Better Long Term Holding Midfielder Option- Petrov or NRC?

[avfc_in_essex]

Anywho, it should be said that this topic is just going to retread very well trodden ground, and achieve nothing. There's been countless topics on this and variants of it, and I'm yet to see anyone change their mind. Will be locked soon enough I suspect.

I think you are wrong here. I have changed my mind somewhat over the last 12 months. I can now see a starting XI with Stan in it BUT only if MON recognises that he either needs to play a three man CM (at least for part of the game) or sub Stan when he tires after 60 minutes or so. But even here I think there are some games that would be better suited for NRC to start ahead of Stan. I think our back 4 should be fairly steady and not changed ad hoc but the front 6 should be much more fluid and interchangeable (starting XI and substitutions) if we are not going to burn out again and to keep the opposition guessing as we are too predictable at the minute.

If NRC was to accept his footballing limits and realise that the position is best for him, then it would obviously be NRC. I've seen nothing from Petrov to suggest that he's 'exceptionally good' at the role either, he does a competent job, nothing more.

Did you go to the Bolton home game last year Jonno? NRC sat in front of the back 4 and Sidwell was much more advanced. The only chance that NRC had last year in competitive football in a 4-4-2 with a more attacking CM'er in front of him and he seemed to accept this role pretty well to me.

I was at the Bolton game and to be fair, Bolton were so poor, Guzan could have played in CM and we'd have still won comfortably.

Not taking anything against NRC from that game however, for me personally i would always pick Stan over NRC. However i would use them both in a 4-5-1 against sides like Chelsea, Everton etc who like to play narrow.

The problem with NRC in a 4-4-2 is his lack of footballing brain. He's hesitant on the ball which often leads us giving away possesion, he doesnt pick out obvious passes and alot of times will make the wrong decisions. The way we play with a 4-4-2, we need to be getting the ball wide quick in order to break sides down especially at home. If NRC was to become the first choise holding player - this wouldnt happen (or happen even less). In a 4-5-1 he can play the destroyer and put in MOTM perforamnces (Anfield last season) but i think a 4-4-2 to be just a tackling player isn't enough to break down defensive opposotion.

FWIW i do like NRC and i do wish he was used more often from the bench, purely for his energy and determination but for me Stan is the preferred option.

[mrbojangles]

NRC all the way when he is not played in defence he can be a very good player, however long term Delph

[barry'sboots]

I was at the Bolton game and to be fair, Bolton were so poor, Guzan could have played in CM and we'd have still won comfortably.

This is the consistent response of those that prefer Stan and I just don't buy it. Bolton finished the league in 14th position ahead of Wolves, Wigan and West Ham, all of whom we failed to break down at home with MON's preferred DCM - Stan.

This was, as I said, the only chance that Nigel got in a 4-4-2 with an attacking CM partner and he was very good and very disciplined (which was Jonno's question mark I believe). I accept that he is not an Alonso or Huddlestone but his short passing was consistently good, when given a chance, last year and I feel he creates a much better tempo with his drive and energy. The lesser teams will not take us on for football but they do have energy and can press us/overcrowd us, which I think negates Stan's footballing ability, forces him to look back for an outlet and allows them to get ten men behind the ball which we then struggle to break down. Nigel is much more direct and wants to drive or pass forward - doesn't always work (forward passes are obviously much more risky than sideways/backwards) but when it does it can open up these poorer sides. Against the better sides, if we are playing 4-4-2 which I wouldn't, Stan's calmness and ball retention is probably more suited, although I still think he tires after 60 and either needs to be supplemented (with a switch to 3 man CM) or subbed to give us some energy and push back.

[GarethRDR]

If we could somehow combine Reo-Coker's speed/energy with Petrov's tidyness on the ball and reading of the game we'd have quite a player on our hands.

[jon_c]

Its a totally a loaded question, by adding the "long term". Knowing Petrov is too old to be considered a long term option.

So I'm not voting because the only answer to that question is neither.

[avfc_in_essex]

I was at the Bolton game and to be fair, Bolton were so poor, Guzan could have played in CM and we'd have still won comfortably.

This is the consistent response of those that prefer Stan and I just don't buy it. Bolton finished the league in 14th position ahead of Wolves, Wigan and West Ham, all of whom we failed to break down at home with MON's preferred DCM - Stan.

This was, as I said, the only chance that Nigel got in a 4-4-2 with an attacking CM partner and he was very good and very disciplined (which was Jonno's question mark I believe). I accept that he is not an Alonso or Huddlestone but his short passing was consistently good, when given a chance, last year and I feel he creates a much better tempo with his drive and energy. The lesser teams will not take us on for football but they do have energy and can press us/overcrowd us, which I think negates Stan's footballing ability, forces him to look back for an outlet and allows them to get ten men behind the ball which we then struggle to break down. Nigel is much more direct and wants to drive or pass forward - doesn't always work (forward passes are obviously much more risky than sideways/backwards) but when it does it can open up these poorer sides. Against the better sides, if we are playing 4-4-2 which I wouldn't, Stan's calmness and ball retention is probably more suited, although I still think he tires after 60 and either needs to be supplemented (with a switch to 3 man CM) or subbed to give us some energy and push back.

Bear in mind when we played Bolton at VP they were still under Gary Megson and if i recall were very close or even in the relegation zone. However that is besides the point and as i said im not taking anything away from NRC's performance that day. However i dont think the result would have been much different if Stan were playing.

Personally i dont think either are good enough to where we want to be. The most obvious and realistc target in that position would be Scott Parker but even then questions could be asked about his age and the fee.

[Brumstopdogs]

NRC without a doubt.

Petrov is the better passer but tires after about 60 minutes.

NRC has more drive, more energy and I think we look a better team with him in centre midfield (not right midfield and not right back)

[gabbygabbygabbygabbygabby]

Don't forget NRC leaves his position at every possible chance, good CM's do not do this. That lack of discipline stopped Gerrard from being a CM. Petrov is comfortably better than NRC but NRC is still a good player.

[PieFacE]

It's a bit of a stupid question considering the age of Petrov and the fact you've stated long term. It's always going to swing in NRCs favour because of his age.

But just because he gets more votes, deosnt mean he's a good player, Petrov will always be a million times better then NRC.

Let's face it, NRC is an athlete not a footballer. Not what you want in the middle of your pitch when you play 4-4-2. He'd work well in 4-5-1... but he still cant play football.

Get rid.

Needs to be an "other" option in this poll.

[Brumerican]

Neither. Villa need better CM's than both of these players.

[TRO]

Why isn't delph in this if its long term

....cause he ain't proved anything.

speculation is all very cosy.... but its like don't tell me show me.

[barry'sboots]

Neither. Villa need better CM's than both of these players.

Yes. Lets sign Busquets and Xavi!

Saying this is fine but where are the suggestions and is this a priority for us at the minute. I would personally love to see NRC given a run alongside Jimmy or more interestingly for me alongside Jimmy and Fabian in a 3 man CM.

[TRO]

NRC, very underrated.

its the biggest joke at Villa park, that NRC don't play

Ron Saunders would have him as the first name on the team sheet, just like he did with Des Bremner.

its people who can't read a game who have him as dogshit.... cause basically they don't know what is going on out there.

To say he can't do this and can't do that is a complete farce.

the same folk need to look at the things there so called stars are doing..... cause they simply ain't... its a myth.

listening to some of the complete jokers, if you beleived what they say , we would have won the league.

[gabbygabbygabbygabbygabby]

NRC, very underrated.

its the biggest joke at Villa park, that NRC don't play

Ron Saunders would have him as the first name on the team sheet, just like he did with Des Bremner.

its people who can't read a game who have him as dogshit.... cause basically they don't know what is going on out there.

To say he can't do this and can't do that is a complete farce.

the same folk need to look at the things there so called stars are doing..... cause they simply ain't... its a myth.

listening to some of the complete jokers, if you beleived what they say , we would have won the league.

Did you just compare NRC to Bremner and then attack other people for having inflated views on some of our players?? Wow!

[TRO]

NRC, very underrated.

its the biggest joke at Villa park, that NRC don't play

Ron Saunders would have him as the first name on the team sheet, just like he did with Des Bremner.

its people who can't read a game who have him as dogshit.... cause basically they don't know what is going on out there.

To say he can't do this and can't do that is a complete farce.

the same folk need to look at the things there so called stars are doing..... cause they simply ain't... its a myth.

listening to some of the complete jokers, if you beleived what they say , we would have won the league.

Did you just compare NRC to Bremner and then attack other people for having inflated views on some of our players?? Wow!

of course its about opinions and that has to be accepted.

But Des wasn't blessed with passing ability like Nigel isn't too ( theres a shock for a defensive midfielder) but the discerning Villa Fans of that era never expected him to....They valued him for what he did best and appreciated the value to the team effort.

Cowans & Mortimer did the passing bit.... Des Just did his destroying job and short passed to them to do the creative bit.when he gets a chance that what NRC does.

we kinda understood that in them days.

some are now looking for a team full of wingers or pretty players.

I say get on with it.

[avfc89]

Neither. Villa need better CM's than both of these players.

I would personally love to see NRC given a run alongside Jimmy or more interestingly for me alongside Jimmy and Fabian in a 3 man CM.

I think we all would welcome experimentation but, as usual, this scenario won't ever occur due to many different factors.

[barry'sboots]

But Des wasn't blessed with passing ability like Nigel isn't too ( theres a shock for a defensive midfielder) but the discerning Villa Fans of that era never expected him to....They valued him for what he did best and appreciated the value to the team effort.

Cowans & Mortimer did the passing bit.... Des Just did his destroying job and short passed to them to do the creative bit.when he gets a chance that what NRC does.

we kinda understood that in them days.

some are now looking for a team full of wingers or pretty players.

I say get on with it.

The best illustration of this for me is the difference between Spurs before and after Palacios joined. I don't believe Palacios is any better than NRC??

[gabbygabbygabbygabbygabby]

NRC, very underrated.

its the biggest joke at Villa park, that NRC don't play

Ron Saunders would have him as the first name on the team sheet, just like he did with Des Bremner.

its people who can't read a game who have him as dogshit.... cause basically they don't know what is going on out there.

To say he can't do this and can't do that is a complete farce.

the same folk need to look at the things there so called stars are doing..... cause they simply ain't... its a myth.

listening to some of the complete jokers, if you beleived what they say , we would have won the league.

Did you just compare NRC to Bremner and then attack other people for having inflated views on some of our players?? Wow!

of course its about opinions and that has to be accepted.

But Des wasn't blessed with passing ability like Nigel isn't too ( theres a shock for a defensive midfielder) but the discerning Villa Fans of that era never expected him to....They valued him for what he did best and appreciated the value to the team effort.

Cowans & Mortimer did the passing bit.... Des Just did his destroying job and short passed to them to do the creative bit.when he gets a chance that what NRC does.

we kinda understood that in them days.

some are now looking for a team full of wingers or pretty players.

I say get on with it.

I never got to see him play. But I've seen clips and I know how highly he is regarded by Villa fans. This is a player that won the league and EC. Saying NRC should be the first name on the teamsheet like Bremner was is nonsense. NRC is a good midtable player, absolutely nothing more!

[Gompedyret]

Forgot the third option: "None of them".

[barry'sboots]

I think what TRO is saying is that you need balance in a team and our team, particularly in a 4-4-2, lacks someone with a bit of aggression and forward drive in the centre of the park. Invariably, the player that does this in a 4-4-2 will not be a "footballer". If you look at NRCs performances last year we looked a much stronger outfit IMO on the limited occasions that he was allowed to play than when he didn't. He was the MOTM in the two Plop games I think, participated in home win against Fulham and away win against Blues, played in the home game against Spurs and the thrashing of Bolton. I thought he played an important part in every one of the games he played??