TRO Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 3 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: People keep referring to things that have happened in the past, Milner, Delph etc. But this isn’t the past, Aston Villa are a completely different club now. We are an ambitious, extremely well run club backed by huge wealth. The fact that NSWE bring so much more to the table than their wealth though is the significant factor here. Until the Xia fiasco we’ve never really been badly financed since the late 60s. Deadly kept us tight for money but back then we weren’t ever skint, he just never went the extra mile. Deadly lacked the massive finance that has come into the game in recent years, he had many faults but wasn’t a total idiot. I’ll skip over the Bendals. Lerner had enough wealth to make a difference. Ok the Russian and the Arabs could blow him away but shear wealth wasn’t the issue. His inherited wealth allowed him to buy an expensive toy but that was about as far as his real interest went. I wouldn’t say he didn’t care, initially anyway, and he did put his money on the table but essentially he couldn’t be bothered to go to the trouble to set up the club properly. He is on record as saying that basically every thing should be left up to MON. I think his words were along the lines, “You don’t interfere with these top guys”. Graham Taylor set up a meeting with him soon after his arrival but he he sent a minion along instead. Big mistake. His other, possibly bigger mistake was letting Steve Stride go. Stride had virtually run the club for Doug for years. What he didn’t know wasn’t worth knowing about the club. Lerner appointed various CEOs none of whom had a clue about football and once his wealth was essentially cut in half by his divorce, even his passing interest more or less disappeared altogether. His final and utterly disastrous act was to allow a charlatan like Xia to gain control. He just wanted out and didn’t care how or about the consequences. Xia was a chancer, the last type you need to meet when you’re in trouble. The club was in trouble and it was getting deeper by the day. Could any of us imagine a man like Keith Wyness working for NSWE? The plan was always do anything to get promoted back to the PL, grab the money and run. The best thing that happened to Aston Villa in this whole terrible and tragic affair was to lose the play off final against Fulham. The long term damage done to us with Xia spending PL money doesn’t bare thinking about. Even if NSWE had come in at a later date, which I doubt, we would at best be put back years and years and at worst finished completely as a viable PL club, if we still existed at all. It’s the sports business intelligence that NSWE have brought to us that gives me such confidence that Jack and other stars in the future will no longer be cherry picked from us. Any future sales will be very much on our terms. We are no longer the rabbit frozen in the headlights. We’re big, strong and clever, nobody bullies or takes Aston Villa for a ride anymore. Well said Dave....that final was a blessing in disguise, it flushed him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 6 hours ago, thunderball said: I pray this doesn’t happen. If it does we are back to uncomfortable bottom half again. Not so fast. If Jack is sold, we'll likely get around 100m. That buys us 2 or 3 really good players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, maqroll said: Not so fast. If Jack is sold, we'll likely get around 100m. That buys us 2 or 3 really good players. That's Joelinton, Haller and 20mil to spare if you buy badly. No thanks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, catanzaro said: I hope he’s watched the Totti documentary I hope he’s watched this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: Do people laugh at John Terry's medals? If Jack left, I suspect he would be going for a British record transfer and would go on to play a role of more significance than a sub keeper. I think we all know Jack would love to stay, at the same time we all know he has aspirations to achieve big things. Question is whether he thinks.he can achieve them with us. I think he can achieve big things with us. we are slowly moving out of the major surgery zone and in to the tweaking zone. many of our players, will be better this season and I think shaky will have a big say on that.....he was a fine addition. Dean is proving to be very prudent in his collection of staff.....the synergy being created is hugely encouraging, all round....top to bottom. Edited July 17, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: People keep referring to things that have happened in the past, Milner, Delph etc. But this isn’t the past, Aston Villa are a completely different club now. We are an ambitious, extremely well run club backed by huge wealth. The fact that NSWE bring so much more to the table than their wealth though is the significant factor here. Until the Xia fiasco we’ve never really been badly financed since the late 60s. Deadly kept us tight for money but back then we weren’t ever skint, he just never went the extra mile. Deadly lacked the massive finance that has come into the game in recent years, he had many faults but wasn’t a total idiot. I’ll skip over the Bendals. Lerner had enough wealth to make a difference. Ok the Russian and the Arabs could blow him away but shear wealth wasn’t the issue. His inherited wealth allowed him to buy an expensive toy but that was about as far as his real interest went. I wouldn’t say he didn’t care, initially anyway, and he did put his money on the table but essentially he couldn’t be bothered to go to the trouble to set up the club properly. He is on record as saying that basically every thing should be left up to MON. I think his words were along the lines, “You don’t interfere with these top guys”. Graham Taylor set up a meeting with him soon after his arrival but he he sent a minion along instead. Big mistake. His other, possibly bigger mistake was letting Steve Stride go. Stride had virtually run the club for Doug for years. What he didn’t know wasn’t worth knowing about the club. Lerner appointed various CEOs none of whom had a clue about football and once his wealth was essentially cut in half by his divorce, even his passing interest more or less disappeared altogether. His final and utterly disastrous act was to allow a charlatan like Xia to gain control. He just wanted out and didn’t care how or about the consequences. Xia was a chancer, the last type you need to meet when you’re in trouble. The club was in trouble and it was getting deeper by the day. Could any of us imagine a man like Keith Wyness working for NSWE? The plan was always do anything to get promoted back to the PL, grab the money and run. The best thing that happened to Aston Villa in this whole terrible and tragic affair was to lose the play off final against Fulham. The long term damage done to us with Xia spending PL money doesn’t bare thinking about. Even if NSWE had come in at a later date, which I doubt, we would at best be put back years and years and at worst finished completely as a viable PL club, if we still existed at all. It’s the sports business intelligence that NSWE have brought to us that gives me such confidence that Jack and other stars in the future will no longer be cherry picked from us. Any future sales will be very much on our terms. We are no longer the rabbit frozen in the headlights. We’re big, strong and clever, nobody bullies or takes Aston Villa for a ride anymore. Good post. One of the things I like about NSWE is that they aren't self promoters and don't make grand promises. I have no recollection of the actual transfer of ownership from Xia to them. It was done pretty discretely and with little fanfare. I like that. No more Krulaks and Wynesses hanging around to embarrass and scam us. IIRC, Steve Stride was unceremoniously cut loose after years of good service to the club. He deserves a moment in the sun. Steve Stride Day at VP or something. Edited July 17, 2021 by maqroll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: That's Joelinton, Haller and 20mil to spare if you buy badly. No thanks I suppose that's one, specific and negative way of looking at it 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, maqroll said: I suppose that's one, specific and negative way of looking at it It's my way of saying Grealish is priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said: It's my way of saying Grealish is priceless Let's hope the brass agrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez1974 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 46 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: Do people laugh at John Terry's medals? If Jack left, I suspect he would be going for a British record transfer and would go on to play a role of more significance than a sub keeper. I think we all know Jack would love to stay, at the same time we all know he has aspirations to achieve big things. Question is whether he thinks.he can achieve them with us. Actually yes, the full kit joke is still gong! But he was a huge part of that team. The comparison (albeit quite extreme) was with Stuart Taylor. Terry contributed a bit more than Taylor did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moustache of Teale Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, TRO said: many of our players, will be better this season and I think shaky will have a big say on that.....he was a fine addition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 minute ago, The Moustache of Teale said: Why did he have to make those eyes at me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: That's Joelinton, Haller and 20mil to spare if you buy badly. No thanks I remember similar comments at the time about how we could improve numerous positions in our squad when we raked in the Milner, Young and Benteke money. We all know how that worked out. Personally I would rather keep Jack and build around him, which I think and hope is also NSWE’s plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 21 minutes ago, maqroll said: Good post. One of the things I like about NSWE is that they aren't self promoters and don't make grand promises. I have no recollection of the actual transfer of ownership from Xia to them. It was done pretty discretely and with little fanfare. I like that. No more Krulaks and Wynesses hanging around to embarrass and scam us. IIRC, Steve Stride was unceremoniously cut loose after years of good service to the club. He deserves a moment in the sun. Steve Stride Day at VP or something. Steve Stride deserves recognition I agree. I doubt he’d really want much fuss though. On the theme of unsung heroes I believe an honourable mention for Vic Crowe is called for. He guided us through the dark days of the third division and got us re-established in the second division. After storming the 3rd division we finished a very respectable 14th next season before Ellis sacked him. He was also treated very badly by Ellis afterwards. All largely forgotten because of what followed next. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, NeilS said: I remember similar comments at the time about how we could improve numerous positions in our squad when we raked in the Milner, Young and Benteke money. We all know how that worked out. Personally I would rather keep Jack and build around him, which I think and hope is also NSWE’s plan. I’d agree that the plan is to build around Jack. However as I’ve said many times before there is no comparison between the Aston Villa that sold Milner, Young, Benteke etc. and Aston Villa now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Just now, DaveAV1 said: I’d agree that the plan is to build around Jack. However as I’ve said many times before there is no comparison between the Aston Villa that sold Milner, Young, Benteke etc. and Aston Villa now. Oh yeah, I agree 100% as we have way better owners now than back then. However, there is always risk in bringing new players in though, they don’t always fit or settle in so we could quickly blow that 100m if we are unlucky. I just think we need to move away from thoughts about bringing in 3x£30m players as being a sure bet to improve us. Jack is as close to a world class player as we are going to get at the moment, and while we are fitting new players into the squad and improving I wouldn’t sell until we are certain we have players to step up. We saw last season how we dropped off as soon as he started to feel that injury. The expensive players we had already assembled in the squad dropped off significantly with the results on the pitch. With four years left on his current deal we should not even entertain selling him this summer. We look to sign him up again on another 5 year deal this summer. If that can’t be agreed we still have 4 years left, and we re-evaluate the situation again next summer and try for a new deal then or then maybe reluctantly sell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Looks caned there, Jack the Lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, NeilS said: Oh yeah, I agree 100% as we have way better owners now than back then. However, there is always risk in bringing new players in though, they don’t always fit or settle in so we could quickly blow that 100m if we are unlucky. I just think we need to move away from thoughts about bringing in 3x£30m players as being a sure bet to improve us. Jack is as close to a world class player as we are going to get at the moment, and while we are fitting new players into the squad and improving I wouldn’t sell until we are certain we have players to step up. We saw last season how we dropped off as soon as he started to feel that injury. The expensive players we had already assembled in the squad dropped off significantly with the results on the pitch. With four years left on his current deal we should not even entertain selling him this summer. We look to sign him up again on another 5 year deal this summer. If that can’t be agreed we still have 4 years left, and we re-evaluate the situation again next summer and try for a new deal then or then maybe reluctantly sell. I think the aim is and always should be to improve the squad and therefore reduce the influence of any individual player. That process is already well underway through acquisitions, improvement of existing player and the development of youth but we’re still fairly early along the journey. As with any player we could lose Jack to injury at anytime and the powers that be have to consider that. Sell Jack for whatever reason and buy two or three top quality players and you reduce that risk. Of course as you’ve said there’s always a risk when you buy players. It’s a balancing act and a large chunk of luck, good or bad will always play a big part. Leaving all that aside, I believe that at this point in the project keeping Jack has great value in the overall message we’re trying to send out. The next two or three transfers in could be very telling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 16 hours ago, The Moustache of Teale said: No way has the club knowingly scored one of the biggest own goals in its history by having him all over the kit launch media this week with a move being imminent. It’s a load of bollocks, double bollocks and triple bollocks. But if they have… somewhere, Peter Enckelman will be wiping his brow and sighing a huge sigh of relief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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