The_Rev Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Well he played in a different role before Guardiola took over. Under Rijkaard the Barcelona strike force were Ronaldiho and Eto'o with Messi being used in a much deeper role. Since Ronaldinho left the club and Messi moved forward his strike rate has been ridiculous. 222 games, 216 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 i think we can just call time on the arguement, Messi is the greatest to ever play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 no it wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkinsk11 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I really think its getting to the stage were its not even an argument any more.. was at the champs league game last season when he scored 5 unbelievable will be one to tell the grand kids about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 He still needs that world cup. No matter what you think about the importance of a World Cup, you cannot deny that somebody who saw Maradona drag Argentina to the World Cup in '86 are well within their rights to have an argument about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Yeah agreed, when messi wins the world up. No one can deny he is the best to ever play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 He's not even the best player in La Liga. Ronaldo has a much inferior team at both club and International level, in my opinion. He produces far more than Messi for country when it matters and is obviously brilliant at club level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Even then they can. The point has been raised many times in this thread that it is impossible to compare eras. Messi has stats like no other player, but he is playing at a time when the gap between the best teams and everybody else is bigger than it ever has been and he is playing in an era where defenders cant kick the most talented forward out of the game. What would a player like Gerd Muller have scored had he been around today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Indeed, you can argue a player is the best of his time, but comparing accross different eras is near impossible. How many people here saw Pele play on a regular basis? Or Maradona, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkinsk11 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 No one man has ever dragged a team to anything! i find it amazing that anyone whos played the game at any level can say that. The whole Maradona '86 world cup is completely over blown. All round that was a very good side or they wouldn't have got anywhere, as good as Maradona was he was shit in goal and even worse at left back. A great player gives you that extra 10% but if you are start at 30% then i don't care who its that team wont win. It be great if Messi wins a world cup but he legend wont rest on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Depends on how you look at it. What about Platini for France in 1984? Ronaldo for Brazil in 2002? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkinsk11 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Depends on how you look at it. What about Platini for France in 1984? Ronaldo for Brazil in 2002? Are you saying Ronaldo dragged Brazil to the 2002 world cup? (1984 is before my time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 No, but I am saying he is the reason they won the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkinsk11 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Brazil Team in the final.. some good players there. Every team has a star man and some are more of a star than others but 1 man does not win the a tournament, this ain't tennis [1] MARCOS (GK) [2] CAFU © [3] LUCIO [4] ROQUE JUNIOR [5] EDMILSON [6] ROBERTO CARLOS [8] GILBERTO SILVA [9] RONALDO (-90') [10] RIVALDO [11] RONALDINHO (-85') [15] KLEBERSON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Yeah, I have Google too. To avoid a repeat of the thread going around in circles, I think Messi is a **** brilliant player. He has a serious gap in his CV though, he hasnt been the best player in a successful world cup and other players who were the best in the world during the time they were active have. I'm not saying that makes them better, but I am just stressing the point as hard as I can that Messi hasnt done what others have yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkinsk11 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Congrats on google, great isn't it... Yeah i know what your saying just. I'm stressing the point that i don't think these others actually did what you think they did. and i wouldn't class it a serious gap in his CV, he probably will though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Saying Messi needs to win the world cup to be the GOAT is like saying Federer needs to win the Olympics singles or Tiger Woods needs to win the World match play. They've stood head and shoulders above everyone at a higher standard of competition, winning every last thing would cement their status but can't really be held against them. IMO the standard of football at international tournaments is nowhere near CL level or major club level. They are played over a short space of time by squads that spend only a few days a year together. If you need to win one to be in the argument for GOAT then Best & Weah must be shite cause they never even played in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 The standard of International tournements being worse should surely mean it's easier for a top player to dominate though? Messi hasn't scored in a competition since 2007 which is hardly great, so they can't be that shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 The standard of International tournements being worse should surely mean it's easier for a top player to dominate though? Messi hasn't scored in a competition since 2007 which is hardly great, so they can't be that shit. Not really, they come at the end of a long season for Messi, almost invariably as Barca go far in every competition. Usually he's played 50+ games by the time the tournament comes around. Also his national team had an insane coke fiend in charge for most of his career, which can't help. I can't really be arsed to argue tbh, there will never be a consensus GOAT and with something as subjective as that it's arrogant to think nobody can argue any opinion other than your own. Still, I don't really accept that winning the WC is a prerequisite for consideration (or that not winning it is some kind of black mark on your career). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Argentina look pretty decent at the moment. Won their last 5 including away v Germany and a 4-3 v Brazil. Leo has scored in all 5. He'll be in his prime in 2014 and will never get a better chance to do 'a Maradona' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts