen, in short and missing the nuance he is critical of both but Islam etc represents a worse threat. I mention this as he made a point I'd not heard before, to my knowledge, about the conflict, that startled me somehow. He noted that Israel has committed atrocities in the conflict. But then he raised this point - what would each side do if they had the capability of doing whatever they wanted? Israel is entirely capable of eliminating the Palestinians. They have an advanced military, they have resources. They could tomorrow crush Gaza and the West Bank in their entirety, forever. They do have the capability of doing anything already in essence. But they don't wipe out Gaza. Hamas, on the other hand, has the destruction of Israel in it's fundamental doctrines. You'd have to assume, given that capability, they would follow their charter. Their actions without that power suggests as much. Of course that doesn't mean that all Israelis wouldn't wipe out Palestinian territories, or that all Palestinians would set out to wipe out Israelis. I'm not sure how I feel about this point, whether I agree or not, to one extent or another, etc. But it caught my thoughts, for such a simplistic point. https://youtu.be/HX-UPcrejHc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm rather unsure about the dubious logic that takes him from 'because the Israelis could kill everyone in Gaza tomorrow but don't' it means 'when they drop a bomb on a beach and kill children then it's almost certainly an accident'. I also question the claim that they take great pains not to kill children and non combatants because with every child killed they 'edge ever closer to becoming an international pariah'. As soon as he started going in to that kind of thinking I hard to turn off because it was like listening to a watered down version of Mark Regev. Fair enough about the Hamas stuff and the difficulty Israel finds itself in sat surrounded by peoples that would like to see it (and Jews) no longer exist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 9, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yeah that was part of my issue with it. There are some leaps and assumptions. I agree to some extent, I don't think the Israelis are going to wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth, or even want to, whereas I think most of the Middle East would commit genocide of Jews in a heartbeat, but I don't think Israel is that bothered if, in defending itself, it kills more kids than it could do... Hence then being a state terrorist. And so on. I think there's some good stuff in there, it isn't without error though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yeah that was part of my issue with it. There are some leaps and assumptions. I agree to some extent, I don't think the Israelis are going to wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth, or even want to, whereas I think most of the Middle East would commit genocide of Jews in a heartbeat, but I don't think Israel is that bothered if, in defending itself, it kills more kids than it could do... Hence then being a state terrorist. And so on. I think there's some good stuff in there, it isn't without error though. I think Israel are already wiping Palestine off the map tbh, if you look at the 1967 borders compared to now where Israel refuse to actually confirm where their borders are. And yes Hamas would take the land of the Palestinians back off Israel in a heartbeat if they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You only need to look at the Talmud itself which the zionist goverment of Israel follow to see how much they value arabs in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You only need to look at the Talmud itself which the zionist goverment of Israel follow to see how much they value arabs in general. It's pretty tame in comparison to the Qu'ran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm telling you the problem isn't Israel, Hamas or anybody else. It's people in general. We're all scum!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 speak for yourself 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Awol, what's the latest in the Middle East my man? I've said it before, but, I love reading your updates on events! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Awol, what's the latest in the Middle East my man? I've said it before, but, I love reading your updates on events! It's f***ing hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 isis have apparantly blew up a baby in a training exercise the father was executed and the baby was left an orphan as his mother was dead, anyway the baby had explosives strapped to it and was then blew up as part of an exercise on how to detonate explosives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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