Ratings and Reactions: Villa 2-4 Arsenal

[dudevillaisnice]

The lack of movement from throw ins.

That has been a problem for decades, it's like it's the law or something

It's not only from throw ins either. The movement all over the pitch seems to be woeful in quite a lot of our games. The players just don't want to move for the ball and don't create any options. This is something that the better teams do with ease.

Oh and I forgot to talk about Downing earlier. I'm not going to pin the defeat on him, yet I was disappointed in him. He has been doing really well lately. Yesterday though he looked like he couldn't be bothered at times and just stood there a few times when he could have done something. Hopefully it was a blip in the rather good season he is having thus far.

Agree, the players tend to stay marked, ive only seen bannan and ireland move to find space, the rest seem to like being marked - like carew for example and ash.. move into space!

[ozvillafan]

you want our defence to go forwards yet how many times were we caught out by through balls or balls over the top. Part of the problem was trying to play to high a line.

If only that were true. Take the 3rd goal as an example - the back line was about 5 yards forward of the box but the throughball caught us.

I don't expect our back line to be any better defending higher up the pitch, but it would make life more difficult for Arsenal if we compacted them a little more, giving their midfield less room and ours more chance to get in their face. As it was, we had Clark, Bannan and even Carew camped in our own half for most of the game - usually 5 yards from our box - and chasing shadows as their midfield was given time and space to pick their passes.

Players like A Young, Downing, Bannan and even Clark are comfortable with the ball to feet and in tight places. Sure, Arsenal are a better side - but we never gave ourselves a chance to out-play them.

[OutByEaster?]

Sitting back and playing on the break is the GH way, don't let any talk of "continental football" confuse you about that, its always been the way he's set his teams up.

Sitting back and playing on the break is continental football isn't it?

Anyway, I'd agree that's how he's always set his teams up historically, but he seems to have gone bonkers since he's arrived here - it's certainly the most attacking style I've seen from a Houllier team - and our inability to play by sitting back and playing on the break is exactly why we lost to Arsenal. If anything we're much too open at the moment.

It could just be down to injuries and it'll be interesting to see how we play when Petrov / Reo Coker / Sidwell / Delph are back, but at the moment I think he's played a progressive attacking midfield shape which is out of keeping with what I'd have expected.

[lapal_fan]

My attitude at the moment is **** VILLA.

waste of time. Nothing is working at the moment but we keep making the same mistakes. We basically have another manager who wont change things, except at least MON didnt lose all the **** time..

[Ulver]

Sober thoughts on the game, the morning after

1. The first half was the worst performance i've witnessed in a long, long time. And that includes Newcastle away. There was absolutely nothing in that first 45 minutes to cling onto going into the break. The passing was dire, we created nothing (apart from the chance Ash had) and all in all it was truly shocking.

2. Downing is wasted on the right. Ash now looks half the player wide as he does in the free role to my eyes.

3. Carew has had it. His sharpness/desire is shot and he's of no threat to the opposition at all.

4. I love Ciaran, I love his composure and ability to not rush anything. He reminds me of a young Barry in that respect. BUT he's not a midfielder. He never will be either. He doesn't have the body for it. He doesn't move like a midfielder either. But that lad has the ingredients to be a fine centre back given time to learn his trade. He will make mistakes, but thats all part of the learning curve.

5. I love wee Barry. The lad has the talent and heart to be a great player. BUT he was understandably found out yesterday. Maybe if he'd been alongside a dogged/defensive partner (and I mean a proper midfielder) then he could've propored more. Alas Arsenal are sublime with their passing/movement and better players than ours will be destroyed by them this season.

6. The defence. At times yesterday, Warnock and Young played as bad as i've seen fullbacks play for a long time. The pair of them want a good kick up the backside and to realise what their jobs in the side are. Getting forward is all very well, but first and foremost they are DEFENDERS. And they should remember how to play as a back 4 and quick.

Dunne still worries me but played a bit better, Collins looked all over the shop. The concentration levels between them is AWOL at the moment. They need to get back to basics and become a UNIT again.

7. Ireland. For once he looked interested, well half interested. He can keep the ball and not give it away, which is exactly what we need. The problem is he's shown nothing to make me trust he'll do it game in game out. At one point yesterday he played a lovely little pass wide, and instead of then moving to make himself available again, he casually just stood and admired his own pass as if to be saying 'did you see that?'

Stephen, that just isn't good enough mate!

[barry'sboots]

You aren't offside until you touch the ball now, every pundit in the world seems to have forgotten that with Clark's goal.

Where did you get this from. This is not my understanding - you don't have to touch the ball to be "interfering" as far as I am aware?

[markavfc40]

It's all the same people that got on MON's back that are getting on GH's.

It really isn't.

Bicks is right.

I'm actually finding that many of the ones that got on the previous managers back are struggling to see any fault in Houllier and looking for any excuse, bar poor management, for our poor results and often tripe performances under him.

[Villaboy69]

IMO Yesterdays performance or lack of lies squarely at the managers feet. Everybody knows that when you play Arsenal you have to be right in their faces. Squeezing the play, pressing in midfield and if necessary roughing them up.We sat back, played deep and allowed Arsenal to do what they do best.

I was fuming at half time because we saw what we could do against Manure when we press and play at high tempo, so why send the side out like that.

I'm a little concerned cuz it was exactly the same against sha. Surely the performance against Man U shows we are so much better when we play at high tempo.

Sort it our GH or we could be in for a very very long season

[barry'sboots]

Really disappointed with yesterday's efforts.

Things started badly with Ged's selection. I've seen a lot of comment on how Ged and JC don't get on but I think he must be his best mate to play him yesterday. He has been shocking for the last 18 months or so and has never been a lone striker anyway. He is firmly our fourth choice striker as far as I am concerned and should be well behind Nathan now. Nathan looked a different proposition altogether when he came on and started looking for the ball and thinking. Pires was also a terrible selection and should never have been on there as a starter in front of Ireland, even if the latter has not yet settled in.

Arsenal have good players (whether you like them or not) that pass and move and you have to stop them before you stand a chance. We had too many players that couldn't participate in this - JC not mobile enough to start from the front; Pires was never great at this but is even worse now; and Ash and DJ are never really involved in this type of thing. We needed a firm foundation, and that means three CM'ers that could get on top of the Arsenal three.

Despite their dominance in the first half, both of their goals were our fault: Collins and Young schoolboy errors for the Arshavin goal and terrible marking on the corner for the second goal. Friedel did, however, make a great save from Chamak. I felt Friedel was too slow for their third goal and should have been off his line much quicker. Fourth goal was a little irrelevant for me and down to us going for it.

Friedel - 6 - good shot stopper but too slow of his line for my liking and needs to be more vocal with his defence. I think McGregor in January would be an excellent move.

L Young - 5 - Schoolboy error for first goal. Didn't see his performance as as bad as many on here.

Warnock - 5 - ditto.

Collins - 4 - Not good enough.

Dunne - 5 - ditto.

Clark - 6 - Looked a bit lost but I felt this was partly a formation issue as he and Bannan were two against three. Better in H2 and his goals were great.

Bannan - 5 - As for Clark, he got a bit lost against the Arsenal three and had to drop deeper and deeper to get on the ball to give us some impetus.

Pires - 3 - Wrong decision by Ged and didn't see the point. Neat on the ball but should never be on from the start now.

Downing - 5 - He looked so much better on the left IMO and is clearly our best "footballer" when on the ball. He does not track back BUT we need to realise this and play a more solid three if we are playing him and Ash as wingers.

Ash - 4 - Tried. Some neat touches, BUT why can't he take on a full back any more. I believe we could improve as a team if we got £20m for Ash.

JC - 0 - complete waste of time and space now. If we can get something for him in January that would be fantastic.

The Fonz - 6 - good when he came on. Movememt, intent, bit of attitude and a complete contrast to that waster JC.

Ireland - 5.5 - decent when he came on and, hopefully, the start of his rehabilitation.

Herd - not enough time to rate.

Ged - 4 - Poor selection initially. I did like his willingness to change things early.

[srsmithusa]

It seems to me that our defenders can all put in brilliant performances. We've seen this same 4 be a rock wall. It looks to me that when they were rock solid they seemed to be all on the same page and playing intelligent team defense. When they look like 4 individuals it all goes wrong very quickly. IF I'm right, where did they get that ability to think as one, and how do they get it back?

(I played on the wing and never paid any attention to how my defenders sorted out their marks and positioning.)

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

It's all the same people that got on MON's back that are getting on GH's.

It really isn't.

Bicks is right.

I'm actually finding that many of the ones that got on the previous managers back are struggling to see any fault in Houllier and looking for any excuse, bar poor management, for our poor results and often tripe performances under him.

There is only one person I can recall who has made a judgement of Houllier on his capabilities as manager in a positive way.

There are a lot of people who liked Mon (I did)....but now seem not able to give the new manager at least a chance.

Alot of us are just simply defending a manager until we believe is the right time to cast our judgements on his work at Aston Villa, well which for me will be around this time next year we can get a real feel for how he will do, new players bought in, some of the old/not good enough lot gone, a full pre-season to get the players sharp, work on what he wants, team shape and hopefully get a consistent line up which then can be rotated at times throughout the season.

[dudevillaisnice]

I liked MON, never agreed with his hoofball though but was happy with him as a manager, was frustrated with his last minute transfer market deals (as it meant throughout summer i was bored) but other then that he was a good manager.

Houllier will also get the time MON had before i judge him - so far im ok with him as a manager.

[Shillzz]

First time ive been on since Saturday, when I was raging and ready to hand my season ticket back in. Spent most of the long journey back to south Wales scripting an angry post that would be going the General's way, but thought better of it.

My thoughts:

Too many players didnt seem bothered and this is what upset me massively. Young & Carew were the main culprets for me.

Very predictable that people are slating Warnock. He had a dodgy first five minutes, but beyond that he was the one putting the most effort in. Infact he was the only one showing any kind of passion. Im growing increasingly tired of the criticism that he's receiving when he's one of only a few players who show they care.

No leadership on the field. After Arsenal scored everyone just turned around and starting walking back towards the half way line. No communication what so ever, Petrov would be screaming the last rights at this stage and we miss him massively.

Ireland looked better when he came on.

Bannan & Clark found it difficult to get any time on the ball. Lovely couple of goals from Clark though.

Downing tried and had an off day, which is far more forgivable than those who didnt seem fussed.

Tactics? Probably should have started the Fonz, but thats easy to say in retrospect.

Thoughts going into next game?

HELP!

[flashingqwerty]

Why do we defend so deep?

I think Houllier didn't do his homework with Arsenal. You need to get at them and be aggresive. Don't give them the time and space to play. We were happy to sit deep and let them play the ball around.

i think the chamckh goal shows why we defend deep, he strolled past dunne because dunne is pathetically slow and goes to ground far too easily.

If he spent half as much time trying to usher his man out wide rather than lunging in and going to ground like a maniac we'd concede half as many goals.

[VillaEire]

For me I've written this season off once MON walked out the way he did. It's a transitional time for us now. The fact that Bannan, Clark, Delfouneso and Albrighton are getting this experience under their belts will stand us in good nick in the long term. They have had 2 very different lessons in the last couple of weeks. Blackburn bullied them physically and then Arsenal did us with their movement. The young lads can only learn from this and will be better because of it.

I just hope we have good runs in the cups because I think midtable is all we are going to get in the league. I look forward to next season.

[sherl]

The lack of movement from throw ins.

That has been a problem for decades, it's like it's the law or something

agreed. my mrs has the misfortune of talking about this weekly - villa i reckon give the ball to the opposition from at least 50% of throw ins we've had for about 7/8 years.

[Richard]

Dire first half, one of the worst I have witnessed at VP for years to be honest. At 2-0 it could and should have been worse and I feard an absolute hammering

Marginally better second half, though not much and 2 goals absolutely flattered us and basically owed more to the fact that Spurtz came back against these last week and how that affected their confidence than anything we could muster

On Pires, I was told it was a brilliant signing for an impact sub. How come he started then? Will he be a egular starter now?

[Shillzz]

Also, the atmosphere at the ground was sub-pathetic.

The players were not up for it and neither were the fans. Yet the fans only criticse the players, seems odd.