Player Jean II Makoun

[ozvillafan]

For me there's no doubt that Makoun is a very good player. The question for me is whether he's suited to play in the PL, and even more important, suited to play for Aston Villa. I think he's shown some glimpses that he can be good for us, but I can also admit that the jury's still out on him. At least for me. Some seems to already have made their mind up. In both directions.

I'm not convinced.

If he's a "very good player", then he's suited to the premier league.

If he's a "very good player", the he's suited to the style we want to play because we should get the best out of our best players. Moreover - given that this "very good player" is a central midfielder - the team should be built around him rather than picking others over him to fit a style.

McLeish not picking him means 1 of 2 things:

a) He's not a "very good player", or

McLeish cannot play a style that suits our "very good player"

Like you, I haven't seen enough to make an informed decision.....

... but I fear it's more likely the latter than the former.

[Demitri_C]

berson mk 2 it would seem

[Big_John_10]

We're not Barcelona and we're not Bolton or Blackburn under big Sam. We can be direct but we also look to keep the ball and pass it round. Makoun is not a wonder player we need to build around.

If he's not suited to Aston villa then it's because he's too limited of a player and i think if he's that limited then he's not a very good players.

Ireland, Delph, Petrov and bannan are all players who like the ball passed to feet and look to keep the ball. These players are suited to Aston villa because they all offer more than a simple 5 yard pass.

[Pelle]

For me there's no doubt that Makoun is a very good player. The question for me is whether he's suited to play in the PL, and even more important, suited to play for Aston Villa. I think he's shown some glimpses that he can be good for us, but I can also admit that the jury's still out on him. At least for me. Some seems to already have made their mind up. In both directions.

I'm not convinced.

If he's a "very good player", then he's suited to the premier league.

If he's a "very good player", the he's suited to the style we want to play because we should get the best out of our best players. Moreover - given that this "very good player" is a central midfielder - the team should be built around him rather than picking others over him to fit a style.

McLeish not picking him means 1 of 2 things:

a) He's not a "very good player", or

McLeish cannot play a style that suits our "very good player"

Like you, I haven't seen enough to make an informed decision.....

... but I fear it's more likely the latter than the former.

Not being suited to the PL doesn't mean you're not a good player. Forlan and Veron are two examples of players not making it in the PL, not being suited for it. Would you not call them good players? Not comparing the two with Makoun as such. Veron for me was one of the best players in the world at his peak.

Struggling with the pace of the english game is mostly the reason why tehy're not suited to it, and I think that very much is Makouns problems. And maybe the physical strength.

[TrentVilla]

I was talking about his ability to thread balls through and bypass the midfield. If we have a player playing in between midfield anddefence like Ireland or Bannan then this is a good attribute to have. I've seen him play plenty of these balls. In fact I saw 2 or 3 in the extended highlights against Hereford. I also saw it last season against everton, fulham, man u and in pre season against Walsall and Braga.

I'm not really sure how a midfield player is able to bypass the midfield but anyway...

You may have been impressed with the 'extended' highlights which I'd imagine ran for 2 or 3 minutes but I was at the game and I'm sorry but I just wasn't impressed with him or his game.

I think any kind of comparison to Alonso on any kind of level or on any aspect of their play is completely unjustified, there is no similarity between the two players.

I'm not saying he is a bad player or that he won't make it (although I have my doubts) but I will not agree with anyone who says his performance against Hereford was anything other than distinctly average.

His performances for us so far have been average I'd love him to prove to be a good addition and make us a better side but I just don't see it happening.

[steaknchips]

Whats suited to the Premierleague?

Makoun is a footballer and a very good one at that..He is suited to play the game of "football"...Whether or not he fits in with the style McLeish likes to play is another story. But this "Premierleague suited" is a load of balls..Are Aresenal Premiership suited? Or Stoke? Or Spurs? As all 3 teams play different and have different players..

Whilst Makoun may not be the style of player McLeish likes, he may well be the style Redknapp or Wenger like.

[Alec]

The problem with Makoun is I don't think any of us can really tell how good he is. So far the only thing he has really demonstrated is that he is good at moving the ball effectively, but his passing range seems distinctly limited, rarely extending beyonmd half a dozen yards. He had an opportunity to impose himself on a game on Tuesday night against Hereford and didn't. Sitting in the role he was given, he could've dictated the play without covering a massive amount of ground given that Ireland and Bannan were playing in more advanced positions, but he did little more than the bare minimum you would expect.

I don't sense any drive or urgency in his play - despite evidently being a quick thinker - and for one of the senior players on the pitch, he didn't exhibit any sign that he was inclined to take responsibility for taking the game for the opposition, content to do his little portion which consists mainly of shuffling the ball to the next nearest man.

That kind of player may well be seen as an asset in other leagues, but they will always struggle to make an impact here unless those attributes are combined with others (such as the ability to break up the opposing team's play or man-mark one of their key attackers, neither of which Makoun possesses). If he is to make it here, he will have to adjust to us and the Premier League, not the other way around. I wouldn't write him off yet but there is no getting away from the fact that he looks very lightweight.

[TrentVilla]

The problem with Makoun is I don't think any of us can really tell how good he is. So far the only thing he has really demonstrated is that he is good at moving the ball effectively, but his passing range seems distinctly limited, rarely extending beyonmd half a dozen yards. He had an opportunity to impose himself on a game on Tuesday night against Hereford and didn't. Sitting in the role he was given, he could've dictated the play without covering a massive amount of ground given that Ireland and Bannan were playing in more advanced positions, but he did little more than the bare minimum you would expect.

I don't sense any drive or urgency in his play - despite evidently being a quick thinker - and for one of the senior players on the pitch, he didn't exhibit any sign that he was inclined to take responsibility for taking the game for the opposition, content to do his little portion which consists mainly of shuffling the ball to the next nearest man.

That kind of player may well be seen as an asset in other leagues, but they will always struggle to make an impact here unless those attributes are combined with others (such as the ability to break up the opposing team's play or man-mark one of their key attackers, neither of which Makoun possesses). If he is to make it here, he will have to adjust to us and the Premier League, not the other way around. I wouldn't write him off yet but there is no getting away from the fact that he looks very lightweight.

A very good synopsis in my view that.

[Pelle]

The problem with Makoun is I don't think any of us can really tell how good he is. So far the only thing he has really demonstrated is that he is good at moving the ball effectively, but his passing range seems distinctly limited, rarely extending beyonmd half a dozen yards. He had an opportunity to impose himself on a game on Tuesday night against Hereford and didn't. Sitting in the role he was given, he could've dictated the play without covering a massive amount of ground given that Ireland and Bannan were playing in more advanced positions, but he did little more than the bare minimum you would expect.

I don't sense any drive or urgency in his play - despite evidently being a quick thinker - and for one of the senior players on the pitch, he didn't exhibit any sign that he was inclined to take responsibility for taking the game for the opposition, content to do his little portion which consists mainly of shuffling the ball to the next nearest man.

That kind of player may well be seen as an asset in other leagues, but they will always struggle to make an impact here unless those attributes are combined with others (such as the ability to break up the opposing team's play or man-mark one of their key attackers, neither of which Makoun possesses). If he is to make it here, he will have to adjust to us and the Premier League, not the other way around. I wouldn't write him off yet but there is no getting away from the fact that he looks very lightweight.

A very good synopsis in my view that.

Yep, that is well put.

[omariqy]

I was talking about his ability to thread balls through and bypass the midfield. If we have a player playing in between midfield anddefence like Ireland or Bannan then this is a good attribute to have. I've seen him play plenty of these balls. In fact I saw 2 or 3 in the extended highlights against Hereford. I also saw it last season against everton, fulham, man u and in pre season against Walsall and Braga.

I'm not really sure how a midfield player is able to bypass the midfield but anyway...

You may have been impressed with the 'extended' highlights which I'd imagine ran for 2 or 3 minutes but I was at the game and I'm sorry but I just wasn't impressed with him or his game.

I think any kind of comparison to Alonso on any kind of level or on any aspect of their play is completely unjustified, there is no similarity between the two players.

I'm not saying he is a bad player or that he won't make it (although I have my doubts) but I will not agree with anyone who says his performance against Hereford was anything other than distinctly average.

His performances for us so far have been average I'd love him to prove to be a good addition and make us a better side but I just don't see it happening.

Yeah I agree on the extended highlights part, I can't really tell how well he played - I may as well watched a youtube video. I am not saying that he will or won't make it. But I have been impressed with aspects of his game and aspects he needs to improve. He's obviously a very talented player to play for Lyon in the Champions League and be touted by some big clubs. I think we need to give him time. Writing him off in his 8 or so games is in my opinion ludicrous - btw I am not saying you are writing him off. But others seem to be. I hope to see him put in the performances I think he is capable of by the middle of the season, once he has a few more games under his belt.

[R.Bear]

Wow, some of the opinions in here are scary.

Be it writing off Makoun after 7 games or saying he is not a Premier League type of player. The fact that we aren't basing our team around a player like Makoun is why we have been unable to break down rubbish teams at home consistently. Flair players or midfielders who are able to pick a pass are as rare around VP as a fan who doesn't moan.

[macandally]

He would be much more suited to a better team than us, i said after his debut that he is too good for us and i still believe that,

I hope your right as I don't see him being a regular in our side anytime soon but if you are correct the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Boas, Mancini, Dalglish, Redknapp perhaps even Mourinho and Guardiola etc will all be sniffing around him, we can have a bidding war, make a fortune on him, and go and buy someone who fits in better with a team of our standing.

Nicely over the top there!

Makoun looks like a fish out of water in our team because frankly, we are not a good enough footballing side to integrate him. His only chance of having a part to play is in a midfield three alongside other technically adept players such as Bannen and.......................therein lies the problem.

Technically very good but has no place in a side whose football philosophy appears to amount to up the wings or lay it back for Collins to lump forward.

[Alec]

He would be much more suited to a better team than us, i said after his debut that he is too good for us and i still believe that,

I hope your right as I don't see him being a regular in our side anytime soon but if you are correct the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Boas, Mancini, Dalglish, Redknapp perhaps even Mourinho and Guardiola etc will all be sniffing around him, we can have a bidding war, make a fortune on him, and go and buy someone who fits in better with a team of our standing.

Nicely over the top there!

Makoun looks like a fish out of water in our team because frankly, we are not a good enough footballing side to integrate him. His only chance of having a part to play is in a midfield three alongside other technically adept players such as Bannen and.......................therein lies the problem.

Technically very good but has no place in a side whose football philosophy appears to amount to up the wings or lay it back for Collins to lump forward.

Given one of the criticisms most people would have of our performances so far this season is a lack of width and the fact that the goals scored against Blackburn have come from passing moves that have seen the team move the ball impressively through the middle of the park, suggesting McLeish's philosophy 'amounts to up the wings' or 'Collins lumping it' seems over the top itself. It's certainly not accurate.

If Makoun doesn't make it here, it won't be because he's too good for us - it will be because he wasn't good enough to adapt or improve his limited game.

[macandally]

He would be much more suited to a better team than us, i said after his debut that he is too good for us and i still believe that,

I hope your right as I don't see him being a regular in our side anytime soon but if you are correct the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Boas, Mancini, Dalglish, Redknapp perhaps even Mourinho and Guardiola etc will all be sniffing around him, we can have a bidding war, make a fortune on him, and go and buy someone who fits in better with a team of our standing.

Nicely over the top there!

Makoun looks like a fish out of water in our team because frankly, we are not a good enough footballing side to integrate him. His only chance of having a part to play is in a midfield three alongside other technically adept players such as Bannen and.......................therein lies the problem.

Technically very good but has no place in a side whose football philosophy appears to amount to up the wings or lay it back for Collins to lump forward.

Given one of the criticisms most people would have of our performances so far this season is a lack of width and the fact that the goals scored against Blackburn have come from passing moves that have seen the team move the ball impressively through the middle of the park, suggesting McLeish's philosophy 'amounts to up the wings' or 'Collins lumping it' seems over the top itself. It's certainly not accurate.

If Makoun doesn't make it here, it won't be because he's too good for us - it will be because he wasn't good enough to adapt or improve his limited game.

The outball from defence consists of up the wings or lump it from Collins, I would estimate 70% of our play is this way.

Dont be fooled by the fact he is playing wingers on opposite wings so they can cut in instead of hitting the byline.

[TrentVilla]

Makoun looks like a fish out of water in our team because frankly, we are not a good enough footballing side to integrate him. His only chance of having a part to play is in a midfield three alongside other technically adept players such as Bannen and.......................therein lies the problem.

Technically very good but has no place in a side whose football philosophy appears to amount to up the wings or lay it back for Collins to lump forward.

I will presume from this that you weren't at the game on Tuesday.

First, Collins wasn't playing and we weren't lumping the ball forward.

Second, Bannan played and Ireland isn't exactly lacking in technique.

Third, although we had two wingers on the pitch we weren't playing 442 and they weren't playing as traditional wingers.

So you don't really have much of a point there.

[omariqy]

To be fair our first goal came from good wing play by Gabby and Bent. Our second goal was too easy and we wont get that space against most teams in the league. The third goal was pretty lucky and great finishing from Bent. Nothing I have seen so far suggest to me that we have been playing brilliant football. It's very much MON style play. However BIg Eck does seem to have a plan B. We saw this when Bannan came on. This is the plan that I am most excited by as I think players like Bannan, Makoun and Ireland would never have had a chance under MON. I hope Eck gives them a go.

[Alec]

He would be much more suited to a better team than us, i said after his debut that he is too good for us and i still believe that,

I hope your right as I don't see him being a regular in our side anytime soon but if you are correct the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Boas, Mancini, Dalglish, Redknapp perhaps even Mourinho and Guardiola etc will all be sniffing around him, we can have a bidding war, make a fortune on him, and go and buy someone who fits in better with a team of our standing.

Nicely over the top there!

Makoun looks like a fish out of water in our team because frankly, we are not a good enough footballing side to integrate him. His only chance of having a part to play is in a midfield three alongside other technically adept players such as Bannen and.......................therein lies the problem.

Technically very good but has no place in a side whose football philosophy appears to amount to up the wings or lay it back for Collins to lump forward.

Given one of the criticisms most people would have of our performances so far this season is a lack of width and the fact that the goals scored against Blackburn have come from passing moves that have seen the team move the ball impressively through the middle of the park, suggesting McLeish's philosophy 'amounts to up the wings' or 'Collins lumping it' seems over the top itself. It's certainly not accurate.

If Makoun doesn't make it here, it won't be because he's too good for us - it will be because he wasn't good enough to adapt or improve his limited game.

The outball from defence consists of up the wings or lump it from Collins, I would estimate 70% of our play is this way.

Dont be fooled by the fact he is playing wingers on opposite wings so they can cut in instead of hitting the byline.

I'm not fooled by anything. We simply aren't playing wingers at all at present - even N'Zogbia looks like more of a deep lying forward at the moment, drifting inside every chance he gets. I personally think we may be more effective if we did have more of an outlet out wide on both flanks, but N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor will always make us look narrower than what we had become used to with Downing and Young. Only when Albrighton has appeared have we seen a player hug the touchline so far this season (and, unfortunately, Albrighton seems sadly out of sorts).

And whilst Collins is guilty of trying too many Hollywood balls, most of our play against Fulham and Blackburn stemmed from the deep positions that Petrov and Delph took up (they were key to the build-up of each of our three goals) and time and again we kept moving the ball into dangerous central areas just outside of the opposition 'D'. This is how I see McLeish setting us up to hurt teams this season, and in fairness, it looks promising - we just need a player with superior technique and less brute force than Heskey to be the player who chiefly benefits from this. Though he has played well so far - and the truth is he has probably been more involved in all of our play in the final third than any of our other attacking players so far - a player like Bannan or Ireland would be my preference.

What does this have to do with Makoun? Well, this could be a position that some may suggest he could be suited to, but it would involve him advancing into more dangerous positions than he has so far shown a willingness to, so the other two would be ahead of him in the pecking order. In this formation, there's only really one position that he could play well in and that's taking up Delph's role alongside Petrov (not the other way around as both still need the strength and experience of Petrov alongside them). But Delph looks like the better player at present - stronger in the tackle, more energetic, greater composure running with the ball.

And this is why it is likely going to take a serious injury or someone incurring a three-match ban for Makoun to get a look-in on the basis of what we've seen from him so far.

[macandally]

Makoun looks like a fish out of water in our team because frankly, we are not a good enough footballing side to integrate him. His only chance of having a part to play is in a midfield three alongside other technically adept players such as Bannen and.......................therein lies the problem.

Technically very good but has no place in a side whose football philosophy appears to amount to up the wings or lay it back for Collins to lump forward.

I will presume from this that you weren't at the game on Tuesday.

First, Collins wasn't playing and we weren't lumping the ball forward.

Second, Bannan played and Ireland isn't exactly lacking in technique.

Third, although we had two wingers on the pitch we weren't playing 442 and they weren't playing as traditional wingers.

So you don't really have much of a point there.

Trent, that was a second eleven put out against a team lying 91st of out 92 league teams. The formation matched the personnel I would suggest, not the other way round.

If that blows my arguement out of the water then I run up the white flag!

[Hanky]

Wow, some of the opinions in here are scary.

Be it writing off Makoun after 7 games or saying he is not a Premier League type of player. The fact that we aren't basing our team around a player like Makoun is why we have been unable to break down rubbish teams at home consistently. Flair players or midfielders who are able to pick a pass are as rare around VP as a fan who doesn't moan.

Not writing him off as such. Just wondering what he offers to the team other than a quick short five yard pass that our other midfielders (Petrov, Delph, Ireland, Bannan) can all complete.

All of these other players mentioned have other attributes that Makoun has not shown as of yet which has worried me about him.

[TrentVilla]

Makoun looks like a fish out of water in our team because frankly, we are not a good enough footballing side to integrate him. His only chance of having a part to play is in a midfield three alongside other technically adept players such as Bannen and.......................therein lies the problem.

Technically very good but has no place in a side whose football philosophy appears to amount to up the wings or lay it back for Collins to lump forward.

I will presume from this that you weren't at the game on Tuesday.

First, Collins wasn't playing and we weren't lumping the ball forward.

Second, Bannan played and Ireland isn't exactly lacking in technique.

Third, although we had two wingers on the pitch we weren't playing 442 and they weren't playing as traditional wingers.

So you don't really have much of a point there.

Trent, that was a second eleven put out against a team lying 91st of out 92 league teams. The formation matched the personnel I would suggest, not the other way round.

If that blows my arguement out of the water then I run up the white flag!

Well start running that white flag up the pole.