Cycling: General Chat

[veloman]

On 09/07/2019 at 06:36, veloman said:

 Alaphillipe , best chance for a French winner for quite a while AND is a drummer in his spare time !!!

Damn ! I wonder if that snow is going to ruin my prediction 

[maqroll]

Just saw the replay now. So frustrating. That would've been an amazing finish. Unbelievable tour, full of surprises, so what can you say. Snow in southern France in late July. hard luck for Pinot. Alaphillipe just hanging on. But I think Thomas or Bernal will be salivating over these next stages.

Edited July 26, 2019 by maqroll

[LondonLax]

It’s all over surely. Bernal won’t be caught on a shortened stage unless he has a serious mishap. 

[HanoiVillan]

So disappointed that Sky won yet again, but at least this time they did it with two more likable riders and actually raced rather than grinding everyone down. 

Please let there be a winner from another team next year though, please. 

[Delphouneso]

Bit of a disappointing ending to what was a fantastic Tour really. Gutted for Pinot, that wasn't nice to watch. Movistar again the most frustrating team in the universe. Fair play to Ineos they won it in a way they're not accustomed to doing so, and Bernal winning is quite remarkable, but I can't help but feel the history books will remember this as just another Sky 1-2. Somewhat fitting the only man to break the Sky domination in recent years was the man who won the penultimate stage.

 

On 28/07/2019 at 00:42, HanoiVillan said:

So disappointed that Sky won yet again, but at least this time they did it with two more likable riders and actually raced rather than grinding everyone down. 

Please let there be a winner from another team next year though, please. 

Unlikely with Carapaz supposedly moving to Ineos as well, and Bernal is only going to get better. The team dynamic going forward could be interesting, if Froome gets back to full fitness he's not gonna let that 5th jersey go easy, and he'll now have two previous TdF winners and a Giro winner to compete with, but they've handled similar situations before.

I'm hopeful this year has shown teams that you can take the race to them, or the success (in entertainment terms) of this year's Tour will influence Brailsford's philosophy going forward, but I'm not optimistic.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Delphouneso

[sne]

Well that's just plain bad luck, what are the odds.

Apparently the police raided them 3 days later  

[CardiffGreens]

A bit of a bump I grant you, but given some of the more recent (coughs) discussions around the emergence of eSports as a direct analog to real life sport in some of the Other Football threads, I thought it might be worth mentioning.

Looks like ASO are in discussions to get a virtual Tour de France going this year (during the usual race period, since the acutal one has been pushed back to August) through the VR training/riding game Zwift - 6x 1hour races spread over 3 weekends the race would normally be held on - https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/virtual-mens-and-womens-tour-de-france-on-zwift-set-for-july/ 

Quote

We'll have to wait until late August for the real thing, but there will be a virtual Tour de France in July, as race organiser ASO has agreed a deal with the online cycling platform Zwift.

Details for the event have yet to be finalised but proposals from ASO, seen by Cyclingnews, set out plans for a men's and women's race, each made up of six stages.

The racing would take place across three weekends during the Tour's original dates, starting on Saturday, July 4, and finishing on Sunday, July 19. 

Before the coronavirus pandemic interrupted the season, the Tour was due to start in Nice on June 27 and finish in Paris on July 19. It has been rescheduled to run from August 29-September 20. 

For the virtual Tour de France, Zwift is set to build new race routes, including one in Nice for the opening stage and another in Paris to mimic the traditional finale of the Tour de France on the cobbled circuit of the Champs Elysées. 

The stages, which will include a marquee mountain stage, would all be around one hour in length, and the field composed of teams of four riders. 

Cyclingnews understands that 15 teams have so far signed up for the event, while 10 television channels covering 130 countries are have signed up to broadcast the event. 

ASO's entry into the virtual cycling world follows similar e-races over the past couple of months from fellow race organisers, such as RCS Sport and Flanders Classics. 

The Digital Swiss 5 was held on the Rouvy platform last month, while a virtual Tour of Flanders was raced on Bkool in April. 

Zwift recently organised the Zwift Tour for All series, and has also hosted internal races and riders for a number of teams, including Ineos, Jumbo-Visma, and Mitchelton-Scott. 

The Zwift platform allows for drafting, meaning riders enjoy an easing of the resistance of their home trainer if they maneuver themselves behind another rider. 

Adding to the tactical and gamification element are power-ups – such as a reduction in virtual drag – that can be gained and then used at strategic moments. 

 

This is interesting to me in a number of reasons;

Firstly cycling being a much easier sport to replicate into esports than say football (sticking a bike onto a turbotrainer = far closer to a cycling race than say playing FIFA20 on a PS4 is to playing football in real life), so it feel more "acceptable" in terms of comparing what you see in the virtual world to a real life effort - as well as "accurately reflecting" real life in game (ish, see later);

Secondly, this version of eSports is essentially a competition between elite athletes (rather than say a bunch twitch streamers, nothing against them), where their usual training and abilities will have a direct impact on their performance in game - but again this'll help build the idea this is some form of comparable racing to what we'd have had otherwise IRL

Thirdly, the shorter format (an hours racing per day) will allow for more attention to be given to Women's cycling, which in some cases you could argue is more exciting due to the shorter format of their races (as opposed to a lot of mens stage cycling races, which basically consist of letting a breakaway form and get away, slowly reel them in over a period of 5 hours and do a mass sprint finish at the end; back to the hotel and repeat until they get to the mountains).

Fourthly (and this is more from a selfish personal reason); it'll require Zwift developers to up their game a bit; it's a cracking platform - but their race/spectator options stink (as witnessed with the first Team Ineos race up the Alpe du Zwift last month), basics things from a spectator PoV were missing (no live finishing standings for instance - once someone went through the finishing line they disappeared off screen which made for some difficult commentary work), there's no way to find a rider to watch on your own game (something you can do if a friend hops on for a ride), so it'll be interesting to see what they bring in here for this race and how that affects us mere mortals that use the game.

Fifthly; what sort of dynamics the "missing" features that zwift can't/doesn't capture will have on the races; the Ineos Alpe race was won by a Time Triallist; there could be a number of factors for this - it's only an hour effort, also whilst the trainers they have will increase the incline on your bike, you haven't actually got to worry that lugging "excess" weight up against gravity will add to your fatigue as you would have in the real world.  There's also no in game wind, so no echelon forming on flat stages; there is also no sort of steering or braking, so descents are a bit of nothingness in game.

Sixthly, the whole "how is compliance with anti cheating/weight doping" going to be controlled - you'd like to think pro teams wouldn't be into ANT+ data manipulation, (i.e. cheating the game into thinking you're putting more power than than you actually are) but given there are plenty of ways to cheat the game if you wish; it's something that'll have to be thought about at the least.

[andyjsg]

Would be nigh on impossible to police unless you are weighing people in some way. I can put down power but even when I’m in my best shape I’m 78kgs (more like 90 at the moment), just mark it as 60 and I’m suddenly semi-pro...

[CardiffGreens]

Well, there's a rumoured big announcement for early next week; but in practical terms Zwift dumped a huge update out last night that included 2 new worlds (though currently unavailable to the likes of you and me) which contain routes around Paris and the rest of France (rumours - or rather me looking at the new route badges - suggest Mont Ventoux (or at least the first half of it) are included along with some cobbled action on the Champs Elysées.

Cycling News have written some words about the make up of the route and competition - https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zwift-build-new-mont-ventoux-and-champs-elysees-worlds-for-virtual-tour-de-france/

Route:

Spoiler

More details have now emerged, with four of the six stages to take place on a new Zwift world named France. Stage 5, the penultimate stage, on July 18, will be the queen stage with a finish at Chalet Reynard, the point half-way up Mont Ventoux where the road emerges from the trees and opens out onto the exposed mountainside.

The stage is 22.9km long, with the climb to Chalet Reynard from Bedoin measuring 15km with an average gradient of 7.5 per cent.

The following day, the virtual Tour de France will emulate the finale of the real event with a stage on Paris’ Champs Elyséees. 

The riders will cover six laps of the 6.6km circuit that rises gently up to the Arc du Triomphe and then back down to the Tuileries Gardens, with smart trainers now able to mimic the cobbled surface.

The first two take place in Zwift’s flagship Watopia world, the first on the reverse of the ‘Hilly’ route, with four laps of the 9.1km circuit, and the second on the ‘Mountain’ route, a 29.5km course that features 682m of elevation gain.

The second weekend of action (July 11-12) sees the race leave Watopia for the new France world. 

Stage 3 takes place on a route named R.G.V, with two laps of the largely flat 24km circuit, while stage 4 is on a route named ‘Casse Patte’, a French term meaning 'leg-breaking', or an undulating parcours that gives little respite. The riders will complete two laps of the 22.9km circuit for a total elevation of 310m.

The race concludes on the weekend of July 18-19 – the original final weekend – with the Ventoux stage and the Paris finale.

Competition - appears there are no "individual" classifications as such:

Spoiler

The virtual Tour de France will feature a yellow jersey but there will not be an individual general classification. Instead, like the recent Zwift Tour For All, it is based on a team competition where riders win points across stage finishes, KOMs, and sprints.

The virtual yellow jersey will be worn by the rider the leading team nominates as captain for the subsequent stage, with teams allowed to choose different riders for each stage. Points for the yellow jersey standings – or GC – are awarded for the first 25 riders on each stage, with 50 for the winer.

As in the Tour de France, there’s a polka-dot jersey for the mountains classification, a green jersey for the points classification, a white jersey for best young rider and a most combative award. 

For the polka-dot and green jerseys, points are issued atop the climbs and at intermediate and finish-line sprints, respectively, with the team that has the highest combined total able to nominate a rider to wear the jersey. Only one rider per team can score points for the young rider classification, with teams obliged to field at least one rider under the age of 25. There is no jersey for most combative but three riders on each stage score points.

The points for all the classifications are then combined to decide the teams classification.

 

In sort of unrelated news, it was interesting to see the slightly lighter-hearted coverage that Sky Sports mix did for "The Race" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB95wHFBu78) a couple of weeks back; at least compared to the slightly more serious stuff in the two Ineos races that have been streamed.  As an aside I did the same route a couple of days later just to see where I stacked up - turns out I'm faster than Olly Murs, which is perhaps not the benchmark I was expecting to compare myself to at the start of lockdown.

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by CardiffGreens

[darrenm]

Like seemingly every other person in the country I decided to get a gravel bike. I'm a bit fed up of cars on the road and the condition of the country lanes I'm being relegated to are just getting worse and worse.

Also, I've always been a bit frustrated with the road bike that I can't just turn off onto a trail or single track.

So I got this one today. It's so much fun. Feels like a road bike but you can point it at anything and it'll ride over it.

[Dodgyknees]

Bought myself an electric bike today and it was good to ride it home. I have been doing less exercise the last few years as I’ve had problems with my muscles/nerves which has occasionally lead to me falling over for no reason. Luckily we are now looking at options and solutions (albeit not something that will stop it completely) so for me, an electric bike made sense as over exertion on my body makes me worse.

Never spoken about that publicly so I’m a bit

 

[blandy]

4 hours ago, avfcDJ said:

Never spoken about that publicly so I’m a bit

It’s ok.  Take no notice of what @tonyh29 says, being a cyclist is normal, commendable even. Electric bikes are the future, you’re a kind of pioneer. As for health issues, no shame and fitness will surely help recovery, so all good.

[darrenm]

Ebikes rock. Until someone flies past me up a hill on one.

Absolutely agree with Blandy. They are the future.

[blandy]

Just now, darrenm said:

Ebikes rock. Until someone flies past me up a hill on one.

Absolutely agree with Blandy. They are the future.

Yeah, they kind of piss me off, but also inspire an “I want one”. Sometimes I’d be cycling home into the teeth of a gale and someone would sail past me on an e bike, with no effort at all. I’d try and console myself it was doing me more good. But with a dodgy knee and general age related decrepitude I’ll no doubt need one before long.  And they’re a really neat invention.

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

It’s ok.  Take no notice of what @tonyh29 says, being a cyclist is normal, commendable even. Electric bikes are the future, you’re a kind of pioneer. As for health issues, no shame and fitness will surely help recovery, so all good.

Long as you aren’t wearing Lycra and causing a 3 mile tailback on the A320 during rush hour as you and your mate pretend you are in the peloton then , yeah go for it bit of exercise  and enjoying some fresh air perfectly normal 

But cycling  next to the cycle path built specifically for you , acting  like a militants as you chase someone for 16 mile to confront them for not giving you 60 foot clearance ( and sharing the whole event via social media to bask in the glow of moral righteousness)  or riding on a pavement shouting  get out the way / ringing a bell when you aren’t actually permitted to ride on the pavement , that isn’t normal and why they make the list , sandwiched between The French and students.

 

but joking aside good luck with it all avfcDJ

[tonyh29]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yeah, they kind of piss me off, but also inspire an “I want one”. Sometimes I’d be cycling home into the teeth of a gale and someone would sail past me on an e bike, with no effort at all. I’d try and console myself it was doing me more good. But with a dodgy knee and general age related decrepitude I’ll no doubt need one before long.  And they’re a really neat invention.

 an e-bike feels like cheating to me ,  a steep Hill I want to feel the burn and test myself as a climb it ... if an e bike Is for commuting , well we already have things called cars that can transport you effortlessly from A to B , and a flat cap and driving gloves makes you look far cooler than Lycra 

[Xann]

24 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yeah, they kind of piss me off, but also inspire an “I want one”. Sometimes I’d be cycling home into the teeth of a gale and someone would sail past me on an e bike, with no effort at all. 

Matching speed with traffic thinking you're being rapid, then a bloke in long trousers and collared shirt sails past everyone.

Real eye opener, innit.

[il_serpente]

12 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

 an e-bike feels like cheating to me ,  a steep Hill I want to feel the burn and test myself as a climb it ... if an e bike Is for commuting , well we already have things called cars that can transport you effortlessly from A to B , and a flat cap and driving gloves makes you look far cooler than Lycra 

I can't help but feel a little morally superior when an e-bike passes me on my commute to work because I'm doing it naturally with no help, but they're getting people on the bike and out of cars who wouldn't otherwise.  I can't argue with that. 

[lammy123]

I've no problem with ebike for commuting and around town, an excellent idea if it gets people out of cars and doing some exercise.

But the amount of words removed tanking round the cannock chase mtb trails on them is unbelievable.  

[LondonLax]

5 hours ago, lammy123 said:

I've no problem with ebike for commuting and around town, an excellent idea if it gets people out of cars and doing some exercise.

But the amount of words removed tanking round the cannock chase mtb trails on them is unbelievable.  

Probably still better than if they were on motorcross bikes.