The Night The Dream Died - Why Martin Left IMO

[SumoVillan]

I agree with the poster. What with this summer's world cup and the comings and goings at VP I'm genuinely starting to lose my love of the game.

It was gutting to see Milner and Barry celebrating in blue shirts.

What's most galling about Man City is that they have improved whilst at the same time systematically weakening a Villa team who 2 years ago was probably one of their strongest rivals and were teetering on the edge of genuine progress.

I can't agree the posters comments abount class. The fact Milner and Barry have been poached attests to the class in the team and on his day, Young fits into the same catagory.

I persoanlly don't believe the club would have sold either Barry or Milner to City if the players hadn't forced the issue. It the want-away players that have capped the ambition of the club, not the manager and not the chairman.

Its the want-away players deserting the club that made them a household name who have condemned us to this mediocrity for the next decade.

Last nights celebration was a kick in the guts, not just because of what might have been if those players were still wearing claret and blue, but also because of how easy it is for players whose names we chant in the stands every week to not only move on without a second thought, but to also screw us at the same time!!!

I feel sick.....

[murfee]

I agree with the poster. What with this summer's world cup and the comings and goings at VP I'm genuinely starting to lose my love of the game.

It was gutting to see Milner and Barry celebrating in blue shirts.

What's most galling about Man City is that they have improved whilst at the same time systematically weakening a Villa team who 2 years ago was probably one of their strongest rivals and were teetering on the edge of genuine progress.

I can't agree the posters comments abount class. The fact Milner and Barry have been poached attests to the class in the team and on his day, Young fits into the same catagory.

I persoanlly don't believe the club would have sold either Barry or Milner to City if the players hadn't forced the issue. It the want-away players that have capped the ambition of the club, not the manager and not the chairman.

Its the want-away players deserting the club that made them a household name who have condemned us to this mediocrity for the next decade.

Last nights celebration was a kick in the guts, not just because of what might have been if those players were still wearing claret and blue, but also because of how easy it is for players whose names we chant in the stands every week to not only move on without a second thought, but to also screw us at the same time!!!

I feel sick.....

what he said!!

TV has killed football for the real fan.

[markavfc40]

Cracking post Richard and I agree totally.

No man is bigger than AVFC and no man is irreplaceable but I think we're about to find out just how good a manager Martin was by how difficult it will be to replace him.

Sadly I think some are yet to accept the above and don't think it will be that difficult to replace Martin O'Neill. Unfortunately for all of us I believe the next few years spent out side the top 6 will prove how good a manager we had over the last 4 years.

[barry'sboots]

Saw a good piece earlier that said that Citeh would not be able to play European football in a couple of years time (2012/13 I think) when the Uefa rules - that state that you cannot have lost more than an aggregated 45m euros over the previous years to qualify - will kick in. Citeh's finances are a time bomb in this respect with the amortisation of their transfer fees and large wages really crippling them.

I am sure that this will bring a bit of re-balance and that we might see Citeh & Chelski slip back, with Arsenal coming through (large revenues and ungeared) and we will be in a decent position with a, hopefully, reasonable P&L and strong youth set up. Barca and Madrid will also have to curb their spending to a certain extent. Bayern should become much more of a force. It is going to be very interesting.

"TV has killed football for the real fan."

TV has contributed but it is the mega rich owners of Citeh and Chelski that have distorted things even further.

[Denis_B]

MON fecked off at the worst possible time and in my opinion to do the utmost damage to the club, players, supporters and Randy. He is a total disgrace and I just wish I could tell him to his silly little leprechaun face!

[Richard]

I wonder if MON would have had the same "criticism" had Randy sacked him instead of him walking

[TheSufferingVilla]

Thing is there was 6 or 7 members of staff who's jobs were tied to O'Neill all of whom are now unemployed, that's why I very much doubt his resignation was done lightly or in a hissy fit. There's a lot more to the story of that I'm sure but unless MON or one of his cronies speaks out we may never know.

[blandy]

Man City has changed the landscape like Chelsea did before them. Chelsea didn't affect Villa greatly, because at the time Villa was not as robust as the club is at the moment. Man CIty hasn't affected, say, Wolves in the same way it's affected Liverpool, or Villa.

So I don't think City have ruined football, they've just changed it. Once the furore over Milner, MO'N and so on has faded we might find that things settle back down.

It's not a quick process but the best, or most succcesful 4 clubs or so at any time does change. City have maybe replaced Liverpool in the Man U Arsenal Chelsea Sky 4 Cartel. They haven't replaced Villa.

It's a shame that it's less likely that a club will be able to do what Forest did in the late 70s, or Villa a bit later on, but it's not impossible that one of the top 4 at the moment will also not fall away and be replaced, and if Villa is in a healthy enough position, then we will have a chance.

It's not so likely this season, for sure, but then it wasn't really going to be, even before MO'N stomped off in a huff. He seemingly didn't want to stay and rebuild, but someone else will come in and rebuild, and maybe succeed, maybe not.

As a Villa fan, it's that process taking place at Villa that is of interest for me, I'm not bothered about 4th place, particularly, or Europa Cup. I just want to enjoy going to games. And that can most definitely still happen. If the price is kept reasonable, the kick off times are convenient, and the team is of a good standard that'll do me.

[Raver50032]

It will take an unbelievable season to make me renew next season. Not because we got beat 6-0, it just doesn't feel right anymore.

Footballs broken now and I don't think it can be fixed.

My decision to renew or not will depend on my own finances. The last time I threw in the towel was the last DOL season. I regret it in hindsight. But if money becomes more tight next year for me, I'm afraid going to the football will fall behind my love for airshows and my other hobbies.

Football is very broken. I lost a lot of interest as a result of the dismal World Cup - not just England. The whole tournament was utter shite, and the final was a throwback to thuggery and buggery of Roman times. Really, really disappointed with the final.

So, I was apathetic to begin with about the new season - seeing all those over-rated England players laughing and smiling as they put Stoke, Wigan, Albion, Blackpool to the sword (and Villa now!) by cricket scores. The very treachery of Team England beaming their smug Chelsea Grins.

And City - jealousy or not. It just isn't right. The Liverpool flag last night was spot on. You can buy the league (Blackburn, Chelsea anyone?) but you can't buy our heritage.

All that money when the floods have devastated Pakistan and China. It just ain't right. This is supposed to be 'just football' - just a game. But is it bollocks.

And then MON threw a leg out of bed and fooked himself away in a puff of smoke. Hung out to dry we've been.

All I can say it, do your best Villa. Do the best with what you've got.

This is a low.

[Richard]

It's not a quick process but the best, or most succcesful 4 clubs or so at any time does change. City have maybe replaced Liverpool in the Man U Arsenal Chelsea Sky 4 Cartel. They haven't replaced Villa.

I actually agree with that but not for the reasons you may necessarily think

You see for me I do not buy the argument that goes "well Man citeh have come along and they have changed our gameplan and meant we can no longer compete for top four", which it seems is how the current excuses pan out

For me man citeh are a convenient excuse a sideline if you will

Feck it could have been anybody there was always the prospect of someone coming in to spend big in the Abramovic way, that was never going to be just a one time event.

Plus I would argue that in reality we were never going to be able to break that top four monopoly, never. Our better players were always vulnerable to bigger bucks elsewhere and we could never compete at the top end of the market, this was evident from day 1 actually as if we could have done then better players would have been signed.

For me MON had to build a squad to improve us, the slow but steady approach was all well and good but there comes a time when that approach still needs big money spent and it was obvious we were never going to be able to do that

Perhaps promises were still being made (and ultimately broken), perhaps there is a final honesty over our actual ambitions who knows, but when you see supposedly bankrupt clubs and clubs who finished lower than us in the table still spending money and more than us, then as a professional person you could perhaps understand the frustrations.

Constructive dismissal is perhaps too big of a phrase to use but it is one I am having sympathy with

[BOF]

I wonder if MON would have had the same "criticism" had Randy sacked him instead of him walking

Obviously not.

[Ironsid]

I'm beginning to experience an unsettling feeling of deja vu. Getting to a position of promise where we feel we might kick on to the next level. Selling our best players year on year. Having dispiriting injections of common self where fiscal proprietypredominates. Being told that, if we're sensible the future is bright...eventually. I seem to remember that all of this flashed before my eyes during the reign of a previous chairman. Please Villa fans, reassure me that all is not doom and gloom and that our esteemed owner and his acolytes are really serious about pushing on and that we're not destined to perpetual mid- table mediocrity with perhaps a cup run thrown in to keep us interested.

I really want to be a believer but after watching Villa since the 1950s a cynical mood sometimes overcomes me.

[HeathVillain]

This piece is absolutely stating the bleedin' obvious!

This whole situation is driven by money and unfortunately it cannot be magicked out of thin air - you just have to do the best you can with the resources that are available.

Surely our current situation is far better than in the last few years with Doug in charge. Let's not forget Randy has invested heavily in the last 4 years and we still have a decent squad with some quality players. I for one think we are doing absolutely the best we can with what is at our disposal - if MON cannot hack it without having a bottomless pit of money to spend then so be it and we will find someone who can!

UTV!

[Cracker1234]

I really want to be a believer but after watching Villa since the 1950s a cynical mood sometimes overcomes me.

If you've been watching them since then, surely you know football has it's ups and downs.

You would also know what it's like to have loyal players playing for your team...I'm sure they would have been more loyal back then than they are now now.

We all want the best for AV, whether that be winning the league, winning cups or simply staying in the top league in some cases.

I honestly think if there is a way forward we have the right owner to try his best to do that.

We just need a manager to match that now.

[villan57]

I think you'll find he left because he was a gutless wimp who had wasted Millions and been told enough was enough .

Had we spent £120m on some quality and showed some real ambition and not seen 6th as some sort of new 1st the likes of Mellberg Barry and Milner would have stayed.

to say team spirit was good under MON is a joke , ask luke Young, Curtis , Sidwell, Coker, Shorey Harewood Guzan not to mention Sorryson and previous players the vindictive little man had frozen out without explaining to them why .Not a single players has said they are sad to see him go !

He's gone get over it and move on

[sherl]

It will take an unbelievable season to make me renew next season. Not because we got beat 6-0, it just doesn't feel right anymore.

Footballs broken now and I don't think it can be fixed.

This. Its been heading this way for a few years and add to it people like maschrano sulking and not playing because he didnt get his way sums it up. football is best enjoyed on espn classic and the 80's games when pitches were bare, it was cheap to go and the payers didnt earn much more than the fans (im 34, i cant comment on the 60's when they all had summer jobs so bear with me).

I'm the same as the guy who posted this, i really want to be excited but im full of apathy. not because villa are no longer dear to me or i'll be a nervous wreck every time they play as that will always be the case, but because its ruined.

i posted last year that we'd look back on 2009/10 season in 20 years as a measure of success and i think we'll not have a season like it again for a while. we'll never win the league and i doubt we'll be relegated, a cup final is what we need to aim for and if we spend all year trying to get into europe lets not rest players after one league game when we do get there!

UTV

[thetrees]

Constructive dismissal is perhaps too big of a phrase to use but it is one I am having sympathy with

Incredible.

All O'Neill needed to do was work under the financial constraints, albeit not as tight, as every other manager in the PL is having to do other than Mancini and, to a degree, Ancelotti.

For all those bemoaning the fact that there is no money, take a look around, there is no money in football at the moment relative to recent years. 'Big' clubs like Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal are tightening their belts in the same way as the Villa. Manure, the biggest club of them all, are tightening their belts. Money is tight, and managers are having to cut their cloth accordingly, but managers like Moyes, Hodgson, Redknapp and Wenger roll their sleeves up and get on with the job.

Given that the McGeady transfer out of Celtic took so long, it is clear that he was 'waiting' for the Villa. If O'Neill was prepared to pay £9.5m for him, then I am surprised that Mr Lerner didn't call in the guys with the strait jackets, and if a disagreement over that prospective transfer was why he left I would describe it more as constructive suicide than constructive dismissal.

For those running out on the club and not renewing season tickets, did you honestly expect us to challenge for the league ever again? My expectation of that disappeared years ago, but I buy my ST to watch the club I love have a go at whoever is visiting at a given time. I hate Sky, so-called big 4, chumps league and all the other shit hype that surrounds the game, but my hatred for them will never dim my love for the Villa, so I am happy to see this season and next and so on in all their fullness.

[TheWizzler]

i dont agree withpeople who say that villa will now never win or challenge for the title ever again because at the end of the day crazy things can happen in football especially in todays football. look how far we came in 4 years for example lets picture where villa could be in thirty years time.

you cant tell me that we will never challenge for the title in that 30 years because things can happen one day an exceedingly rich man may offer randy a price he cant turn down and we could do a many city.

one of the top 4 could eventually drop down the table and no longer be a premier league giant.

When fergie retires from man utd, manutd could then become a very poor team.

or matbe in 30 years villa could be playing in league 3 from going into liquidation losing all its players and having no decent manager/owner.

so you cant tell me the dream is dead when in this day and age one week can change the face of a club forever.

[briny_ear]

I think you'll find he left because he was a gutless wimp who had wasted Millions and been told enough was enough .

Hi Villan57.

You obviously have some good quality inside info here, and know the answers to questions that are puzzling a lot of us - just why did MON resign?

What you say seems a little at odds with the account General Krulak gave recently on another site:

Our previous manager left us 5 days before the kickoff of the season...5 days. No warning...he and Randy had talked on Saturday and Randy had flown back to the US secure in the knowledge that all was fine...only to learn on Monday that the man had resigned.

No mention here of MON being told "enough was enough" but I suppose the General has to be a bit discreet.

Can you tell us a bit more about how Martin was told "enough was enough"? Who told him, and what was it that was considered the tipping point?

Also, any idea how Randy Lerner managed to go back to the States not realising this ultimatum had been given?

[QldVilla]

Sorry BOF, but I have to disagree with this article.

As much as the reason O'Neill leaving may have some merit, it would also be remiss to mention that he was also in the position in the past two seasons in finish in the Top 4, but bottled it! You might be able to forgive him two seasons ago for failing to finish in the Top4, but when you get two chances, you can't forgive him, and I'll outline the reasons why:

1. The past two seasons our Away form has been as good if not better than the Top4, however our Home form was average, and the Manager made no attempt, (or if he did attempt, he failed to deliver) to change this in the past season.

2. He could have thrown all the resources into the League last season, but also focused on the Cups.

3. He was unable to show faith in players that he brought to the club to rotate them through the squad, he could of played these palyers in the domestic cups comps, but he didn't.

4. His inability to identify players in the european leagues of similar talent to replace those he's lost. No one can tell that there are not players of the same calibre of Milner and Barry or even better who would be available and happy to play for the Villa. His focus on british players has contributed to his conundrum.

O'Neill is a very good Manager, but also a smart one. I for one don't believe he could take us any further, unless there was a real shift in his methodology. There has always been a bit of hype that goes with O'Neill, I believe he walked before the hype was diminished, and some of his weaknesses exposed.