Scientific Experiment V2#12-MON(thly) Approval Ratings

[bickster]

Right ok, how do you come to the conclusion that we will decline? The tangible evidence to date doesn't indicate this.

Also, if MON isn't the one to take us forward, do you think there are people out there who can, given the current conditions in the league and at VP? Personally I can't see it. Right now there's a glass ceiling and unless we have a new owner again (a much richer new owner) I can't see us getting much higher than we're already achieving on a regular basis.

[rjshare]

its funny how whenever say, a small heath fan laughs at villa fans and says we all live in the past we all jump over him (metaphorically!) but its 90% of what this post is talking about!

mon has done ok - agreed, now lets stop talking about it as it is irrelevant.

what does the future hold? can mon take this club further? does he appear to have a strategy of evolving the team in the way say wenger does? is he in control of the destiny of his current squad?

for me the answers are decline, no, no and no.

How odd, you appear to be saying that football managers should be judged on the future alone? Can you explain to me how that works?

And if we're in decline, you come we keep getting more points season on season with (imo of course) increased competition in our section of the league. If that is indeed decline then I think we should decline some more

so where does the continuing arguments about dol fit into that then? why does the fact mon took a team that had finished 6th and then 16th prior to his arrival and got them to finish er... 6th again mean that four years later he is the man to take us higher up the league.

i didnt say mon should be judged on the future because that is well - you're just posting for effect really arent you? i said lets agree that he has done up to now a decent job - because he has, but what he achieved in the last four seasons wont give us any more points this coming season. if he doesnt sign a single new player but reduces the squad by a few bodies probably will.

i also didnt say we are IN decline - i said in my opinion the answer to the question "what does the future hold?" is decline - not exactly the same is it?

i dont believe he has any squad building strategy, i dont believe he has this summers transfer activity under control and therefore i dont think he is in a position to take us any further.

your reply wasnt actually a reply to what i wrote...

So is it in MON we trust or do not trust? If it is not, then can you change your signature and advise when your mind changed as I don't see many failures in MON when it comes to someone being a custodian of our football club - which is what you are basing your argument on. Tactically, yes I see flaws but not in our future potential.

does my signature make any **** difference to the fact that we are a fortnight away from the new season and have a smaller squad than last season?

my mind was changed when we threw away the chance of finishing fourth two seasons on the trot purely due to bad management.

[Risso]

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. My point is, that every manager buys rubbish from time to time and MON is no different and is certainly no worse than the top managers in the success of purchases department. End of debate.

Saying "end of debate" doesn't actually make it so I'm aftraid. All managers make mistakes in the transfer market, and in my opinion O'Neill makes a lot more than most. That's the reason we can't buy any more players until he gets some of his expensive mistakes off the books. We're the only club in the Premier League not to have bought any one yet this summer, and unless somebody wants the likes of Sidwell or Heskey for £50K a week, we might not get to buy anybody.

What other manager has been told he has to ship out a load of his own expensive mistakes before he can buy anybody else?

[AstonMartin82]

Right ok, how do you come to the conclusion that we will decline? The tangible evidence to date doesn't indicate this.

Also, if MON isn't the one to take us forward, do you think there are people out there who can, given the current conditions in the league and at VP? Personally I can't see it. Right now there's a glass ceiling and unless we have a new owner again (a much richer new owner) I can't see us getting much higher than we're already achieving on a regular basis.

Amen brother.

Personally I think I have cracked it. I believe that there must be a correlation between MON stay or go poll and Villa fans relationship history. Those that have loads of partners and don't settle down are probably more likely to want MON out on the basis that there is nothing wrong, but they are bored and feel like something a bit fresh, new and exciting. Those who are in long term relationships are probably more likely to want to keep MON understanding that being fresh and new isn't the key to happiness, it is longevity unless something fundamentally goes wrong - which hasn't in MONs era yet.

[AstonMartin82]

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. My point is, that every manager buys rubbish from time to time and MON is no different and is certainly no worse than the top managers in the success of purchases department. End of debate.

Saying "end of debate" doesn't actually make it so I'm aftraid. All managers make mistakes in the transfer market, and in my opinion O'Neill makes a lot more than most. That's the reason we can't buy any more players until he gets some of his expensive mistakes off the books. We're the only club in the Premier League not to have bought any one yet this summer, and unless somebody wants the likes of Sidwell or Heskey for £50K a week, we might not get to buy anybody.

What other manager has been told he has to ship out a load of his own expensive mistakes before he can buy anybody else?

Alex Ferguson.

[rjshare]

Right ok, how do you come to the conclusion that we will decline? The tangible evidence to date doesn't indicate this.

Also, if MON isn't the one to take us forward, do you think there are people out there who can, given the current conditions in the league and at VP? Personally I can't see it. Right now there's a glass ceiling and unless we have a new owner again (a much richer new owner) I can't see us getting much higher than we're already achieving on a regular basis.

so you are of the opinion that the league is just a run down of balance sheets are you?

if team a spends more than team b they will finish above them? thats it, no chance of upsetting the odds a bit?

we dont have some wimbledon crazy gang squad - we have a squad of mostly very good players, who on their day are capable of beating anyone - last season proved it. we dont have a manager who is capable of outwitting a visiting 9-1-1 formation as demonstrated by the likes of wolves and stoke etc. those are the games that cost us and unless mon suddenly swallows a tactical encyclopedia in the next fortnight i cants see it changing. i think that the league is getting harder at the top, so there is every chance in my opinion that we will struggle to finish 6th this year - hence my prognostic of decline for the future.

[bickster]

We're the only club in the Premier League not to have bought any one yet this summer

Are we? I think you may have been misinformed on that one, there are three clubs who have bought no-one. (Us Blackburn and Blackpool) Spurs have bought one player who won't be featuring this season much if at all and one hell of a lot of dross have moved clubs very few of which we would ever have been interested in. Titus Bramble? and he's one of the better players!

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Arsenal

French defender Laurent Koscielny from Lorient for a fee of €12m; Moroccan forward Marouane Chamakh on a free transfer from Bordeaux.

Birmingham

Spanish midfielder Enric Valles from NAC Breda; Serbian forward Nikola Zigic from Valencia for a fee of €7m; Goalkeeper Ben Foster from Manchester United for a fee of €7m.

Bolton

Spanish defender Marcos Alonso from Real Madrid for a fee of €2.4m; Forward Robbie Blake from Burnley; Bulgarian midfielder Martin Petrov from Manchester City.

Chelsea

Israeli midfielder Yossi Benayoun from Liverpool for a fee of €6m.

Everton

French forward Magaye Gueye from Strasbourg for a fee of €1m; Slovakian goalkeeper Jan Mucha from Legia Warsaw; Forward Jermaine Beckford on a free transfer from Leeds; Portuguese forward Joao Silva from Aves for a fee of €0.6m.

Fulham

Swiss defender Philippe Senderos on a free transfer from Arsenal London.

Liverpool

Scottish defender Danny Wilson from Glasgow Rangers for a fee of €2.3m; Midfielder Joe Cole on a free transfer from Chelsea; Serbian midfielder Milan Jovanovic on a free transfer from Standard; Midfielder Jonjo Shelvey from Charlton Athletic for a fee of €2m.

Manchester City

Serbian defender Aleksandar Kolarov from Lazio for a fee of €19m; Ivory Coast midfielder Yaya Toure from Barcelona; Spanish midfielder David Silva from Valencia for a fee of €32m; Midfielder Alex Henshall from Swindon Town; German defender Jerome Boateng from Hamburger.

Manchester United

Mexican forward Javier Hernandez from Guadalajara Chivas; Defender Chris Smalling from Fulham.

Newcastle

Defender Sol Campbell on a free transfer from Arsenal London; Midfielder Dan Gosling on a free transfer from Everton; Defender James Perch from Nottingham Forest.

Stoke City

Goalkeeper Carlo Nash from Everton; Belgian midfielder Florent Cuvelier from Portsmouth.

Sunderland

Argentinean defender Marcos Angeleri from Estudiantes for a fee of €1.8m; Defender Titus Bramble from Wigan Athletic; Egyptian midfielder Ahmed Al-Muhammadi from ENPPI; Belgian goalkeeper Simon Mignolet from Sint-Truiden; Paraguayan midfielder Cristian Riveros from Cruz Azul.

Tottenham

Brazilian midfielder Sandro from Internacional.

West Brom

American goalkeeper Boaz Myhill from Hull City for a fee of €1.8m; Spanish defender Pablo Ibanez on a free transfer from Atletico Madrid; Romanian defender Gabriel Tamas from Auxerre; Irish midfielder Steven Reid on a free transfer from Blackburn Rovers.

West Ham

French forward Frederic Piquionne from Lyon for a fee of €1.2m; Mexican forward Pablo Barrera from Pumas for a fee of €4.7m; German midfielder Thomas Hitzlsperger from Lazio for a fee of €3m.

Wigan

Dutch defender Ronnie Stam from Twente for a fee of €4m; Scottish midfielder James McArthur from Hamilton for a fee of €0.5m; Oman goalkeeper Ali Al-Habsi on loan from Bolton Wanderers; Argentinean forward Mauro Boselli from Estudiantes for a fee of €6m; Paraguayan defender Antolin Alcaraz on a free transfer from Brugge.

Wolves

Irish midfielder Stephen Hunt from Hull City; French defender Steven Mouyokolo from Hull City; Scottish forward Steven Fletcher from Burnley for a fee of €7.8m; Belgian defender Jelle van Damme from Anderlecht.

Most of those players are either out of our league or simply not good enough to be in our team

[markavfc40]

we are a fortnight away from the new season and have a smaller squad than last season?

Factually correct but of the three players that have left the club one never played a first team game ( Marshall ) one hasn't kicked a ball for us in two years ( Bouma ) and Harewood never started a Prem game for us and didn't play at all last season.

It is also 30 days till the window closes with plenty of comings and goings to take place. That will be the time to judge the strength of the squad.

[avfc89]

Expecting a top 4 finish and then being dissapointed we haven't finished there is unrealistic.

I expect us to compete for fourth place, and I'm disappointed if we don't take full advantage of our resources available.

[AstonMartin82]

Right ok, how do you come to the conclusion that we will decline? The tangible evidence to date doesn't indicate this.

Also, if MON isn't the one to take us forward, do you think there are people out there who can, given the current conditions in the league and at VP? Personally I can't see it. Right now there's a glass ceiling and unless we have a new owner again (a much richer new owner) I can't see us getting much higher than we're already achieving on a regular basis.

so you are of the opinion that the league is just a run down of balance sheets are you?

if team a spends more than team b they will finish above them? thats it, no chance of upsetting the odds a bit?

we dont have some wimbledon crazy gang squad - we have a squad of mostly very good players, who on their day are capable of beating anyone - last season proved it. we dont have a manager who is capable of outwitting a visiting 9-1-1 formation as demonstrated by the likes of wolves and stoke etc. those are the games that cost us and unless mon suddenly swallows a tactical encyclopedia in the next fortnight i cants see it changing. i think that the league is getting harder at the top, so there is every chance in my opinion that we will struggle to finish 6th this year - hence my prognostic of decline for the future.

I actually agree with most of what you write here. But surely that is a frustration with the game as opposed to MON? We can't expect to beat every team below... there will be occassions when we mess up but we can highlight some of the games where we did win with the opposition parking the bus. Granted, we could of won more than we did, but MON will be wiser from the experience and we will be able to cope with it better going forward. I believe we are better of sticking with MON until FIFA and the FA get the rules of the game right so we can compete again on a level playing field. There is no better manager around which would accept the Villa job other than MON.

[AstonMartin82]

Yo, Bicks... your quotes are wrong! You have attributed me with incorrect quotes, which obviously can never be the case!

Sorted! (and Jamican's post below) :nod: - Bicks

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

We're the only club in the Premier League not to have bought any one yet this summer

Are we? I think you may have been misinformed on that one, there are three clubs who have bought no-one. (Us Blackburn and Blackpool) Spurs have bought one player who won't be featuring this season much if at all and one hell of a lot of dross have moved clubs very few of which we would ever have been interested in. Titus Bramble? and he's one of the better players!

This site"]

Arsenal

French defender Laurent Koscielny from Lorient for a fee of €12m; Moroccan forward Marouane Chamakh on a free transfer from Bordeaux.

Birmingham

Spanish midfielder Enric Valles from NAC Breda; Serbian forward Nikola Zigic from Valencia for a fee of €7m; Goalkeeper Ben Foster from Manchester United for a fee of €7m.

Bolton

Spanish defender Marcos Alonso from Real Madrid for a fee of €2.4m; Forward Robbie Blake from Burnley; Bulgarian midfielder Martin Petrov from Manchester City.

Chelsea

Israeli midfielder Yossi Benayoun from Liverpool for a fee of €6m.

Everton

French forward Magaye Gueye from Strasbourg for a fee of €1m; Slovakian goalkeeper Jan Mucha from Legia Warsaw; Forward Jermaine Beckford on a free transfer from Leeds; Portuguese forward Joao Silva from Aves for a fee of €0.6m.

Fulham

Swiss defender Philippe Senderos on a free transfer from Arsenal London.

Liverpool

Scottish defender Danny Wilson from Glasgow Rangers for a fee of €2.3m; Midfielder Joe Cole on a free transfer from Chelsea; Serbian midfielder Milan Jovanovic on a free transfer from Standard; Midfielder Jonjo Shelvey from Charlton Athletic for a fee of €2m.

Manchester City

Serbian defender Aleksandar Kolarov from Lazio for a fee of €19m; Ivory Coast midfielder Yaya Toure from Barcelona; Spanish midfielder David Silva from Valencia for a fee of €32m; Midfielder Alex Henshall from Swindon Town; German defender Jerome Boateng from Hamburger.

Manchester United

Mexican forward Javier Hernandez from Guadalajara Chivas; Defender Chris Smalling from Fulham.

Newcastle

Defender Sol Campbell on a free transfer from Arsenal London; Midfielder Dan Gosling on a free transfer from Everton; Defender James Perch from Nottingham Forest.

Stoke City

Goalkeeper Carlo Nash from Everton; Belgian midfielder Florent Cuvelier from Portsmouth.

Sunderland

Argentinean defender Marcos Angeleri from Estudiantes for a fee of €1.8m; Defender Titus Bramble from Wigan Athletic; Egyptian midfielder Ahmed Al-Muhammadi from ENPPI; Belgian goalkeeper Simon Mignolet from Sint-Truiden; Paraguayan midfielder Cristian Riveros from Cruz Azul.

Tottenham

Brazilian midfielder Sandro from Internacional.

West Brom

American goalkeeper Boaz Myhill from Hull City for a fee of €1.8m; Spanish defender Pablo Ibanez on a free transfer from Atletico Madrid; Romanian defender Gabriel Tamas from Auxerre; Irish midfielder Steven Reid on a free transfer from Blackburn Rovers.

West Ham

French forward Frederic Piquionne from Lyon for a fee of €1.2m; Mexican forward Pablo Barrera from Pumas for a fee of €4.7m; German midfielder Thomas Hitzlsperger from Lazio for a fee of €3m.

Wigan

Dutch defender Ronnie Stam from Twente for a fee of €4m; Scottish midfielder James McArthur from Hamilton for a fee of €0.5m; Oman goalkeeper Ali Al-Habsi on loan from Bolton Wanderers; Argentinean forward Mauro Boselli from Estudiantes for a fee of €6m; Paraguayan defender Antolin Alcaraz on a free transfer from Brugge.

Wolves

Irish midfielder Stephen Hunt from Hull City; French defender Steven Mouyokolo from Hull City; Scottish forward Steven Fletcher from Burnley for a fee of €7.8m; Belgian defender Jelle van Damme from Anderlecht.

Most of those players are either out of our league or simply not good enough to be in our team

Right Bicks we're in great company of the "havent bought anyone yet" Aren't we, considering how strong our squad already is, being in the company of Blackpool and Blackburn fills me with joy.

:shock:

[AstonMartin82]

we are a fortnight away from the new season and have a smaller squad than last season?

Factually correct but of the three players that have left the club one never played a first team game ( Marshall ) one hasn't kicked a ball for us in two years ( Bouma ) and Harewood never started a Prem game for us and didn't play at all last season.

It is also 30 days till the window closes with plenty of comings and goings to take place. That will be the time to judge the strength of the squad.

Similar to last season then... and we ended up doing better that the season before.

[bickster]

so you are of the opinion that the league is just a run down of balance sheets are you?

if team a spends more than team b they will finish above them? thats it, no chance of upsetting the odds a bit?

No, nor did I say that, I did however say there was a glass ceiling and even though the balance of power is just about to change it will only probably be Man City replacing Liverpool in that equation. Yes odd seasons it is possible but in a sustained manner? its highly improbable. Though in the future (we can hope) that the rules change to make the league more competitive

we dont have some wimbledon crazy gang squad - we have a squad of mostly very good players, who on their day are capable of beating anyone - last season proved it. we dont have a manager who is capable of outwitting a visiting 9-1-1 formation as demonstrated by the likes of wolves and stoke etc. those are the games that cost us and unless mon suddenly swallows a tactical encyclopedia in the next fortnight i cants see it changing. i think that the league is getting harder at the top, so there is every chance in my opinion that we will struggle to finish 6th this year - hence my prognostic of decline for the future.

I agree the league is getting harder at the top, it did last season, we competed well, whats going to change this season to alter that?

[Risso]

We're the only club in the Premier League not to have bought any one yet this summer

Are we? I think you may have been misinformed on that one, there are three clubs who have bought no-one. (Us Blackburn and Blackpool)

[gabbygabbygabbygabbygabby]

we are a fortnight away from the new season and have a smaller squad than last season?

Factually correct but of the three players that have left the club one never played a first team game ( Marshall ) one hasn't kicked a ball for us in two years ( Bouma ) and Harewood never started a Prem game for us and didn't play at all last season.

It is also 30 days till the window closes with plenty of comings and goings to take place. That will be the time to judge the strength of the squad.

It looks like Albrighton and Fonz will be greater additions to the squad too. We need about 3 players and that can be done before the window.

[gabbygabbygabbygabbygabby]

We're the only club in the Premier League not to have bought any one yet this summer

Are we? I think you may have been misinformed on that one, there are three clubs who have bought no-one. (Us Blackburn and Blackpool)

According to The Telegraph website, Blackpool have signed Dekel Keinan and Blackburn have signed Hugo Fernandez.

[Risso]

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. My point is, that every manager buys rubbish from time to time and MON is no different and is certainly no worse than the top managers in the success of purchases department. End of debate.

Saying "end of debate" doesn't actually make it so I'm aftraid. All managers make mistakes in the transfer market, and in my opinion O'Neill makes a lot more than most. That's the reason we can't buy any more players until he gets some of his expensive mistakes off the books. We're the only club in the Premier League not to have bought any one yet this summer, and unless somebody wants the likes of Sidwell or Heskey for £50K a week, we might not get to buy anybody.

What other manager has been told he has to ship out a load of his own expensive mistakes before he can buy anybody else?

Alex Ferguson.

And yet he's managed to spend £16m on Smalling and Hernandez. Are you reading from the Bickster Bumper Book of Football Wrongness?

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Complaining about no new signings a month before the window ends, when we know how MON works, smacks of immature petulance.

We'll buy players, we'll improve and we'll have a good up and down season as per usual.

Now in regards to the original question, I think MON and Aston Villa have plateaued for the time being. Can he take us forward? Probably not. As a club can we go any further than 5th/6th? Probably not. We'll just have to sit it out and wait for the big boys to collapse, which they will. We are well poised for long term sucess, but in the short-middle term I don't think we'll be causing many ripples in the water aside from maybe a cup win or two.

[Risso]

Complaining about no new signings a month before the window ends, when we know how MON works, smacks of immature petulance.

Or maybe it's a reflection of the fact that a manager who has always struggled to get players in on time, now has the added complication of having to sell players first to get the wages down before he can bring anybody else in.