brommy Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh, and I almost forgot we got their bloody 'problem child' as part of the deal. Someone somewhere was a little naive at the time me thinks... Pretty much all of us id say, the general feeling being that we had got the better deal. Sometimes these things dont work out. Speak for yourself. I found it beyond laughable that people had managed to convince themselves that we'd gotten the better player. Too right. Milner out, Ireland in was never going to be a good deal. Even with the money we got, it was still a **** terrible bit of business. We should have held out for a straight cash deal. If a straight cash deal wasn't available, should we have said no and risked losing Milner 12months later on a free? At least we got £18m + someone who could be sold for around £5m. £23m is a lot to lose out on for one season of a player who wanted to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellyoakvilla Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be inclined to give up if they knew they had a talent but their employer wasn't interested. If I was sacked or not put on the rota at work I'd be very disappointed and tempted to give up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be inclined to give up if they knew they had a talent but their employer wasn't interested. If I was sacked or not put on the rota at work I'd be very disappointed and tempted to give up too. It's no good having a talent but then not showing the work ethic to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_The_Villan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be inclined to give up if they knew they had a talent but their employer wasn't interested. If I was sacked or not put on the rota at work I'd be very disappointed and tempted to give up too. Quite. But the fact that Ireland has absolutely no desire whatsoever to turn things round and make the manager consider him speaks volumes. Where is the desire to succeed?? Its just not there. And i can see why hes not too bothered seeing as hes on 80k a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. If we got £2m that would mean we received £20m for Milner. At the time there were plenty of VTers happy to get such a figure, especially as Milner wanted to leave. Most of a season later, I suspect many citeh fans still think they over paid us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. good i wouldnt want to sell him for some such pathetic money. he is worth more than that, he just needs abit of confidence and belief. i think this is a good move as if he plays well down there we can get more money for him if GH decides to sell, or we have a talented palyer returning back to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be inclined to give up if they knew they had a talent but their employer wasn't interested. If I was sacked or not put on the rota at work I'd be very disappointed and tempted to give up too. What an appalling attitude. So whilst the rest of the country work their balls off for £20k p/a, it's okay for Stevie to sit around picking up near that per day without applying himself, cos his boss doesn't like him. awwww, poor him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellyoakvilla Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be inclined to give up if they knew they had a talent but their employer wasn't interested. If I was sacked or not put on the rota at work I'd be very disappointed and tempted to give up too. What an appalling attitude. So whilst the rest of the country work their balls off for £20k p/a, it's okay for Stevie to sit around picking up near that per day without applying himself, cos his boss doesn't like him. awwww, poor him. No - he was pushed out at Man City, didn't play for over a year for the team he supports, grew up with and loves and then came to Villa right at the time where the manager left and the team was going through drastic changes. We had no manager for his opening stint here and he was played in the wrong position in a 6-0 defeat at Newcastle in his first game... he then fell out of favour with a manager who prefers a team who track back at every given opportunity and he's a "luxury" player who is class at what he is meant to do but not much better at anything else. He's never had to track back at Man City, but please don't forget the fact he was playing with a bunch of reserves and youth for the majority of his playing time at this club. Once he has some playing time in an established team he will be a great asset. --------------------Bent---------------------- ------------------Ireland--------------------- Downing - Makoun - Reo Coker - A.Young Much better than having Hogg and Bannan playing behind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Villan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be inclined to give up if they knew they had a talent but their employer wasn't interested. If I was sacked or not put on the rota at work I'd be very disappointed and tempted to give up too. Quite. But the fact that Ireland has absolutely no desire whatsoever to turn things round and make the manager consider him speaks volumes. Where is the desire to succeed?? Its just not there. And i can see why hes not too bothered seeing as hes on 80k a week. If he had no desire to succeed, then I doubt very much he'd have moved to Newcastle on loan just so he could play. He'd have sat on his cash and done nothing, like Beye. The lack of desire thing is a myth that came about mainly because of his laid back style on the pitch, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 21, 2011 The lack of desire thing is a myth that came about mainly because of his laid back style on the pitch, in my opinion.Myth? One man's 'laid back style' is another man's 'lack of desire'. To me the 'lack of desire' thing is not a myth because it's exactly what he showed on the pitch. He didn't have a laid back style at Citeh. That's not what he does. He is a quick attacking centre mid. He's not in the Paul Scholes style of attacking mid. What he has shown at Villa, bearing in mind the style he had at Citeh, tells me he had a lack of desire. Our willingness to ship him out while keeping the likes of Bannan here is another telling detail IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Villan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The lack of desire thing is a myth that came about mainly because of his laid back style on the pitch, in my opinion.Myth? One man's 'laid back style' is another man's 'lack of desire'. To me the 'lack of desire' thing is not a myth because it's exactly what he showed on the pitch. He didn't have a laid back style at Citeh. That's not what he does. He is a quick attacking centre mid. He's not in the Paul Scholes style of attacking mid. What he has shown at Villa, bearing in mind the style he had at Citeh, tells me he had a lack of desire. Our willingness to ship him out while keeping the likes of Bannan here is another telling detail IMO. Would help if you hadn't cropped out half of my post. I think what I said about him going to Toon also proves it's not a lack of desire, in contrast to Beye. Our willingness to ship him out could be for a number of reasons, 'a lack of desire' is the one you chose to believe, it's not a solid gold fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted February 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted February 21, 2011 I only cropped because my main point was about what I have seen on the pitch rather than on the move to Newcastle. We took a high-octane attacking centre mid who then just decided to be laid back? Doesn't wash for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-Villan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I only cropped because my main point was about what I have seen on the pitch rather than on the move to Newcastle. We took a high-octane attacking centre mid who then just decided to be laid back? Doesn't wash for me. To me it's connected. I'm not sure he was ever high octane either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 He's dead to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 He's dead to me. :shock: He might have shown he was a lazy arse on the pitch (I'm glad his shorts didn't have pockets for his hands), but 'dead' is a bit strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I doubt we would get 5m for Ireland now. Its almost like hes given up, and its plain for everybody to see. I'm pretty sure the majority of people would be inclined to give up if they knew they had a talent but their employer wasn't interested. If I was sacked or not put on the rota at work I'd be very disappointed and tempted to give up too. What an appalling attitude. So whilst the rest of the country work their balls off for £20k p/a, it's okay for Stevie to sit around picking up near that per day without applying himself, cos his boss doesn't like him. awwww, poor him. No - he was pushed out at Man City, didn't play for over a year for the team he supports, grew up with and loves and then came to Villa right at the time where the manager left and the team was going through drastic changes. We had no manager for his opening stint here and he was played in the wrong position in a 6-0 defeat at Newcastle in his first game... he then fell out of favour with a manager who prefers a team who track back at every given opportunity and he's a "luxury" player who is class at what he is meant to do but not much better at anything else.He's never had to track back at Man City, but please don't forget the fact he was playing with a bunch of reserves and youth for the majority of his playing time at this club. Once he has some playing time in an established team he will be a great asset. --------------------Bent---------------------- ------------------Ireland--------------------- Downing - Makoun - Reo Coker - A.Young Much better than having Hogg and Bannan playing behind you. Yes, being forced to join Aston Villa on a mere £80k p/w after earning £100k p/w at Man City must have been terribly difficult, having to relocate and entire 60 odd miles must have made it much harder as well, what with rising travel costs etc.........though I guess the few million he had as a payoff must have meant a decent weekend for him at least anyway. For the record, he joined Aston Villa after MoN had left, so that isn't even nearly an excuse for me where he's concerned. Played in the wrong position - how dare we expect a midfielder to play in midfield. He fell out of favour with everyone, including the manager largely due to inept displays. I think you'll find the vast majority of managers like for their players to track back, it shows desire and commitment. You're right about one thing, he's a luxury player, though I'd disagree with you about him being "class at what he does", unless what he does is nothing and then yes, I'd agree, he's **** class at doing nothing. He's never had to track back at Man City, but please don't forget the fact he was playing with a bunch of reserves and youth for the majority of his playing time at this club. Once he has some playing time in an established team he will be a great asset. This bit is brilliant, particularly. Tracking back is basically running, running after someone, chasing them if you will. If SI is incapable of this due to a lack of training and experience then I would have concerns way beyond those already existing. As for the second part, he started off as a youth player so yes, he will have played with youth players, he then broke into the first team and maintained it for what, 18 months? 2 years? At which point something went wrong and he found himself out of the first team, did he at this point redouble his efforts? Perhaps not, and given his antics since joining us I'd suggest probably not. Some people are indefensible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I only cropped because my main point was about what I have seen on the pitch rather than on the move to Newcastle. We took a high-octane attacking centre mid who then just decided to be laid back? Doesn't wash for me. He is not the only one to under perform/not look the same player under Houllier though is he. Majority of the players have under performed under him. It seems that a few have been singled out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Ireland never really performed for mancini either, this loan spell will give us alot to think about i think.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoody Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Ireland has an appalling attitude when he came to us. It was werid from the off, he never wanted to come to us and was practically forced out at Man City, yes that doesn't bode well for us but he just needs some time to get back into the game. He hada great season under Hughes but he would never be given a chance after Sheikh came in. We will see what he is made of at Newcastle. I personally don't hold much hope for him being able to return to our club. If he performs well I would expect Newcastle to buy him for £6m. If he does poorly I suspect we will be lumbered with him. If he does somewhere in the middle I expect us to take him back and give him another chance next season. I really hope he comes good because he would be a huge asset to us if he was in form and if we can get some form out of him it could save us some money in the Summer window. Young + Ireland fighting for the place in the hole would be perfect (ideally Ireland). Doesn't mean having to push Young out of the squad. We are so used to having a Starting 11 and then a bunch of high-paid crap behind that starting 11 it seems to me that some of us don't ever register the need for rotation (could be said our managers have always forgotten the concept too). I hate using Tottenham as an example but they are the closest thing to us. Same goals and same formation. ---------------Striker Winger--------AMC-------Winger ------------Mid----Mid Fullback---Def----Def---Fullback For those crucial 3 positions behind the striker they have: Bale, Pienaar, Modric, VDV, Krancjar, Lennon, Bentley (On Loan). We only have: Young, Albrighton, Downing, Ireland (on Loan). My point is, even with our current players, we - ideally - need another winger who can play both sides. On paper Ireland and Young *should* be our best players behind the Striker (IMO Downing and Albrighton have been). Selling them both shouldn't be an option unless we have investment in place to replace them both + 1. I think we can make do with what we have at the moment. But if we are serious about Europe. Whether it is Europa League or Champions League we need more rotation in our squad. For me that means 2 For in the hole (minimum) and 4 on the wings (including AMC players who can play on the wing). (before anybody moans at me again saying we need to concentrate on defence - I agree but shouldn't forget other areas of our squad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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