Stevo985 Posted September 6, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, DJ_Villain said: Would you be happy to score the deciding goal that sent Villa down if it meant you got a shiney little medal and you could raise a trophy with all your new friends? But this is a completely made up scenario that has only a very very tiny chance of ever happening. And then even if it did you're claiming he'd be happy about relegating Villa which I very much doubt he would. So basically you're upset because of a totally hypothetical situation that you've invented that will almost certainly never happen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, DJ_Villain said: Would you be happy to score the deciding goal that sent Villa down if it meant you got a shiney little medal and you could raise a trophy with all your new friends? As was said on the previous page, in the case of your unlikely scenario, it wouldn't be Jack's goal that relegated us, it would be *an entire season of bad results*. Look, part of a player moving is that they play against their old team. He will be happy if he scores against us, because he is a professional doing a job first, and a fan second. I don't understand why people have such difficulty understanding that this is a job for footballers. The game has been professional for about a hundred years! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornso Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Don't think there is much point in speculating about Jack coming back at this point. Who knows where we will be in 3,4,5,6 years time & who knows where he will be at as a player? There might be a situation where it is beneficial for both parties but that would involve the stars aligning and there are a lot of variables that would need to fall into line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, PaulC said: Ive seen them all and Grealish is the best talent we have ever had, the only downside is that he never scored enough goals 10 hours ago, PaulC said: For me legends are the ones that took us to Glory. So I'll leave that to the likes of Withe, Mortimer and Cowans. 8 hours ago, barry'sboots said: I really can't understand the hate. I love watching Grealish play. He is definitely the best Villa player I have seen (I am 54) and is right up there with the best premier league players at "10" or "11" for me. Such a talent. If you're 54 did you get the chance to see Gary Shaw play? Shaw was produced by our great club and was a better footballer than Jack. Also a far more effective player. Won the league and the European Cup. Also the Super Cup. PFA Young player of the year and he won the "Bravo Award" for best U23 player in Europe. He may well have won the Balon d'or if Platini hadn't been winning the French centric competition 3 years in a row. Jack's got a long way to go to match those achievements and if he even gets close to it he certainly won't be wearing a Villa anymore. He's wonderful footballer to watch but he's not the best we've produced, and a far way from the most effective. Just for fun: Grealish: 95 games 15 goals Anwar El Ghazi: 115 games 26 goals And while I was researching I also noticed Luke Moore: 91 games 15 goals Edited September 7, 2021 by TheAuthority 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 18 hours ago, Stevo985 said: See to me you're putting Laursen and Mellberg as "legends" purely because they left when we were ok with them leaving. Laursen played less than 100 games for Villa and achieved less thank Jack did, wasn't as good a player as Jack was, captained us less times and only played for us because he had a bad injury as opposed to coming up through the ranks at the club. Why is he a legend and grealish isn't? Because he retired here? If jack had done his cruciate in the summer and had to retire would he be a legend? Mellberg let his contract run down and left for Juventus on a free. Is that worse than how Jack has left? Or because he bought everyone a shirt does that make him a legend? I've said it dozens of times. Grealish is getting punished by our fans for being good enough for an elite club to want him. In the eyes of the fans he'd have been better off being shit and staying here for his whole career. It's backwards I didn't say they were legends. That was the point, they aren't but they are still closer to it than the likes of Grealish. Behaviour is a key component of legend status, just being a bit good at football does not make Grealish a legend, in fact his behaviour makes him a bell end. Leaving for an "elite" club is not the problem, it is the manner in which it was done. I am surprised people need that explaining to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 16 hours ago, Zatman said: If Hutton is considered a legend by some then so is Grealish. I dont believe either are Jack still could be but he isnt now. I think Barry and Mellberg are probably the closest in the last 15 years Who considers Hutton a legend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 6 hours ago, TheAuthority said: If you're 54 did you get the chance to see Gary Shaw play? Shaw was produced by our great club and was a better footballer than Jack. Also a far more effective player. Won the league and the European Cup. Also the Super Cup. PFA Young player of the year and he won the "Bravo Award" for best U23 player in Europe. He may well have won the Balon d'or if Platini hadn't been winning the French centric competition 3 years in a row. Jack's got a long way to go to match those achievements and if he even gets close to it he certainly won't be wearing a Villa anymore. He's wonderful footballer to watch but he's not the best we've produced, and a far way from the most effective. Just for fun: Grealish: 95 games 15 goals Anwar El Ghazi: 115 games 26 goals And while I was researching I also noticed Luke Moore: 91 games 15 goals Though fair points a more telling way of looking at his effectiveness would be our win ratios with and without him over the last 3 or 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: I didn't say they were legends. That was the point, they aren't but they are still closer to it than the likes of Grealish. Behaviour is a key component of legend status, just being a bit good at football does not make Grealish a legend, in fact his behaviour makes him a bell end. Leaving for an "elite" club is not the problem, it is the manner in which it was done. I am surprised people need that explaining to them. I do need it explaining because I don't understand how the manner in which he left is bad. He stayed with Villa for longer than the vast majority of players as talented as he would, he signed a new contract to ensure we'd get more money if he did leave despite it making it harder for him to leave, he didn't kick up a fuss, he's never said anything but good things about the club, and he's left for an elite club for a record fee. What was he meant to do differently? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: he signed a new contract to ensure we'd get more money if he did leave despite it making it harder for him to leave Iirc he didn't have a release clause in his previous contract so his new contract actually made it easier for him to leave as it removed NSWE's option to refuse all bids, which they surely would have taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny_Villaman84 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: Who considers Hutton a legend? definitely not! he is Cult Heroes for Birmingham City goal and did well when come on pitch but not gain A LEGEND status as he is not that great player, he is average player for us. back to topic Grealish is under "Greatest Player" - definitely not Legend or maybe Cults Heroes - the fact is: He is a Best Player ever play for us and maybe best player even England have this generation and era. and Great to watch him player ever for us. His Football talent is one of the beautiful to watch player. AND last reason he is "Our" - as He was Villa Supporter and OUR Player, Our Youth Product, LOCAL. - but we will remember him bad about him as he left us and make comment about something that turn the table around by him or Media (most of Media groom him left club and he make this happen) Problem is cause push him go is play Champions or Europa Leagues (we cant offered him which understand - yet we knew it is we likely in Europe completion by End of the Season or Next season - he could've patient and play for us if he real loyalist and love club and don't want play any other club than Villa which i would stay regard) I don't blame him and understand yet wish he stay with us... and England (England other one of faeces reason to force him go top 4 clubs to get automatic starter for England even he is way better that top 4 not matter who he play for outers top 6) I don't understand this - if he play for us to make force people will say why he is not play for England so it is could help break top 6 rules to regular player it is media will help force FA to help make England big changing and new way. Southgate force him to move Top 6 club and FA force Southgate pick Top 6 except DM players or Right back from top 6. it would make better team to focus talent and suit tactical, mental, team regard who they play for and goal is to win Cup he is not Legend cos he is not win for us any trophy and he is not sent us to Europe Completion, or goal final to win cup, lots of goal or assist. Will remember him as Cult Heroes for take us to Premiership and solo destroy Liverpool twice (FA Semi and 7-2), and Action Brummies rival fan punch him and goal, and become captain to get 10+ unlosses and winning streak. that all i can think of him. PLUS our first 100 millions record and selling our acdemy to straight to transfer i think he is one highest and record of wholes world i think. it is our Cult Heroes that all! Edited September 7, 2021 by Danny_Villaman84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said: Iirc he didn't have a release clause in his previous contract so his new contract actually made it easier for him to leave as it removed NSWE's option to refuse all bids, which they surely would have taken I disagree. It made it easier for him to leave if a club was willing to bid 100m for him. But 12 months ago that didn't seem very likely at all. 100m would have seemed ludicrous for Grealish. Plus if he was running down his old contract he could have gone for a lot less this summer. The new contract basically meant he had to have an outstanding season, so good that a club would have to be willing to pay a record fee for him. That's what happened. But if he wasn't quite good enough to attract Man City he'd still be here and it would be much harder for him to leave with a newer and more lucrative contract That new contract has paid for itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I disagree. It made it easier for him to leave if a club was willing to bid 100m for him. But 12 months ago that didn't seem very likely at all. 100m would have seemed ludicrous for Grealish. Plus if he was running down his old contract he could have gone for a lot less this summer. His old contract would've still had multiple years left even if he didn't sign a new one iirc. My only point is that his new contract appears to have made it possible for him to leave this summer, or at least removed the option of NSWE to decide to keep him. For all we know though, there was a release clause in that contract as well and they had no choice either way. Edited September 7, 2021 by YouUnastanFren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 13 hours ago, DJ_Villain said: But we arent in Europe at the moment are we? We are in the Premier League and have made improvements every year since the owners took over... and our talisman got tapped up on international duty and ditched us, and is now contractually obliged to try to beat us twice a season... If it was just in cup competitions, and it was the luck of the draw that we ended up playing against him (like in Europe) then thats just bad luck... but to willingly give up our clubs captaincy, and want to go to another club in the same country and still spit this bullshit mantra of "Im Villa through and through"? Im not buying it... No Villa fan would ever willingly want to do that... I've said it before and I will say it again... I am a Villa fan... Not a football fan, not an England fan... I have no love for any other team... I'd rather win a throw in for Villa than any number of medals for any other English club... If his contract had run out and he was being forced out by management even though he wanted to stay (like Albrighton and Carew), I would have wished him well If his contract was running out and he went abroad (like Mellberg), I would have wished him well... If injury or sickness stopped his career and he had to retire (like Laursen and Petrov), I would have wished him well... Grealish has blotted his copy book.... and he wont care what we think because he gets to win his trophies... Bully for him... But as soon as a journalist gives him short shrift and ruffles his feathers, he didnt like it one bit... He doesnt love or support our club... He just didnt want to have bad publicity for ditching us... So he tried to butter us up with "See you soons", "Up the Villas" and "Villa till I dies" etc I seem to recall Joe Lolley banging in goals against us whilst at Forest, and he used to post on here. Are we saying he's not a Villa fan? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 8 hours ago, TheAuthority said: If you're 54 did you get the chance to see Gary Shaw play? Shaw was produced by our great club and was a better footballer than Jack. Also a far more effective player. Won the league and the European Cup. Also the Super Cup. PFA Young player of the year and he won the "Bravo Award" for best U23 player in Europe. He may well have won the Balon d'or if Platini hadn't been winning the French centric competition 3 years in a row. Jack's got a long way to go to match those achievements and if he even gets close to it he certainly won't be wearing a Villa anymore. He's wonderful footballer to watch but he's not the best we've produced, and a far way from the most effective. Just for fun: Grealish: 95 games 15 goals Anwar El Ghazi: 115 games 26 goals And while I was researching I also noticed Luke Moore: 91 games 15 goals Shaw and Grealish are totally different players really. Shaw had a great touch and was a great finisher. Grealish should get more goals but hes always trying to create rather than score for himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 14 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: I seem to recall Joe Lolley banging in goals against us whilst at Forest, and he used to post on here. Are we saying he's not a Villa fan? He celebrated too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, Zatman said: He celebrated too He did indeed. Very few of us can put ourselves in their shoes where, as a fan, you have the ability to either play for, or against, the team you love. The personal victory in one's career as a professional footballer is very different to any of us in our armchairs saying that they couldn't do the same. Was Dean Smith not a Villa fan when Brentford tonked us and played a part in not getting back to the Premier League? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 56 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: I seem to recall Joe Lolley banging in goals against us whilst at Forest, and he used to post on here. Are we saying he's not a Villa fan? 42 minutes ago, Zatman said: He celebrated too 30 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: He did indeed. Very few of us can put ourselves in their shoes where, as a fan, you have the ability to either play for, or against, the team you love. The personal victory in one's career as a professional footballer is very different to any of us in our armchairs saying that they couldn't do the same. Was Dean Smith not a Villa fan when Brentford tonked us and played a part in not getting back to the Premier League? It's almost as if DJVillan is talking absolute nonsense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, YouUnastanFren said: His old contract would've still had multiple years left even if he didn't sign a new one iirc. My only point is that his new contract appears to have made it possible for him to leave this summer, or at least removed the option of NSWE to decide to keep him. For all we know though, there was a release clause in that contract as well and they had no choice either way. Yes but it would have less years on it and a smaller wage, making it easier to leave. The only reason it was easy to leave this summer is because he's so **** good that an elite team was willing to pay a staggering amount of money for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Yes but it would have less years on it and a smaller wage, making it easier to leave. The only reason it was easy to leave this summer is because he's so **** good that an elite team was willing to pay a staggering amount of money for him I'm not sure this part is true (we could have just refused offers), but it would've guaranteed that he left for an amount which is below what we got for him - albeit maybe 2 years down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: It's almost as if DJVillan is talking absolute nonsense People are allowed to have different ideas of footballing loyalty and the disconnect between how they talk about it and act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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