dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Adam2003 said: And you (like me) are just a guy posting on a forum so it’s fine for either of us to get the wrong end of the stick. What irritates me is Keane is supposed to be a professional and should therefore have the pride to not peddle nonsense. Anyway - roll on the new season and Jack in claret and blue! Even if we didn't know what we know, how would Keane know that a senior player didn't *try* and take the ball but Saka told them to get to **** anyway? He is infantilising Saka, no way would he have said it about Foden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, TRO said: well, unless like me, Keane was unaware of the format, of Southgate pre planning the order himself. If he was aware, then his comments were poor. The point is exactly that if he WASN’T aware of anything specific he shouldn’t just chat nonsense about professionals. But then without nonsense Keane has nothing to say. Will leave it there as we obviously have different views on him but he’s a toxic waste of oxygen and has been since he was bombed out of United. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 So what do we think about Jack now? Is this going to make him question if he has to leave to win trophies? Or will he stay. Collymore deleted a tweet that suggested fairly strongly that he was going to sign and was with Jack again tonight after the game. Dean Smith was there too. PLeeeeeease sign a new contract! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 35 minutes ago, birdman said: Southgate said the penalty takers already decided in training. Like there was a plan in place. Keane talks about putting hands up to take one but that might not be how it works. The point Keane is trying to make is you can't artificially manufacture penalty takers in training, sometimes its about the moment and who is prepared to step up in that moment. It's not about anyone being right or wrong, the manager, pundit, fan etc... Sport its about moments and who wants to be in the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, S-Platt said: No problem with Jack not being in the 1st 5 the only pen I remember him taking was saved at Sheff Utd away. He has taken 2. The first was a goal in the most important moment of his career. The 2nd was the underside of the bar. He's a good pen taker. When with the under 21s for England he was one of two players who scored every penalty in training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, QldVilla said: The point Keane is trying to make is you can't artificially manufacture penalty takers in training, sometimes its about the moment and who is prepared to step up in that moment. Absolutely nobody is disagreeing with that, but it’s very different from blaming the players for not rebelling against the manager and taking a penalty away from your team mate because you don’t trust him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: So what do we think about Jack now? Is this going to make him question if he has to leave to win trophies? Or will he stay. Collymore deleted a tweet that suggested fairly strongly that he was going to sign and was with Jack again tonight after the game. Dean Smith was there too. PLeeeeeease sign a new contract! I think the tournament might be a wake up call for Jack, he might win trophies elsewhere but at Villa he will play every game and get the ball 80 percent of the time 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, QldVilla said: The point Keane is trying to make is you can't artificially manufacture penalty takers in training, sometimes its about the moment and who is prepared to step up in that moment. It's not about anyone being right or wrong, the manager, pundit, fan etc... Sport its about moments and who wants to be in the moment. Keane can make a point without naming names as he doesnt know the situation. For what it's worth apparently Jack wanted to take a pen (first five) but was denied by Southgate. He was alloctated another number according to the twitter reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Tomaszk said: Not hard to get the available players to win two of the next three big tournaments. It's not 1996. They don't all throw their arms up and say pick me. This order was drawn up probably weeks before. Having said that, Saka on #5 is just so clearly wrong. Not fair to him or the team. Sterling, Grealish, Pickford and stones should all be ahead of him. Phillips as well. Dude backs himself constantly. You could see Saka was going to miss before he took the pen. Awful just awful from safegate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Absolutely nobody is disagreeing with that, but it’s very different from blaming the players for not rebelling against the manager and taking a penalty away from your team mate because you don’t trust him. Isn't that what Hendo did in one of the warm up matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 I seem to have a memory of Bobby Robson talking about looking the players in the eye and asking them if they were ready. He felt Gascoigne wasn't capable in 1990 which is why he was much further down the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Absolutely nobody is disagreeing with that, but it’s very different from blaming the players for not rebelling against the manager and taking a penalty away from your team mate because you don’t trust him. Hence the comment about it not about anyone being right or wrong. Keane will always make controversial comments in the heat of the moment and won't apologize for it, he's made career out of it in the media, I'm surprised people are surprised. In Keane's day the leaders in the team would have told Southgate putting a 19 yr old up isn't the right decision, today their afraid they'll upset someone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, birdman said: Keane can make a point without naming names as he doesnt know the situation. For what it's worth apparently Jack wanted to take a pen (first five) but was denied by Southgate. He was alloctated another number according to the twitter reports. Have you ever seen Keane not name names?? Your right Keane doesn't know the situation, but he has more than enough experience to know that a 19 yr old in his first tournament probably wasn't the right time to blood him and some of the leaders in the team probably should have protected him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted July 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2021 Keane is a **** word removed. How can you call Grealish, with 11 caps, coming off the bench, and barely any minutes in the Euros... a "senior pro"? The lad has literally been doing everything he can to deliver for England, but he clearly doesn't have the manager's backing. How on earth is he going to step forward and tell the gaffer what to do in the shootout in a major final!? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, QldVilla said: Hence the comment about it not about anyone being right or wrong. Keane will always make controversial comments in the heat of the moment and won't apologize for it, he's made career out of it in the media, I'm surprised people are surprised. In Keane's day the leaders in the team would have told Southgate putting a 19 yr old up isn't the right decision, today their afraid they'll upset someone. In Keane's day, he told Mick McCarthy to stick it up his bollocks and then played no further part in a World Cup in which Ireland got knocked out in the last 16. I'm not sure he's bringing much to the table here. Did he ever take a penalty for Ireland? Sad to see Villa fans defending these comments. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Jack needs to take any anger out by signing a new deal. Like sign it really hard then stick the pen in someones back. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QldVilla Posted July 12, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, KentVillan said: In Keane's day, he told Mick McCarthy to stick it up his bollocks and then played no further part in a World Cup in which Ireland got knocked out in the last 16. I'm not sure he's bringing much to the table here. Did he ever take a penalty for Ireland? Sad to see Villa fans defending these comments. Yeah, ok champ, take an isolated incident to prove a point. Maybe re-read the original post, no one is being blamed and certainly not defending his comments. The point which was being made is you can't artificially manufacture penalty takers, its about stepping up in the moment. Not everything in sport is about science and planning, sometimes it takes heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) Grealish isn't one to shy away from the spotlight, 100% he wants to take a pen Edited July 12, 2021 by AVFCforever1991 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recircle Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TRO said: I think Keane was right to point out that senior Pro's allowed a 19 year old to step up.....They should have stepped up, before him. also, players who are highly rated, should be able to take penalties, with confidence. Roy Keane is a controversial character, but he does make some good points at times. I'm assuming the takers of the first five had been selected before the game began (hence the subs at the end). If Gareth Methodgate's got his pre-agreed, typed up in triplicate list, you can't just disregard it and barge in front (Jack couldn't anyway; he's not established enough yet in the England set-up to do that, and apparently has to walk on eggshells around Southgate). Keane comes out with some good stuff as a pundit, but when big games become tense he too often reverts to hackneyed real-men-step-up-and-take-control Old West gunfight-type stuff (him abandoning the Republic of Ireland squad in the 2002 World Cup over a spat with Mick McCarthy tends to work to undermine his authority here - especially since ROI had to face a penalty shoot-out in that tournament - against Spain in the round of 16 - and so Roy was AWOL when the key opportunity came there for him to lead by example and take one of the early penalties—or any of them!) Edited July 12, 2021 by deck missing word 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, QldVilla said: Yeah, ok champ, take an isolated incident to prove a point. Maybe re-read the original post, no one is being blamed and certainly not defending his comments. The point which was being made is you can't artificially manufacture penalty takers, its about stepping up in the moment. Not everything in sport is about science and planning, sometimes it takes heart. Grealish didn't decide the order of penalty takers ffs. Why is his "heart" being criticised when it wasn't the problem? For all we know, Grealish wanted to take the first pen. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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