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Better Long Term Holding Midfielder Option- Petrov or NRC?


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Better Long Term Holding Midfielder Option- Petrov or NRC?  

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  1. 1. Better Long Term Holding Midfielder Option- Petrov or NRC?

    • Petrov
      25
    • NRC
      60


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It's based on stats in part, and watching him in part, and his own beliefs of himself somewhat.

I really cannot be arsed to go over it (again) in any detail, but his passing is pretty naff, his touch awful, can't run on the ball despite regularly trying, his tackling is good but it's no good only having that to your bow, and for all his effort and 'trying hard' he actually does **** all. And this from a bloke who thinks he's a box to box mid.

Never seen you present any stats to support this argument. Be very interested if you could. If you have just point me to your post that does.

I am intrigued as to where you are getting your insight as to what Nigel believes about himself.

For all the criticism Petrov's ever got, he does everything NRC does, and can actually play football too.

Except for Nigel can do it for 90 minutes. If you believe Stan has the same energy levels as Nigel then you truly are blinkered in this respect??

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There's a deeper rooted issue to this NRC debate, I believe so anyway. And it's MON's management style that is the main instigator of this debate. MON has achieved a lot in the last four years with Randy's assistance and support; he has brought back a massive excitement and fervor to VP, he deserves all the credit and respect he receives from Villa supporters for his recent successes at our football club, as does Randy.

The man himself is charming, intelligent and powerful; I personally love his nature and attitude when he discusses our football club in the media, even tho I know his view sometimes are verging on propaganda to justify/defend his decisions and sell the club as a whole. When you compare him to DOL - the contrast is exceptional in every way.

The main area I reprobate in MON's management is his team selections and use of squad available to him. I believe this is the profound issue which is causing dispute in topics such as this one. As a supporter, it's extremely difficult to give a clear coherent judgment on players like NRC and it's equally as hard to debate the reasons why he should/shouldn't be playing in the first eleven each week; obviously MON isn't concerned with the fans' opinions and he shouldn't be catering his team around fan-opinion, but I don't believe anyone can say that every player has had a fair time under MON. And it's down to the consistent dogmatic approach to team selection and rotation that these issues are being debated insipidly on this forum.

If certain posters believe that once NRC leaves that debates such as this won't exist, then they are completely wrong.

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Stan is good for 60 mins. Though towards the end of last season I thought he really dipped and looked painfully slow throughout games. Def need a replacement.

NRC can run around and shout at people and point. Waste of time. If he could play for united and just tackle people then pass it 3 yards, he might be ok. We need more.

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Petrov was out on his feet towards the end of the season which was frustrating for the fans because mon didnt change things.

I like nrc i think he was good in the middle and if he would of been given more chances who knows.

The problem now is clear mon doesnt see him in the plans so time to move on for nrc.

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Petrov by about 50000 miles

doesn't give the ball away and also can pass to one of his own players

NRC may be a better athlete but there is little point breaking up the play if you are then going to give it straight back to them again

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Never seen you present any stats to support this argument. Be very interested if you could. If you have just point me to your post that does.

I've just spent half an hour doing numerous searches for them, I did them not too long after the Liverpool home game IIRC, can't find them now but the outcomes where that Stan tackles as well if not better, passes far better, and pretty does everything defensively NRC does as well if not better. I'm not doing the stats again because they took **** ages. I'm sorry I can't find them for whatever reason. TRO and another NRC man should remember them, it was for their benefit.

I am intrigued as to where you are getting your insight as to what Nigel believes about himself.

Here "I look at myself as a box-to-box player," he said. "I am full of energy, I want to be let loose. To have the freedom to go where I want to go".

Except for Nigel can do it for 90 minutes. If you believe Stan has the same energy levels as Nigel then you truly are blinkered in this respect??

I've spoken at length about that being simplisitc bollocks as well. Blandy agreed IIRC, amongst others. To say Petrov is completely out of it at 60 mins every match is childish as hell and patently wrong.

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Petrov by about 50000 miles

doesn't give the ball away and also can pass to one of his own players

NRC may be a better athlete but there is little point breaking up the play if you are then going to give it straight back to them again

I am on neither side.

However, he doesn't give it away much. :?

In fact, I'm sure his passing percentage this season is around 90% when he's played. Similar or better than Petrov.

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what he did best and appreciated the value to the team effort.

Cowans & Mortimer did the passing bit.... Des Just did his destroying job and short passed to them to do the creative bit.when he gets a chance that what NRC does.

That's all well and good but somebody first needs to get into NRC's head that he is just a destroyer, instead he goes charges through the field with the ball, missing obvious passes and getting tackled. If there was a way to take that out of his game and play it simple, excellent. But their isn't, he doesn't see himself like that and I've never seen anything from him to prove me otherwise.
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what he did best and appreciated the value to the team effort.

Cowans & Mortimer did the passing bit.... Des Just did his destroying job and short passed to them to do the creative bit.when he gets a chance that what NRC does.

That's all well and good but somebody first needs to get into NRC's head that he is just a destroyer, instead he goes charges through the field with the ball, missing obvious passes and getting tackled. If there was a way to take that out of his game and play it simple, excellent. But their isn't, he doesn't see himself like that and I've never seen anything from him to prove me otherwise.
Is there any actual evidence of this happening? I would love to see a clip or two if possible.
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Liverpool away, he wins a penalty but also shows us all why he's not a box to box mid, you'd be being very kind to him to claim that ball was under his control when Gerrard steamrollered him.

Does it a lot. After all, he wants his freedom!

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Liverpool away, he wins a penalty but also shows us all why he's not a box to box mid, you'd be being very kind to him to claim that ball was under his control when Gerrard steamrollered him.

Does it a lot. After all, he wants his freedom!

He was excellent that night, if he had lost the ball when he had it at his feet then I would agree. But you can't moan about getting a Pen and scoring the third in a game against Liverpool away that is totally iniquitous.

I strongly believe people are perpetuating his lack of ability to justify or defend other decisions made by MON.

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Liverpool away, he wins a penalty but also shows us all why he's not a box to box mid, you'd be being very kind to him to claim that ball was under his control when Gerrard steamrollered him.

Does it a lot. After all, he wants his freedom!

To be fair him winning the penalty was not why he was MOTM that night.

Anyway I can see arguments for both sides of these two. I think both should still have a role to play in the first team this coming year.

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I think what TRO is saying is that you need balance in a team and our team, particularly in a 4-4-2, lacks someone with a bit of aggression and forward drive in the centre of the park. Invariably, the player that does this in a 4-4-2 will not be a "footballer". If you look at NRCs performances last year we looked a much stronger outfit IMO on the limited occasions that he was allowed to play than when he didn't. He was the MOTM in the two Plop games I think, participated in home win against Fulham and away win against Blues, played in the home game against Spurs and the thrashing of Bolton. I thought he played an important part in every one of the games he played??

I like NRC and I would like him to stay with us but I do not buy into him being this incredible 'destroyer'. For 1 I think that speciality position is overhyped and not good for a team like ours who cannot just rely on our attacking players to score goals, we need all 11 players contributing in all areas, obviously some more than others but NRC contribution for us ranges from little to negative and this is counter productive to our side.

So if the first name is a designated 'destroyer' I will always disagree. We need a midfield that can play, perhaps he could work in a 5 man midfield but in a 442 we cannot afford 1 less player when we are in possession.

Just to reiterate he is a good player who can do a job for us but promoting him to a guaranteed starter would be a huge mistake. All imo of course.

well bearing in mind its all opinions and that is the fascination.

but let me remind you " Incredible" was your word and your interpretation.

We all have our opinions on what line ups should be....and in over 70 years we have won the league title once ( not checked the dates so don't be pedantic)...when we did we played with an out and out Ball Winner, who wasn't blessed with the silky skills, so many crave on here.

I'd risk giving that a try again.... even if it was simply to give it a try.

If we can go 15 games winning 2 with a player that was saying he wants out..... surely we can give that a try with a player that wants to stay and fight for his place.

what messages are we sending out?

I am under the impression that you think Bremner was a great player so that is where I got the word incredible from.

Football has changed a lot and I think if you are going to play with 2 in midfield then they have to do more than just tackle. As I said maybe in a central 3 but he leaves too big gaps for my liking in a 2.

I'm all for giving things a go, I think it is in our best interests to be able to use a few different formations and personnel. This is why I would like NRC to stay.

Gabby, honestly i appreciate your comments.

One of the reasons I feel passionately about NRC's game is this and beleive me I do understand about folk's opinions of his shortfall in passing ability ..except a) I think it is overplayed and exagerrated & B) for the value that the player brings it can be negated.

back to the issue

I used to go in to the Aston Social all them years ago. with a dour view on Des Bremner.... waxing Lyrical about Morley,Shaw Cowans and Bremner....talking in to night about Peter withes goals....Jimmy Rimmer was the best i ever seen and so on.

It took me years, sorry to admit this....to realise the value of Des Bremner, I feel humbled at the fact whan i was in my thirties I thought I knew what I was watching....Des Bremner created the platform for the other to play in.

I don't want to go overboard on NRC'S value, because I simply know it is unlikely it will be recognised.

all I'm saying is that Nigel's value to the team far outweighs his personal skill factor.....Like Des he is far more valuable than his individual performances suggest.

ps ...selling him will be a big mistake.

My main issue with NRC is his indiscipline(not his passing), I do not believe you can be a top CM without it! People compare him with Palacios but I think they are completely different players as Palacios knows his role and sticks to it. Whereas NRC think he is an all action CM which he clearly isn't. Gerrard looked like the perfect midfielder but he is not as he loses his position and against the best sides Liverpool suffered so he was moved the right and then as a second striker where his indiscipline wouldn't cost the team.

I think our wires have been crossed, I rate NRC and do not want to sell him. I understand the importance of breaking up the play(obviously) but in a 2 I do not feel NRC is our man.

He has a place to play in our squad next season but I would hate for it to be a starting role as I don't think he is up to it(top 4 is our aim). I think Petrov can do it talent wise, but I admit he does fade in the 2nd half so he needs help and NRC is capable of that and we all know NRC can put in an immense shift!

I accept I could well be wrong, like you were initially about Bremner but that is something that we will have to wait and see about.

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I think what TRO is saying is that you need balance in a team and our team, particularly in a 4-4-2, lacks someone with a bit of aggression and forward drive in the centre of the park. Invariably, the player that does this in a 4-4-2 will not be a "footballer". If you look at NRCs performances last year we looked a much stronger outfit IMO on the limited occasions that he was allowed to play than when he didn't. He was the MOTM in the two Plop games I think, participated in home win against Fulham and away win against Blues, played in the home game against Spurs and the thrashing of Bolton. I thought he played an important part in every one of the games he played??

I like NRC and I would like him to stay with us but I do not buy into him being this incredible 'destroyer'. For 1 I think that speciality position is overhyped and not good for a team like ours who cannot just rely on our attacking players to score goals, we need all 11 players contributing in all areas, obviously some more than others but NRC contribution for us ranges from little to negative and this is counter productive to our side.

So if the first name is a designated 'destroyer' I will always disagree. We need a midfield that can play, perhaps he could work in a 5 man midfield but in a 442 we cannot afford 1 less player when we are in possession.

Just to reiterate he is a good player who can do a job for us but promoting him to a guaranteed starter would be a huge mistake. All imo of course.

well bearing in mind its all opinions and that is the fascination.

but let me remind you " Incredible" was your word and your interpretation.

We all have our opinions on what line ups should be....and in over 70 years we have won the league title once ( not checked the dates so don't be pedantic)...when we did we played with an out and out Ball Winner, who wasn't blessed with the silky skills, so many crave on here.

I'd risk giving that a try again.... even if it was simply to give it a try.

If we can go 15 games winning 2 with a player that was saying he wants out..... surely we can give that a try with a player that wants to stay and fight for his place.

what messages are we sending out?

I am under the impression that you think Bremner was a great player so that is where I got the word incredible from.

Football has changed a lot and I think if you are going to play with 2 in midfield then they have to do more than just tackle. As I said maybe in a central 3 but he leaves too big gaps for my liking in a 2.

I'm all for giving things a go, I think it is in our best interests to be able to use a few different formations and personnel. This is why I would like NRC to stay.

Gabby, honestly i appreciate your comments.

One of the reasons I feel passionately about NRC's game is this and beleive me I do understand about folk's opinions of his shortfall in passing ability ..except a) I think it is overplayed and exagerrated & B) for the value that the player brings it can be negated.

back to the issue

I used to go in to the Aston Social all them years ago. with a dour view on Des Bremner.... waxing Lyrical about Morley,Shaw Cowans and Bremner....talking in to night about Peter withes goals....Jimmy Rimmer was the best i ever seen and so on.

It took me years, sorry to admit this....to realise the value of Des Bremner, I feel humbled at the fact whan i was in my thirties I thought I knew what I was watching....Des Bremner created the platform for the other to play in.

I don't want to go overboard on NRC'S value, because I simply know it is unlikely it will be recognised.

all I'm saying is that Nigel's value to the team far outweighs his personal skill factor.....Like Des he is far more valuable than his individual performances suggest.

ps ...selling him will be a big mistake.

My main issue with NRC is his indiscipline(not his passing), I do not believe you can be a top CM without it! People compare him with Palacios but I think they are completely different players as Palacios knows his role and sticks to it. Whereas NRC think he is an all action CM which he clearly isn't. Gerrard looked like the perfect midfielder but he is not as he loses his position and against the best sides Liverpool suffered so he was moved the right and then as a second striker where his indiscipline wouldn't cost the team.

I think our wires have been crossed, I rate NRC and do not want to sell him. I understand the importance of breaking up the play(obviously) but in a 2 I do not feel NRC is our man.

He has a place to play in our squad next season but I would hate for it to be a starting role as I don't think he is up to it(top 4 is our aim). I think Petrov can do it talent wise, but I admit he does fade in the 2nd half so he needs help and NRC is capable of that and we all know NRC can put in an immense shift!

I accept I could well be wrong, like you were initially about Bremner but that is something that we will have to wait and see about.

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I think what TRO is saying is that you need balance in a team and our team, particularly in a 4-4-2, lacks someone with a bit of aggression and forward drive in the centre of the park. Invariably, the player that does this in a 4-4-2 will not be a "footballer". If you look at NRCs performances last year we looked a much stronger outfit IMO on the limited occasions that he was allowed to play than when he didn't. He was the MOTM in the two Plop games I think, participated in home win against Fulham and away win against Blues, played in the home game against Spurs and the thrashing of Bolton. I thought he played an important part in every one of the games he played??

I like NRC and I would like him to stay with us but I do not buy into him being this incredible 'destroyer'. For 1 I think that speciality position is overhyped and not good for a team like ours who cannot just rely on our attacking players to score goals, we need all 11 players contributing in all areas, obviously some more than others but NRC contribution for us ranges from little to negative and this is counter productive to our side.

So if the first name is a designated 'destroyer' I will always disagree. We need a midfield that can play, perhaps he could work in a 5 man midfield but in a 442 we cannot afford 1 less player when we are in possession.

Just to reiterate he is a good player who can do a job for us but promoting him to a guaranteed starter would be a huge mistake. All imo of course.

well bearing in mind its all opinions and that is the fascination.

but let me remind you " Incredible" was your word and your interpretation.

We all have our opinions on what line ups should be....and in over 70 years we have won the league title once ( not checked the dates so don't be pedantic)...when we did we played with an out and out Ball Winner, who wasn't blessed with the silky skills, so many crave on here.

I'd risk giving that a try again.... even if it was simply to give it a try.

If we can go 15 games winning 2 with a player that was saying he wants out..... surely we can give that a try with a player that wants to stay and fight for his place.

what messages are we sending out?

I am under the impression that you think Bremner was a great player so that is where I got the word incredible from.

Football has changed a lot and I think if you are going to play with 2 in midfield then they have to do more than just tackle. As I said maybe in a central 3 but he leaves too big gaps for my liking in a 2.

I'm all for giving things a go, I think it is in our best interests to be able to use a few different formations and personnel. This is why I would like NRC to stay.

Gabby, honestly i appreciate your comments.

One of the reasons I feel passionately about NRC's game is this and beleive me I do understand about folk's opinions of his shortfall in passing ability ..except a) I think it is overplayed and exagerrated & B) for the value that the player brings it can be negated.

back to the issue

I used to go in to the Aston Social all them years ago. with a dour view on Des Bremner.... waxing Lyrical about Morley,Shaw Cowans and Bremner....talking in to night about Peter withes goals....Jimmy Rimmer was the best i ever seen and so on.

It took me years, sorry to admit this....to realise the value of Des Bremner, I feel humbled at the fact whan i was in my thirties I thought I knew what I was watching....Des Bremner created the platform for the other to play in.

I don't want to go overboard on NRC'S value, because I simply know it is unlikely it will be recognised.

all I'm saying is that Nigel's value to the team far outweighs his personal skill factor.....Like Des he is far more valuable than his individual performances suggest.

ps ...selling him will be a big mistake.

My main issue with NRC is his indiscipline(not his passing), I do not believe you can be a top CM without it! People compare him with Palacios but I think they are completely different players as Palacios knows his role and sticks to it. Whereas NRC think he is an all action CM which he clearly isn't. Gerrard looked like the perfect midfielder but he is not as he loses his position and against the best sides Liverpool suffered so he was moved the right and then as a second striker where his indiscipline wouldn't cost the team.

I think our wires have been crossed, I rate NRC and do not want to sell him. I understand the importance of breaking up the play(obviously) but in a 2 I do not feel NRC is our man because of my point above.

He has a place to play in our squad next season but I would hate for it to be a starting role as I don't think he is up to it(top 4 is our aim). I think Petrov can do it talent wise, but I admit he does fade in the 2nd half so he needs help and NRC is capable of that and we all know NRC can put in an immense shift!

I accept I could well be wrong, like you were initially about Bremner but that is something that we will have to wait and see about.

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