DCJonah Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: Its so simple if you think logically England like to play balls into the channels for sterling and saka to run in behind . Jack and Samcho like to get the ball and beat a man . This isnt Southgate being a tit with Jack. This is pure tactics . When things are tight i.e. these tactics havent worked the first thing Southgate does is bring Jack on and apply pressure to create something in the attacking 3rd. As soon as we scored again on Wednesday that tactic in Southgates head is not needed. 1 goal conceded in 6 games with said tactics says to him theres a huge probability we will hold onto the lead. Disclaimer that i think it is too negative and we could easily score one or two more with Jack on the pitch but i guess that is why i am a lowly photocopier salesman and Southgate is on the cusp of creating history. This. Regardless of what you think of the tactics, they're working. A semi and a final in the last two major international tournaments. At the moment Southgate is doing everything asked of him. Yes it's negative at times, yes it's boring to watch at times but for me this isn't a major issue. This isn't club football where you watch your team playing week in week out. This is a tournament, where you do what's needed to win over the course of 7 games. Edited July 10, 2021 by DCJonah 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, markc said: Couldn't agree with this anymore. I'm delighted we're in the final and it's hard to argue against Southgate, its just I think we could be so much more. Watching the Venables documentary on sky at the moment, the game against the Dutch with a starting eleven of: Seaman; Pearce, Adams, Southgate, G. Neville; McManaman, Gascoigne, Ince, Anderton; Shearer, Sheringham. We could have an equivalent of that flair in the midfield/forward line now. Look where it didn't get us... I don't like the approach Southgate is taking but it is effective, and history seems to have proven that a defensive mindset is more likely to win you a tournament than an offensive one. Grealish deserves more game time, we'd look a better outfit for it, and I'm sure we'd still have got to where we are with him in the side. But it's hypothetical. Let's see how we cope with a well drilled Italy. I'm certain we'll need Jack and he'll be the one given the task of saving us. Edited July 10, 2021 by MrBlack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 If Jack had played every game and we'd been knocked out in the quarter finals, would everyone be happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 44 minutes ago, DCJonah said: It really did. There were quite a few posts from people claiming Southgate did it intentionally or that it was a personal thing against Jack Grealish. I think Southgate set out incorrectly in the way he resisted calling up Jack in the first place, constantly moving the goal posts. He also set the wrong tone when commenting something along the lines, Villa fans won’t like me not picking Jack, they’ve never forgiven me for leaving Villa. That was the wrong thing to say for anyone in his senior position, it is his fault that some people believe, rightly or wrongly that he has a personal issue with Jack. I personally don’t think he does and would imagine he privately regrets what he said. I believe he recognises that Jack is a unique talent, even if he’s been slow to come to the party. The team needs Jack as a spark when they’ve run out of ideas and against such a well organised defence as Italy’s that will almost certainly be the case on Sunday. There’s a good argument for Jack to start, before the game settles down into a pattern, as it did against Scotland. However I don’t think Southgate trusts Jack to follow the exact game plan and so his natural caution will leave him on the bench until absolutely needed. In Southgate’s mind Jack is an, “in emergency smash glass”, player. His club manager see’s Jack as an essential cog in settling the attacking agenda. Neither are likely to change anytime soon. However his club manager recognised his own defensive weaknesses and adapted to make us one of the best defences in the PL last season, while still being a team capable of sticking 7 against Liverpool. Compare and contrast. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: If Jack had played every game and we'd been knocked out in the quarter finals, would everyone be happy? Probably. A few Villa fans dont care about the England national team which is fine except when god forbid Jack is subbed, then they foam at the mouth. They seem to care a great deal about something they don't care about then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, R.Bear said: Probably. A few Villa fans dont care about the England national team which is fine except when god forbid Jack is subbed, then they foam at the mouth. They seem to care a great deal about something they don't care about then. 8 minutes ago, DCJonah said: If Jack had played every game and we'd been knocked out in the quarter finals, would everyone be happy? Yawn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: Its so simple if you think logically England like to play balls into the channels for sterling and saka to run in behind . Jack and Samcho like to get the ball and beat a man . This isnt Southgate being a tit with Jack. This is pure tactics . When things are tight i.e. these tactics havent worked the first thing Southgate does is bring Jack on and apply pressure to create something in the attacking 3rd. As soon as we scored again on Wednesday that tactic in Southgates head is not needed. 1 goal conceded in 6 games with said tactics says to him theres a huge probability we will hold onto the lead. Disclaimer that i think it is too negative and we could easily score one or two more with Jack on the pitch but i guess that is why i am a lowly photocopier salesman and Southgate is on the cusp of creating history. Interesting. Do you keep the Oki 853 MFD in stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I think Southgate set out incorrectly in the way he resisted calling up Jack in the first place, constantly moving the goal posts. He also set the wrong tone when commenting something along the lines, Villa fans won’t like me not picking Jack, they’ve never forgiven me for leaving Villa. That was the wrong thing to say for anyone in his senior position, it is his fault that some people believe, rightly or wrongly that he has a personal issue with Jack. I personally don’t think he does and would imagine he privately regrets what he said. I believe he recognises that Jack is a unique talent, even if he’s been slow to come to the party. The team needs Jack as a spark when they’ve run out of ideas and against such a well organised defence as Italy’s that will almost certainly be the case on Sunday. There’s a good argument for Jack to start, before the game settles down into a pattern, as it did against Scotland. However I don’t think Southgate trusts Jack to follow the exact game plan and so his natural caution will leave him on the bench until absolutely needed. In Southgate’s mind Jack is an, “in emergency smash glass”, player. His club manager see’s Jack as an essential cog in settling the attacking agenda. Neither are likely to change anytime soon. However his club manager recognised his own defensive weaknesses and adapted to make us one of the best defences in the PL last season, while still being a team capable of sticking 7 against Liverpool. Compare and contrast. I think it was the Belgium game that changed things. I believe Southgate really didn't rate Jack and ultimately Jack only got his original call up because of injuries to others. But that Belgium performance changed things. Southgate spoke about him differently after that game. I also think Jack's fitness and the fact we played Germany impacted how Jack was used. Croatia and Scotland were poor games. Jack got the start against the Czech, did well and I think was subbed off with one eye on looking after him due to his fitness. I think had we played a different team in the next round Jack may well have started, but he wanted to match Germany with 3 at the back and in that formation, I can see why he wants runners out wide. Whatever happens, Jack has played a key role. He helped us win the group, he changed the game against Germany and he helped us take the lead against the Danes. He's played his part. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordVillan Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: You seem to have ignored the posts where people genuinely believe Southgate is going out of his way to ruin Jack. I don't think many people have an issue with the idea that Jack should have played more. No, I’d say ppl have been pointing out how they see Jack Grealish being treated differently, and this can be partly backed up with fact. The easiest example of this being Southgates STATEMENT to media, when questioned on Grealish’s continued absence from the England squad, citing that he wasn’t being selected due to lack of being proven in the Premier League (he had previously said he couldn’t select players playing in the championship). He then selected the championship player Kalvin Phillips for the England squad. So things like that tend to sit on ppls minds, and understandably so. It’s fair for ppl to question certain decisions in the here and now in the absence of clarification of historic actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Its not about Jack not being able.to follow a plan and not being able to execute the tactics. It is all about other players in the squad being able to execute the tactics better as they have different skill sets. Bar Sancho and Foden none of them can dribble like Jack, but none of these 3 can press like others in the squad can. Pressing off the ball and asserting pressure with the ball are 2 very different things . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, OxfordVillan said: No, I’d say ppl have been pointing out how they see Jack Grealish being treated differently, and this can be partly backed up with fact. The easiest example of this being Southgates STATEMENT to media, when questioned on Grealish’s continued absence from the England squad, citing that he wasn’t being selected due to lack of being proven in the Premier League (he had previously said he couldn’t select players playing in the championship). He then selected the championship player Kalvin Phillips for the England squad. So things like that tend to sit on ppls minds, and understandably so. It’s fair for ppl to question certain decisions in the here and now in the absence of clarification of historic actions. You're talking about something that happened over a year ago when Southgate probably didn't rate Jack. He's allowed to change his mind and clearly has since calling him up to the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, darrenm said: Yawn It was a genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Jack really should have played against the Scots, he would have forced them into so many fouls. I would have thought with him playing England would have had much more possession, chances, free-kicks and one of their players would have been sent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: Its so simple if you think logically England like to play balls into the channels for sterling and saka to run in behind . Jack and Samcho like to get the ball and beat a man . This isnt Southgate being a tit with Jack. This is pure tactics . When things are tight i.e. these tactics havent worked the first thing Southgate does is bring Jack on and apply pressure to create something in the attacking 3rd. As soon as we scored again on Wednesday that tactic in Southgates head is not needed. 1 goal conceded in 6 games with said tactics says to him theres a huge probability we will hold onto the lead. Disclaimer that i think it is too negative and we could easily score one or two more with Jack on the pitch but i guess that is why i am a lowly photocopier salesman and Southgate is on the cusp of creating history. Great post 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: You seem to have ignored the posts where people genuinely believe Southgate is going out of his way to ruin Jack. I don't think many people have an issue with the idea that Jack should have played more. This. Its the ridiculous, wild conspiracy theories that Gareth is deliberately humiliating Jack and has a massive issue with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: It was a genuine question. All you 2 do is moan about others not being enough of an England fan. Please change the record. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, darrenm said: All you 2 do is moan about others not being enough of an England fan. Please change the record. Well you've confused me with someone else because I've openly admitted on here that I'm not that patriotic about the England team. I've celebrated villa drawing games more than I did last Wednesday. So that's bullshit I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I'm fed up of hearing about Southgate and Grealish and his situation with England, will be glad when the whole thing is over, I dread international breaks for the same reason. Hopefully soon enough the talk of Grealish centres around a new contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, useless said: I'm fed up of hearing about Southgate and Grealish and his situation with England, will be glad when the whole thing is over, I dread international breaks for the same reason. Hopefully soon enough the talk of Grealish centres around a new contract. Agreed. However, I hate the transfer windows for the same reason. Will he/won’t he leave? The sooner the season is underway, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, DCJonah said: If Jack had played every game and we'd been knocked out in the quarter finals, would everyone be happy? That's what you call, game, set and match. Unless you're not an England fan, that is. Edited July 10, 2021 by sheepyvillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts