barry'sboots Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 What I heard him say is that people are talking £20m for players that aren't as good as Nzogbia and the press, I think, are interpreting this as he wants £20m. The contract situation will have a massive impact on his valuation though but Whelan is just trying to create an auction and get more clubs interested - can't blame him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 A rather splendid analysis of the Downing situation that I agree with 110% I would also like to add this, you mention the fans bitching and moaning about the situation on here. For me the reason they do this and aim their anger at Downing is because his situation is actually an inconvenient truth about the current status of our club and our ability to compete at a higher level and attract / retain the better players. A truth that those who bitch and moan at Downing in the main do not want to accept but recognise none the less and as such not wishing to accept the situation direct their anger on the player rather than the cause of his decision. I am a fan of this club and have been for over 40 years but even I can see why Downing wants to leave and am fully sympathetic to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Downing can say the **** he wants to be honest. It's nothing compared to the shambles work by the board.So the board making a bad appointment somehow doesn't make Downing a prick for all of the things he's said? Maybe Downing has seen the board's ambition or lack of, and has decided that as things have changed for the worse, he needs to reassess his career options?Maybe, maybe not, but that still doesn't make his behavior acceptable even if it is true. What behaviour? Wanting to get the most of his career? He hasn't said or done anything out of order, he hasn't demanded a move or bitched to the press. All he has done is go back on previous statements, which given the situation changed is understandable. His first set of comments were when it looked like we were going into a 2nd season under Houllier, then things changed and once again we were starting again. Now don't get me wrong I'm still delighted that Houllier went even if I'm not happy with who replaced him but the simple fact is things changed and so it seems did Downings views. Now that might well also have been changed because of people whispering in his ear or because of a confirmed offer who knows but the reality for me is this. The team and the club that Downing finds himself a part of now is not the same team and club with which he signed not so long ago. He joined us from Boro because we were ambitious, progressive and trying to achieve something, we aren't that club any more and if Downing had any doubt about this the proof was provided for him by the arrival of McLeish. The landscape at the club has changed it is understandable therefore if players attitudes to the club have changed. I think Downing owes the club a little more after they signed him injured but in reality he probably felt he had that debt to O'Neill rather than the club. It is also unrealistic to expect a player to stay for this reason alone and lets be honest we as a club aren't giving him many other reasons to want to stay are we. If Downing wants out he is doing nothing different to what 99% of players would do in his circumstances. We can bitch and moan about it all we want, we can call him all the names we want but it isn't going to change anything especially as the problem here and the real issue isn't Downing its those people running the club who have frankly made quite appalling decisions over the last 12 months and arguably for quite a bit longer than that. Most of us don't think we are going anywhere as a club so I'm struggling to think why people are lambasting a player for thinking the same in the face of offers to move to clubs that are. If people really think that players, any players are going to put the feelings of fans and the wishes of clubs ahead of their own careers, goals, ambitions and wealth then they are kidding themselves. Downing is no more a villain than any other footballer out there, they are all the same and the truth is if we were in their shoes we would all likely do the same. If I were playing for a club that held no emotional attachment to me that had gone through the 12 months we have and I had the chance to go to Arsenal or Liverpool I would likely want to take it. A proper post. I am sick of people slating realistic posts as negative, it smacks of fingers in the ear "lalalalaing". The McLeish appointment is a statement alright but not a positive one. The fans deep down know what it means, the players know what it means and Downing for one wants out. I hope something significant happens to change the status quo because the worse thing that can happen is death by a thousand cuts as we loiter in mid table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 A rather splendid analysis of the Downing situation that I agree with 110% I would also like to add this, you mention the fans bitching and moaning about the situation on here. For me the reason they do this and aim their anger at Downing is because his situation is actually an inconvenient truth about the current status of our club and our ability to compete at a higher level and attract / retain the better players. A truth that those who bitch and moan at Downing in the main do not want to accept but recognise none the less and as such not wishing to accept the situation direct their anger on the player rather than the cause of his decision. I am a fan of this club and have been for over 40 years but even I can see why Downing wants to leave and am fully sympathetic to it. You only have to look at the Modric/Clichy/Nasri situations to see how the food chain works in football. It is just the way of the world. The key to the situation is how we re-invest the proceeds to ensure that we can improve our team and keep generating players that the big clubs want. The Bosman ruling has damaged football irrevocably IMO but we have to recognise this and work within these parameters to improve our club. I don't blame DJ. I just don't see why he would want to move to Plop as I see them as being a club that could have serious problems moving forward with their best players - Stevie G and Carragher - now on the backside of their career and owners that don't, IMO, really understand football and are trying to make money out of it in a market place where there are a number that are using football as a play thing and blowing all commercial propositions out of the water. Arsenal would be a much better destination for Downing from my point of view - they would fit his style perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Whelan wants 20mill for N'Zog I think hes playing silly ****. Thinking about it, does anybody think that Whelan saying that is just an attempt to give Liverpool a kick up the arse? Basically making Liverpool think 'Downing or N'Zogbia for 20m? we'll take Downing thanks. Heres your 20m Mr Lerner' Then we go back to Wigan, give then 12m of the 20 we just got and everybodys happy? Or maybe not. Imagination is getting a little carried away He hasn't even said they want £20m. He's said he sees players going for that who he's better than. Then he admitted they need to sell him because of his contract. I do wish people (and I mean journalists not just fans) read more than the headline figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCVilla2011 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 What behaviour? Wanting to get the most of his career? He hasn't said or done anything out of order, he hasn't demanded a move or bitched to the press. All he has done is go back on previous statements, which given the situation changed is understandable. His first set of comments were when it looked like we were going into a 2nd season under Houllier, then things changed and once again we were starting again. Now don't get me wrong I'm still delighted that Houllier went even if I'm not happy with who replaced him but the simple fact is things changed and so it seems did Downings views. Now that might well also have been changed because of people whispering in his ear or because of a confirmed offer who knows but the reality for me is this. The team and the club that Downing finds himself a part of now is not the same team and club with which he signed not so long ago. He joined us from Boro because we were ambitious, progressive and trying to achieve something, we aren't that club any more and if Downing had any doubt about this the proof was provided for him by the arrival of McLeish. The landscape at the club has changed it is understandable therefore if players attitudes to the club have changed. I think Downing owes the club a little more after they signed him injured but in reality he probably felt he had that debt to O'Neill rather than the club. It is also unrealistic to expect a player to stay for this reason alone and lets be honest we as a club aren't giving him many other reasons to want to stay are we. If Downing wants out he is doing nothing different to what 99% of players would do in his circumstances. We can bitch and moan about it all we want, we can call him all the names we want but it isn't going to change anything especially as the problem here and the real issue isn't Downing its those people running the club who have frankly made quite appalling decisions over the last 12 months and arguably for quite a bit longer than that. Most of us don't think we are going anywhere as a club so I'm struggling to think why people are lambasting a player for thinking the same in the face of offers to move to clubs that are. If people really think that players, any players are going to put the feelings of fans and the wishes of clubs ahead of their own careers, goals, ambitions and wealth then they are kidding themselves. Downing is no more a villain than any other footballer out there, they are all the same and the truth is if we were in their shoes we would all likely do the same. If I were playing for a club that held no emotional attachment to me that had gone through the 12 months we have and I had the chance to go to Arsenal or Liverpool I would likely want to take it. Top post. owners that don't, IMO, really understand football and are trying to make money out of it What makes you say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 owners that don't, IMO, really understand football and are trying to make money out of it What makes you say this? Because I think it is unlike the US sports models and very difficult to make money from a UK football club now. Randy has certainly acknowledged this fact in the past. As I understand it, FSG have a long term aim to make money out of Plop - they are business people investing for capital growth. The Glaziers might well do it with, arguably, one of the top two or three brands in the world but outside of this I think it will be very difficult, especially when you are up against the rash spending power of Mansour and Abramovich, to do this. The fair play regs will also, to some extent, change the landscape. I don't think anyone is really sure about this and who it will benefit and won't. I think Plop could be in a difficult position if things don't go well and I am not seeing them developing home grown talent in the way that they have in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRS-T Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Thing is, we all knew that Ash was going to United from probably the start of the last season. Ash maintained a dignified silence when asked about his future by the media/in the press. He showed respect to the club and the fans respected him for that. Downing on the other hand has blabbed off to the press before an official bid was even made by Liverpool. He disrespected the club and it's fans. You just want the best for your career. You want to finish with medals at the end of it so, if it's a step up with Villa or with someone else, then I'm ready for it Why is he mentioning "someone else" Thanks Stewart :| Will I be at Villa next season? I'm not sure After you said "I'm looking forward to next season already." Lying to your own fans. Thanks Stewart :| It's up to their fans and their opinions of me. If they want to be loud and clear with what they think of me, then that's fine Why is he saying "their fans" He is still an Aston Villa player. He should be saying "the fans" or "our fans". "Their fans" implies that he doesn't play for Villa anymore, or that we are fans of another club to the one he is at. Thanks Stewart :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I do not agree that McCleish coming in is a sign of NO ambtion. He is a good manager. Not one single player at Blues has critiscised him, since he walked through the door or out of it. Since he left - the silence has been deafening from SHA players... all that's happened is that players wanted to and are leaving. I know people think we've signed the next Avram Grant but he's a class act and he gets people wanting to play for him. If he's put his foot down and Downing ain't going anywhere unless a stupid offer comes in or he submits a transfer request. Rumours are SD hasn't submitted a transfer request and isn't going to neither... However things in football can change and change quickly........this is just my feeling and what I'm hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I do not agree that McCleish coming in is a sign of NO ambtion. He is a good manager. Not one single player at Blues has critiscised him, since he walked through the door or out of it. Since he left - the silence has been deafening from SHA players... all that's happened is that players wanted to and are leaving. I know people think we've signed the next Avram Grant but he's a class act and he gets people wanting to play for him. If he's put his foot down and Downing ain't going anywhere unless a stupid offer comes in or he submits a transfer request. Rumours are SD hasn't submitted a transfer request and isn't going to neither... However things in football can change and change quickly........this is just my feeling and what I'm hearing. the players havent spoken as they let their football do the talking, they got relegated.. twice so they didnt talk very well i honestly dont get this theory he is good with the players and gets the best out of them he hasnt shown it since he came to england. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Great post from Trent. Regardless of all the talk he's a very good player. Would like to see him stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikePreece Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Spot on Trent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hercs23 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 i know everyone hates articles from the mirror but there reporting liverpool will bid 18.5mil for downing this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I do not agree that McCleish coming in is a sign of NO ambtion. He is a good manager. Not one single player at Blues has critiscised him, since he walked through the door or out of it. Since he left - the silence has been deafening from SHA players... all that's happened is that players wanted to and are leaving. I know people think we've signed the next Avram Grant but he's a class act and he gets people wanting to play for him. If he's put his foot down and Downing ain't going anywhere unless a stupid offer comes in or he submits a transfer request. Rumours are SD hasn't submitted a transfer request and isn't going to neither... However things in football can change and change quickly........this is just my feeling and what I'm hearing. the players havent spoken as they let their football do the talking, they got relegated.. twice so they didnt talk very well i honestly dont get this theory he is good with the players and gets the best out of them he hasnt shown it since he came to england. I see your two relegations and raise you a highest league finish since the second world war and a first major trophy at Wembley. All in the context of being a very poor club of course. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Great post from Trent. Regardless of all the talk he's a very good player. Would like to see him stay. Agree that he is a very good player. He was rightly our POTS last season. But if you could get £20m for DJ and that funded the purchase of NZogbia and Johnson or Shaqiri, leaving the Ash money for other areas, would you not take this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Great post from Trent. Regardless of all the talk he's a very good player. Would like to see him stay. Agree that he is a very good player. He was rightly our POTS last season. But if you could get £20m for DJ and that funded the purchase of NZogbia and Johnson or Shaqiri, leaving the Ash money for other areas, would you not take this? If it worked as simply as DJ leaving equaling NZogbia and Johnson arriving, I would be tempted. Can't see it though as I don't think the following will happen: 1) DJ submitting a transfer request OR liverpool offering enough cash. 2) citeh accepting a reasonable bid AND Johnson wanting to come to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyOne Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Great post from Trent. Regardless of all the talk he's a very good player. Would like to see him stay. Agree that he is a very good player. He was rightly our POTS last season. But if you could get £20m for DJ and that funded the purchase of NZogbia and Johnson or Shaqiri, leaving the Ash money for other areas, would you not take this? It would make sense to buy them first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Certainly, wasn't the case with Young but now we have a manage IF Downing was to leave we must have a replacement ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Great post from Trent. Regardless of all the talk he's a very good player. Would like to see him stay. Agree that he is a very good player. He was rightly our POTS last season. But if you could get £20m for DJ and that funded the purchase of NZogbia and Johnson or Shaqiri, leaving the Ash money for other areas, would you not take this? If it worked as simply as DJ leaving equaling NZogbia and Johnson arriving, I would be tempted. Can't see it though as I don't think the following will happen: 1) DJ submitting a transfer request OR liverpool offering enough cash. 2) citeh accepting a reasonable bid AND Johnson wanting to come to us. Well if they don't then I would agree and Johnson was just an example - what about NZogbia and Shaqiri?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Liverpool fans hearing a £19.75 million bid accepted, coming from a Villa ITK. Has that been mentioned on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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