Ciaran Clark

[Boumasbabies]

56 minutes ago, villa89 said:

You obviously didn't see Irelands game today so. Duffy was awful.

 I disagree, apart from challenging Giroud for Griezmanns second goal, I think he had a good game - throwing himself into tackles and dominating Giroud for nearly all the game

[villa89]

9 hours ago, Boumasbabies said:

 I disagree, apart from challenging Giroud for Griezmanns second goal, I think he had a good game - throwing himself into tackles and dominating Giroud for nearly all the game

So apart from being 100% at fault for the second goal, marking nobody for the first goal and getting himself sent off he had a good game? And you think we should sign him based on that performance? With scouting like that Paddy Reilly will surely be giving you a call.  

[Zatman]

I dont think we will be competing against players like Griezzmann, Payet and Giroud in Championship. Duffy is very good defender at that level and a tough competitor

[NeilS]

9 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I dont think we will be competing against players like Griezzmann, Payet and Giroud in Championship. Duffy is very good defender at that level and a tough competitor

Maybe I am being harsh, but I am not sure he is any better than Clark going on yesterdays performance, that second goal was abysmal defending at any level. The same logic about standard of opposition could also be applied to Clark, so I don't think we should be going out buying someone who is no better than what we already have.

That said, I think Clark's time here should be up. For the last few seasons we have reached the summer break, and had similar discussions every time about Clark. He can play well 90 odd percent of the time, but will always have a clanger or two in him in every match which ultimately ends up gifting the opposition a goal or two. I always gave him the benefit of the doubt in that past, excusing him for being young and learning the game, and that the next season is a big season for Ciaran and that he needs to iron out those blunders from his game. Unfortunately he has not done it, we need better than that, so he should be moved on if possible.

[bobzy]

He's absolutely no better than Clark.

But Clark has played in a relegated Aston Villa side so is pretty much automatically one of the worst defenders in the World ever.

[kurtsimonw]

15 hours ago, Boumasbabies said:

 I disagree, apart from challenging Giroud for Griezmanns second goal, I think he had a good game - throwing himself into tackles and dominating Giroud for nearly all the game

"Apart from costing us a goal, he played well". That can be applied to a lot of Clark's games IMO. He doesn't make all that many mistakes, but when he does they seem to cost us.

[ROTTERDAM1982]

i think we need a bit of pace alongside Elphick tbh, a good quick defender, neither Clark or Duffy are quick enough.

 

For me Baker is a far better defender than Clark.

[omariqy]

I'd rather Richards then Clark/Baker.

[HanoiVillan]

I'd far rather Baker than Richards and it isn't even close. I'd rather watch Baker hoof it clear than watch Richards lose the ball 25 yards from goal because he thinks he's Paolo Maldini. 

Plus at least Baker doesn't seem like a word removed.

[Zatman]

Richards might have more talent than Baker(though im not sure after last season) but his attitude is nothing comparable,

Baker and Clark for all their faults are still better for the squad than Richards and Lescott

[Guest av1]

20 hours ago, omariqy said:

I'd rather Richards then Clark/Baker.

I'd rather have Gonorrhea than watch Richards in a Villa Shirt again. 

I'm not a fan a Clark or Baker but I'd take either over Richards. 

[BOF]

Defenders are judged on their mistakes.  Not on what they do right.  If you make 20 clearances in a match but directly cost the team 2 goals then you are not a good defender.  Good defenders - great defenders - are reliable and dependable.  They certainly do not regularly make mistakes that directly lead to goals.  Unfortunately, for all the good Clark does, he has a clanger in him.  Sometimes 2.  He has always had a clanger in him and the hope used to be that he would iron that part of his game out as he got older.  He hasn't done that.  He seems to have added own goals to his repertoire.  Yes he can look good.  Yes he can do good things.  But at the end of the day he will let you down and he will cost you the game.  His mistakes always seem to be critical.  He doesn't do 'small' mistakes.

[rodders0223]

21 hours ago, bobzy said:

He's absolutely no better than Clark.

But Clark has played in a relegated Aston Villa side so is pretty much automatically one of the worst defenders in the World ever.

Nobody has said that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Though I think he is up there tbfh

[TrentVilla]

On 6/28/2016 at 12:28, BOF said:

Defenders are judged on their mistakes.  Not on what they do right.  If you make 20 clearances in a match but directly cost the team 2 goals then you are not a good defender.  Good defenders - great defenders - are reliable and dependable.  They certainly do not regularly make mistakes that directly lead to goals.  Unfortunately, for all the good Clark does, he has a clanger in him.  Sometimes 2.  He has always had a clanger in him and the hope used to be that he would iron that part of his game out as he got older.  He hasn't done that.  He seems to have added own goals to his repertoire.  Yes he can look good.  Yes he can do good things.  But at the end of the day he will let you down and he will cost you the game.  His mistakes always seem to be critical.  He doesn't do 'small' mistakes.

Agreed with you right until the last, actually he makes lots of small mistakes particularly in terms of positioning. They just aren't particularly noticeable or as noticeable as the big rickets he makes but they are usually the route cause of them.

[sparrow1988]

2 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

Agreed with you right until the last, actually he makes lots of small mistakes particularly in terms of positioning. They just aren't particularly noticeable or as noticeable as the big rickets he makes but they are usually the route cause of them.

So are you suggesting with some minor positional adjustments (bearing in mind coaching has been piss poor (in my opinion) recently - theoretically now improved) the rickets could be eliminated and he could become a decent defender?

Or is he just a lost cause?

[GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS]

Not sure he is a lost cause, but he needs rebuilding that's for sure.  He's just come off the back of a dreadful season and an equally dreadful euros (from his personal point of view).  His confidence will be shot to pieces and he needs a lot of ills coached out of him.

Personally I think Villa has been very bad for Ciaran.  For years now he's had to deal with being in and out of a very unsettled back line and too often he's been in amongst a defensive unit made up of kids or useless journeymen (the odd exception such as Vlaar aside) and it's had a hugely detrimental effect.  

You only have to look at the likes of Baker and Bennett for similar examples of how the Villa experience can effect a young defender... and look at them now.  A bit of time away and they've both proved that they're actually good players - both had strong championship campaigns last season.

I think a bit of time out of the starting XI to take him out of the firing line, surrounded by better players and coaches and he can still come good - especially in the championship which may well be the right level for him right now.

[TrentVilla]

33 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

So are you suggesting with some minor positional adjustments (bearing in mind coaching has been piss poor (in my opinion) recently - theoretically now improved) the rickets could be eliminated and he could become a decent defender?

Or is he just a lost cause?

I think he is a lost cause personally but others will think differently I guess.

[rodders0223]

32 minutes ago, GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS said:

Not sure he is a lost cause, but he needs rebuilding that's for sure.  He's just come off the back of a dreadful season and an equally dreadful euros (from his personal point of view).  His confidence will be shot to pieces and he needs a lot of ills coached out of him.

Personally I think Villa has been very bad for Ciaran.  For years now he's had to deal with being in and out of a very unsettled back line and too often he's been in amongst a defensive unit made up of kids or useless journeymen (the odd exception such as Vlaar aside) and it's had a hugely detrimental effect.  

You only have to look at the likes of Baker and Bennett for similar examples of how the Villa experience can effect a young defender... and look at them now.  A bit of time away and they've both proved that they're actually good players - both had strong championship campaigns last season.

I think a bit of time out of the starting XI to take him out of the firing line, surrounded by better players and coaches and he can still come good - especially in the championship which may well be the right level for him right now.

No they didn't.

 

[omariqy]

Lost cause.

[Czechlad]

I still think he should had stayed at defensive mid. He actually looked good there. I remember him doing very well against Spurs in that spot.