Rds1983 Posted July 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2021 3 hours ago, The_Steve said: In fairness, the Delph situation is not remotely comparable, we were so mismanaged that he got a short term contract extension with the £8m release fee rather than lose him for free. Grealish has another four years to go with no such fee. This is what I've always thought odd about the Delph situation. He could have left on a free and we'd have got nothing for him. Instead, he signed an extension and we got £8m. In a weird way he actually helped us out. From that point it was well managed by the club as he was never going to sign without a release clause. All the PR stuff and the kit advertising was a monumental mistake by all parties. This isn't me defending him as I don't like him, just saying we might have had nothing for him and he'd likely have had a larger signing fee/wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Re past situations they were a bit different. Barry was in his late 20's when he decided he wanted to move after having 10 years with us. It ended up being messy as we turned down the Liverpool offer, stripped the captaincy off him, and he played for us for another year but going to City. He was professional throughout with us. Milner was the killer. He had only been with us for 2 seasons (and a previous loan spell) but that was the moment Lerner basically just gave up and MON left. Not only we sold our best player we also inherited Stephen Ireland which was a complete disaster. Young could see the direction of travel. He told the club he wouldn't sign a new contract so we sold him to United. That summer we also sold Downing and brought in Charles Nzogbia and Shay Given on a 5 year contract. Sweet Jesus. Delph was the most comical of the lot. By then we were a deeply mediocre side in annual relegation struggles with a owner who wanted to sell up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: The Premier League states the official definition is: "Subject to Rule T.7, a contract player, either by himself or by any person on his behalf, shall not either directly or indirectly make any such approach as is referred to in Rule T.5 without having obtained the prior written consent of his club." City fans believe personal terms agreed. Bollocks There is also this. The Premier League states the official definition is: "Subject to Rule T.8, a contract player, either by himself or by any person on his behalf, shall not either directly or indirectly join a souless team like Manchester City and as is referred to in Rule T.6 without having obtained an insanity diagnosis from an Aston Villa supporting doctor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez1974 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 The references to Milner, Delph, Barry etc are fair on one level. But.. None of them were fans of this club. I'm not sure they were big fans of any particular club - not like Jack is. They all went on to win things - but none of them are loved by any club in the way Jack is here. They're all wealthy - like Jack is, and he will become more wealthy at Villa, enabling him to look after his family. In reality - does he want fans in 30 years still singing his name, and have the real chance of winning things here and putting him (maybe) on a tier above even the likes of Brian Little, Paul McGrath and Sid Cowans. Or does he want maybe a few more medals (and questionable contributions) and a bit more money, and the likelihood of ending his playing days at Everton and beyond. As a Villa fan - I know what I would like to look back on when I'm 70. After all - Stuart Taylor has 2x league winners medals, and an FA Cup medal. And no one gives a shit, and would laugh if he showed you them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Pez1974 said: The references to Milner, Delph, Barry etc are fair on one level. But.. None of them were fans of this club. I'm not sure they were big fans of any particular club - not like Jack is. They all went on to win things - but none of them are loved by any club in the way Jack is here. They're all wealthy - like Jack is, and he will become more wealthy at Villa, enabling him to look after his family. In reality - does he want fans in 30 years still singing his name, and have the real chance of winning things here and putting him (maybe) on a tier above even the likes of Brian Little, Paul McGrath and Sid Cowans. Or does he want maybe a few more medals (and questionable contributions) and a bit more money, and the likelihood of ending his playing days at Everton and beyond. As a Villa fan - I know what I would like to look back on when I'm 70. After all - Stuart Taylor has 2x league winners medals, and an FA Cup medal. And no one gives a shit, and would laugh if he showed you them. Exactly. Looking back on your career, would you rather be Francesco Totti or James Milner? Absolutely no offence to Milner here, I specifically used a popular, widely successful player as a comparison. That sort of complete and total adoration by your home club's fans is available to so few players and once you move, it's hard to get back. Jack will have a statue outside Villa Park one day if he stays. If he leaves, he's more likely to win the League and the Champions League. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Joining “already established success” isnt ambitious either when you think about it. Man City are dominating this country with ease and will probably continue to with or without Jack. Jumping onto an already winning train is an easy option. I can see why Kane wants to given his age. Cant see it myself but this is interesting on role model Kane: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Yeah in the event of any sales I wouldn't want a player plus money. Invariably the swapped player never really wants to come 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: This is what I've always thought odd about the Delph situation. He could have left on a free and we'd have got nothing for him. Instead, he signed an extension and we got £8m. In a weird way he actually helped us out. From that point it was well managed by the club as he was never going to sign without a release clause. All the PR stuff and the kit advertising was a monumental mistake by all parties. This isn't me defending him as I don't like him, just saying we might have had nothing for him and he'd likely have had a larger signing fee/wage. I agree with that. We got £8m instead of nothing. The management of his contract up to then is an entirely different matter. I think the problem we all had with Delph was his big loyal, honourable man speech he made on signing the contract. If his intention was always to leave why would he make such a declaration? We were a very badly run club at the time on a downward spiral. It was hard, once you take the emotion away, to blame any player for wanting to move at that time. Delph’s additional interaction with Stirling and the toy snakes video on a plane only confirmed that he always was a complete Representative for Wellingborough. The comparison to how James Milner conducted himself is very stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: Yeah in the event of any sales I wouldn't want a player plus money. Invariably the swapped player never really wants to come Stephen Ireland taught us a lesson on that score - and I thought he’d be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted July 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I agree with that. We got £8m instead of nothing. The management of his contract up to then is an entirely different matter. I think the problem we all had with Delph was his big loyal, honourable man speech he made on signing the contract. If his intention was always to leave why would he make such a declaration? We were a very badly run club at the time on a downward spiral. It was hard, once you take the emotion away, to blame any player for wanting to move at that time. Delph’s additional interaction with Stirling and the toy snakes video on a plane only confirmed that he always was a complete Representative for Wellingborough. The comparison to how James Milner conducted himself is very stark. Agree with all that. Shouldn't have let his contract run down like it did. As I said the marketing /PR bit was awful looking back. Milner seems a lot nicer bloke and has had a better career. I'd also be happy for him to come back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, Pez1974 said: The references to Milner, Delph, Barry etc are fair on one level. But.. None of them were fans of this club. I'm not sure they were big fans of any particular club - not like Jack is. They all went on to win things - but none of them are loved by any club in the way Jack is here. They're all wealthy - like Jack is, and he will become more wealthy at Villa, enabling him to look after his family. In reality - does he want fans in 30 years still singing his name, and have the real chance of winning things here and putting him (maybe) on a tier above even the likes of Brian Little, Paul McGrath and Sid Cowans. Or does he want maybe a few more medals (and questionable contributions) and a bit more money, and the likelihood of ending his playing days at Everton and beyond. As a Villa fan - I know what I would like to look back on when I'm 70. After all - Stuart Taylor has 2x league winners medals, and an FA Cup medal. And no one gives a shit, and would laugh if he showed you them. Do people laugh at John Terry's medals? If Jack left, I suspect he would be going for a British record transfer and would go on to play a role of more significance than a sub keeper. I think we all know Jack would love to stay, at the same time we all know he has aspirations to achieve big things. Question is whether he thinks.he can achieve them with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: Exactly. Looking back on your career, would you rather be Francesco Totti or James Milner? Absolutely no offence to Milner here, I specifically used a popular, widely successful player as a comparison. That sort of complete and total adoration by your home club's fans is available to so few players and once you move, it's hard to get back. Jack will have a statue outside Villa Park one day if he stays. If he leaves, he's more likely to win the League and the Champions League. Yeah I’ve been thinking of this recently and more so with the Totti documentary and series that have been released… It’s rare to become such a symbol and genuine legend, especially nowadays, it’s almost a unique thing. To earn the admiration, adoration and respect of so many and be so closely linked to a club… it’s quite historic and won’t be forgotten. What a story and career to look back on… It holds massive appeal and Jack needs to reflect on that… What a shame for any player to taint or destroy that… players like Totti, Maldini, Gerrard (came close didn’t he?) wouldn’t have retained or achieved that had they moved away… I don’t consider leaving toward the end of your career or winding down an issue, such as joining an MLS or lower league team etc. But leaving in your prime or best years…that’s a shame… Jack can and has a lot to achieve with us… wouldn’t really make sense for him to leave at this point, at least imo, when we are on the verge of genuinely achieving great things… starting with getting into Europe… Edited July 17, 2021 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: Do people laugh at John Terry's medals? If Jack left, I suspect he would be going for a British record transfer and would go on to play a role of more significance than a sub keeper. I think we all know Jack would love to stay, at the same time we all know he has aspirations to achieve big things. Question is whether he thinks.he can achieve them with us. I think this is a big season for us. We need to get minimum top 8 or a cup win. Will we do that? If the players improve the same amount this season as last and with the new recruits then we have a chance. We need more players though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Joining “already established success” isnt ambitious either when you think about it. Man City are dominating this country with ease and will probably continue to with or without Jack. Jumping onto an already winning train is an easy option. I can see why Kane wants to given his age. Cant see it myself but this is interesting on role model Kane: This is probably crazy talk but I wonder how much Kane (or Jack) would enjoy Pep’s more regimented system? Yes they’ll win a domestic trophy or two by playing a very specific role, but as players who like getting about the pitch and being involved their actual enjoyment of the game might drop. Even with that, City have no guarantee of winning the UCL anyway. Jack’s best shot at European silverware might be the UEFA Cup with us and I’d hope that’s the club’s ‘inshallah’ target for the ‘22-23 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 I personally think what matters is the direction of travel. If we start to plateau now, and can’t break into the top 4, then what’s on offer for Jack isn’t Totti status - it’s more like Matt le Tissier or even Gabby Agbonlahor. If we keep improving year on year, then he has that opportunity to get Totti / Gerrard status and be a club legend with a bit of silverware to his name (and loads of £££), and I think that will be attractive to him. For that reason, I think he’s staying, because the project is working and he believes in the project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted July 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Yeah I’ve been thinking of this recently and more so with the Totti documentary and series that have been released… It’s rare to become such a symbol and genuine legend, especially nowadays, it’s almost a unique thing. To earn the admiration, adoration and respect of so many and be so closely linked to a club… it’s quite historic and won’t be forgotten. What a story and career to look back on… It holds massive appeal and Jack needs to reflect on that… I hope he’s watched the Totti documentary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 minute ago, catanzaro said: I hope he’s watched the Totti documentary Me too… The series wasn’t bad either, great final episode… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recircle Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: Do people laugh at John Terry's medals? A person laughing at anyone's medals tells you more about the person laughing than the person with the medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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