Lionel Messi

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Winning a world cup isn't exactly an easy achievement to do when you have Spain around and with Argentina, shite managers.

Messi won't win things single handedly, simply because I think modern football, (could be wrong on this) but there is far more 'tactics' in the game now that mean teams get 10 men behind the ball, even good one's like Germany, 10 men behind ball and counter attack with so much pace, so unless you have a team full of great players, you won't win anything because individuals, whoever they are, are easier stopped. I'm only guessing but seems to me, say 25 years ago, games were far more open, more space in games, against bigger teams.

swap Messi for Maradona in the Argentina team now and I really doubt he'd of changed the fortunes of 'em in the world cup in my opinion.

[Zatman]

I think Maradona would have as he played in the toughest most tactical league of probably all time for a team the equivalent of Sunderland and won 2 league titles. Also Maradona played in a nastier era were you could get kicked and not get a free-kick

[joey55]

Winning a world cup isn't exactly an easy achievement to do when you have Spain around and with Argentina, shite managers.

Messi won't win things single handedly, simply because I think modern football, (could be wrong on this) but there is far more 'tactics' in the game now that mean teams get 10 men behind the ball, even good one's like Germany, 10 men behind ball and counter attack with so much pace, so unless you have a team full of great players, you won't win anything because individuals, whoever they are, are easier stopped. I'm only guessing but seems to me, say 25 years ago, games were far more open, more space in games, against bigger teams.

swap Messi for Maradona in the Argentina team now and I really doubt he'd of changed the fortunes of 'em in the world cup in my opinion.

I don't think there are more tactics, they just get spoken about more and blown out of all proportion. There is just far more media and fan discussion about the game now. In those days tactics were more of a behind the scenes thing, whilst nowadays everyone has a say (and it's 99% bollocks). It was actually harder for Maradona as refs didn't give players the protection they do today. Also, Maradona was one of, if not the best passer of the ball, which is rarely spoken of as he's remembered for his eye catching dribbling and tricks. Messi is as good as Maradona whilst running with the ball, but in terms of all round games can't be compared. The 86 Argentina side was nothing special and Maradona carried them. He really could have done the same in the last world cup, as when on form he was simply unplayable. As others have mentioned he carried Napoli to 2 league titles in what was, at the time, the best and most tactical league in the world. I don't think there has ever been or ever will be an individual player that has had such a huge influence on a team at the highest level. Put Maradona in the England team back then and we would have won the world cup, as him apart Argentina were no better than us. You can't really say that of Messi given his impact on the international scene to date.

[joey55]

Here's clip of some of Maradona's passing for some of the younger guys who perhaps didn't get to see him play and therefore probably know him more for his dribbling skills. You have to remember there aren't the hundreds of games to search through to make these clips for him, as there are for modern players and therefore the vast majority these passes were made at international tournaments and were taken from a pool of less than 30 games. When you consider that Xavi and Iniesta are up for the world player of the year award and largelly it's becasue of their ability to make special incisive passes that decide games, it shows just how good Maradona was, as he can pass like them and dribble like Messi and all on shitty pitches.

[OutByEaster?]

Maradona remains the best ever for me. His ability to protect the ball that allowed him to wait until the opposition commit four or five players to get the ball off him then spring a team mate is ridiculous.

[ChrisNichollsToe]

Maradona remains the best ever for me. His ability to protect the ball that allowed him to wait until the opposition commit four or five players to get the ball off him then spring a team mate is ridiculous.

I will never understand why Taylor never signed him

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Here's clip of some of Maradona's passing for some of the younger guys who perhaps didn't get to see him play and therefore probably know him more for his dribbling skills. You have to remember there aren't the hundreds of games to search through to make these clips for him, as there are for modern players and therefore the vast majority these passes were made at international tournaments and were taken from a pool of less than 30 games. When you consider that Xavi and Iniesta are up for the world player of the year award and largelly it's becasue of their ability to make special incisive passes that decide games, it shows just how good Maradona was, as he can pass like them and dribble like Messi and all on shitty pitches.

Fair enough, I can't really make a comparison because didn't see Maradonna.

I think people probably under estimate Messi's passing too mind, he makes a lot of goals and his passing is as good as anyone there is, especially for sheer clever incisive through balls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t8qPQrZz3U

I think Messi is more than just dribbling to be fair.

[joey55]

Here's clip of some of Maradona's passing for some of the younger guys who perhaps didn't get to see him play and therefore probably know him more for his dribbling skills. You have to remember there aren't the hundreds of games to search through to make these clips for him, as there are for modern players and therefore the vast majority these passes were made at international tournaments and were taken from a pool of less than 30 games. When you consider that Xavi and Iniesta are up for the world player of the year award and largelly it's becasue of their ability to make special incisive passes that decide games, it shows just how good Maradona was, as he can pass like them and dribble like Messi and all on shitty pitches.

Fair enough, I can't really make a comparison because didn't see Maradonna.

I think people probably under estimate Messi's passing too mind, he makes a lot of goals and his passing is as good as anyone there is, especially for sheer clever incisive through balls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t8qPQrZz3U

I think Messi is more than just dribbling to be fair.

He's definitely a great passer, as is Ronalninho, but I don't think either of them do it to the extent that they can make decent, but nothing special team, look great, as Maradona did. I think you can say Iniesta and Xavi are also awesome passer, as are most of the Barca team, but they are set up to play pass and move football. I'm not convinced they'd be able to to do the same without such great players around them.

[guyavfc]

I think Messi needs to leave barca and try the italian league or the premier league to be described as the best footballer ever. Maradonna did it in a very tough italian league as did Ronaldo. Having said this Messi is still so young so he has plenty of time to experiment in different leagues.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Perhaps, It is a shame they aren't in the same era. I still think though, if Messi carries on this form for a little while, he'll be known as the best, no doubt top 3. At the moment, he is scoring or creating at least 2 times a game which is unbelievable. I'm only going on few ESPN classic videos I've seen, so probably unfair but I still believe 25 years to go, of course there were tactics but I don't think you ever saw like pure 10 men behind the ball, almost in the space of 30 yards, setting up as a block, usually even the best players had more space, although they definitely were kicked and tackled a lot more but that's what people like Messi want. People diving in and trying to kick them, makes them easier to move past than 2 players just simply watching the ball and making sure they don't allow him to dribble.

I shouldn't really comment further as I don't know much about it but just short from what I've seen. If only they played at the same time.

[Zatman]

I cant agree. Italian football was the worst for defences and some of them teams make Chelsea look like Brazil.

Also I think Messi is a brilliant player but defences I think have got a lot worse in last 20 years. I cant really think of a defender now who would be among greats 10-15 years ago.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Italian Defences didn't matter surely as much (still mattered of course) considering he played more of a midfield role than a forward role?

[joey55]

Messi and Maradona aside, if ever you get chance, download one of the Brazilian games with Pele playing. Watching him play has got to be the biggest let down you're likely to see in football. The guy is spoken about as the best ever player and honestly from what I've seen I couldn't put him even in the top tier. I don't understand why he's held in such high esteem in Britain, as surely we didn't get coverage of South American football in the 50's, 60's and 70's, so how do they base these opinions of him? He was very good in the WC games I've seen, but from what i saw not even comparable to the likes of Maradona and Messi. I went to the effort of downloading games from a warez site and it was a disappointment to say the least.

[Troglodyte]

If Messi wins a World Cup he'll definitely be talked about for years to come as the best player of all time. And it'd be fully deserved.

[theunderstudy]

For me, despite my youth, fat Ronaldo is still the best I'VE seen live, however I've seen Best and Pele and Maradona and Charlton and Puskasin a few clips and read their various exploits, so he's not the GOAT, although he COULD be.

In my lifetime

Brazilian Ronaldo

Zidane

Messi

Scholes

Xavi

Of all time

Pele

Garrincha

Zidane

Maradona

Messi

Cruyff

Muller

Yashin and Banks

Charlton

Scholes

Xavi

I know I'm missing loads but IMO Garrincha was the best winger ever to have played, and barely anyone knows who he is.

In fact at the Maracana, away dressing room is called Pele, home dressing room is called Garrincha.

[PieFacE]

Gareth Bale > Messi.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

bale

e.moore

bent

messi

ronaldo (brazzil)

my top 5.

[jonno_2004]

If he can do what he does now in the Premier League - fair enough.

[ED]

Of all time

Scholes

[kurtsimonw]

Messi and Maradona aside, if ever you get chance, download one of the Brazilian games with Pele playing. Watching him play has got to be the biggest let down you're likely to see in football. The guy is spoken about as the best ever player and honestly from what I've seen I couldn't put him even in the top tier. I don't understand why he's held in such high esteem in Britain, as surely we didn't get coverage of South American football in the 50's, 60's and 70's, so how do they base these opinions of him? He was very good in the WC games I've seen, but from what i saw not even comparable to the likes of Maradona and Messi. I went to the effort of downloading games from a warez site and it was a disappointment to say the least.

I have to say I agree with the Spurs fan.

I think the reason he's held in such high regard is that he did dominate games in the World Cup. But international football was a bit shit during his career and if you only watched Klose's World Cup games he looks like a top player, when in reality he's shit.