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Jack Grealish


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2 hours ago, maqroll said:

It's an interesting conundrum. He is clearly adept at getting his teams to advance deep into tournaments. So by that measure, he is doing quite the opposite of holding the team back. 

Stylistically however, yes, the argument can be made that he's handcuffed the most creative group of players England have ever had. 

But ultimately what is more important, results, or artfulness? 

It's a bit of fear to roll the dice a little and remove one holding midfielder or defender in place of an attacker. Fear of the past perhaps! But if we can actually bring football home on Sunday it might give Southgate confidence to play a little less safe in future and embrace the talent that we have. But honestly, if we can win on Sunday the history books won't care about style or tactics or how we got to the final, it will be a simple one liner...

Euro 2020 Winners:...... 

I won't write it though!! 

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42 minutes ago, birdman said:

It's a bit of fear to roll the dice a little and remove one holding midfielder or defender in place of an attacker. Fear of the past perhaps! But if we can actually bring football home on Sunday it might give Southgate confidence to play a little less safe in future and embrace the talent that we have. But honestly, if we can win on Sunday the history books won't care about style or tactics or how we got to the final, it will be a simple one liner...

Euro 2020 Winners:...... 

I won't write it though!! 

I agree, winning on Sunday would free Southgate and the players which would be hell for opponents in WC qualifying. 

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4 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

There's no doubt Southgate is doing a job, but I still believe he is holding the team back. Grealish should be a starter no doubt, start on the front foot. Gareth is no genius, despite what the media say, his tactics are basic, defending being the name of the game. The squad is full of flair, Bellingham, Sancho, Grealish etc. I believe we could rip Italy apart, especially in the second half when their old fellas are getting tired, but Southgate is just to safe, an with the difficult sides this'll always lead us to extra time and maybe penalties, which is what we need to avoid.

Couldn't agree with this anymore. 

I'm delighted we're in the final and it's hard to argue against Southgate, its just I think we could be so much more. 

Watching the Venables documentary on sky at the moment,  the game against the Dutch with a starting eleven of:

Seaman; Pearce, Adams, Southgate, G. Neville; McManaman, Gascoigne, Ince, Anderton; Shearer, Sheringham.

 We could have an equivalent of that flair in the midfield/forward line now.

 

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6 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

No.

Over the course of weeks and months, good performances are those which win and keep on winning. The manner in which they do this is irrelevant. I understand that occasionally bad performances will still win football matches, because I'm not an idiot. However, it is not a repeatable skill. 

Plenty of managers have achieved this by playing supposedly 'dull' football. Particularly at international level. 

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To see it from another angle entirely.... If England do win, will this doom us to negative stuff for the next 55 years? as it would kind of create the mold for "how to win a tornament". Considering it took so long to win one (if we do actually win of course) surely they will then be petrified to move away from what would then be a "Proven formula"....This is my biggest fear with it all.

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6 hours ago, maqroll said:

It's an interesting conundrum. He is clearly adept at getting his teams to advance deep into tournaments. So by that measure, he is doing quite the opposite of holding the team back. 

Stylistically however, yes, the argument can be made that he's handcuffed the most creative group of players England have ever had. 

But ultimately what is more important, results, or artfulness? 

It’s really not an either/or.

The best sides combine both.

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8 hours ago, Thug said:

Of course I want England to win, whether Jack plays or not.

Of course I will have huge respect for Southgate if he pulls off what many before him couldn’t manage.  Even more respect than I have already accumulated for him for even reaching the final.

Jack and Tyrone are in touching distance of winning a medal whilst they’re playing for Villa, which hopefully would be enough to let them believe that they don’t need to move to win something.  I’m absolutely buzzing off the feel good factor surrounding England right now.  
 

However, if someone comes to the Jack Grealish thread on VillaTalk and vents their frustration about him not being picked because the England manager (in their opinion) is setting up the team far too defensively - I don’t think it’s right to start calling them part of a ‘cult’ that wants to ‘rim’ Grealish, and be accused of being stupid.

The argument has drifted and drifted with people getting increasingly offensive and defensive and of course no one is willing to back down.

But essentially this is the argument under all the layers of filler:

“If Southgate wasn’t so defensive, Jack would probably have had a starring role, and we would still be in the final having been more entertaining to watch.”  Or you may believe that without the defensive tactics we may not be in the final at all.

Essentially that is IT. There’s no need to be horrible to one another over any of it - No one wants to ‘rim’ Jack, and I certainly hope that no one wants to ‘rim’ Southgate.

 

You seem to have ignored the posts where people genuinely believe Southgate is going out of his way to ruin Jack. 

I don't think many people have an issue with the idea that Jack should have played more. 

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1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

You seem to have ignored the posts where people genuinely believe Southgate is going out of his way to ruin Jack. 

I don't think many people have an issue with the idea that Jack should have played more. 

I’m sure there are people who have said things like this but you can’t use the views of a handful of people to condemn anyone who doesn’t show absolute and unqualified allegiance to the cause. The vast majority of people in here are Villa fans who would love to see Jack play a staring role but the vast majority of them also 100% want England to win. People are allowed to express their views what ever they may be without being called an idiot or unpatriotic. This isn’t Stalin’s Russia. 

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28 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

people genuinely believe Southgate is going out of his way to ruin Jack

Didn't happen. Please show anyone saying this without qualification.

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I'd love England to win whether Jack plays or not.

Despite that I still believe Southgate is being a tit with Jack. Simply the last game southgate could of fetched another player off instead of Jack, someone more tired and with less energy than Jack which is most of the team to be fair. 

If England go onto win which I hope they do because let's face it they are Italy, turn coats of the wars n so on.

I think if Southgate plays Jack against Italy, it will be for a publicity stunt. Southgate has hardly shown any faith in Jack, hasn't shown he really wants him to play. In fact every time the press and us fans start bitching about Southgates problem with Jack, that is when Jack seems to be played.

It's not just the way things have gone in England matches and it's nothing to do with the tough calls Southgate has had to make as England manager, he really does have it in for Jack or has no confidence in him whatsoever. Now the question is why doesn't he have the confidence in him? It's really all down to Jack being a different breed of player that our England managers have problems with playing. The England managers of the past have had these same exact problems with some of our different style players because they play in a way that's simply different to what England managers are looking for. Sure Southgate may go onto Win the Euros but does that mean he's not playing an outdated style, no it doesn't. Southgate has had fair bit of luck along the way and his style of play should of failed but with some penalty luck he's pulled of a slimey win or two. I also think English players now are a more quality than in previous competitions which as aided Southgate to slip on through to the final. Like I said Southgate has had a fair bit of luck and add to that real good England team full of very good English players when moulded together.

I just believe Southgate has had an easy ride to be fair through this comp with some lucky escapes.

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’m sure there are people who have said things like this but you can’t use the views of a handful of people to condemn anyone who doesn’t show absolute and unqualified allegiance to the cause. The vast majority of people in here are Villa fans who would love to see Jack play a staring role but the vast majority of them also 100% want England to win. People are allowed to express their views what ever they may be without being called an idiot or unpatriotic. This isn’t Stalin’s Russia. 

I agree. 

I do find it odd that we can be in a final and people who support the team be annoyed and angry about it because of one player, but people can share that opinion if they want. 

 

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12 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Didn't happen. Please show anyone saying this without qualification.

It really did. There were quite a few posts from people claiming Southgate did it intentionally or that it was a personal thing against Jack Grealish.

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