The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[est1874]

12 minutes ago, blandy said:

For some reason, some people are so desperate to believe that Gareth Southgate is just a bitter clint with a chip on his shoulder that they're willing to ignore all evidence to the contrary.

what is that evidence? Well, obviously he’s selected him for the squad. And he’s spent ages watching Jack play, talking to him in the stands when he was injured. He started him in the two friendlies and was about to bring him on just when Sterling scored. Jack himself has praised how GS has been towards him and has focused him on what he needs to do.

He was included when Sancho was left out on Sunday. 

This thread is completely mental. Yes absolutely I’d have a fully fit Jack in the starting 11, but starting the tournament with Sterling and Kane who have been scoring for fun in recent England games and who are England’s 2 most capped squad members was possibly cautious, possibly sound management. Playing Sterling will have given him a big confidence boost, particularly as he then scored the winner. Foden on the right was a decent choice. He’s a fabulous player.

”I think he should have played Jack” is a fine and fair view.

”I think GS is bitter, has an agenda, hates Jack and hates Villa” is paranoid delusional.

That's all well and good but you've literally ignored all the other evidence that there is some sort of issue or personality clash there.

And I think it's plainly obvious Gareth doesn't like Villa. He's on record talking about how desperate he was to leave us behind and how glad he was to join massive Middlesbrough at our expense.

You're literally ignoring what we do know about the man in favour of the fact that he spoke to him in the stands once and has picked him for the squad. As I said, there would have been uproar if he hadn't. Now he has the convenient factor of Jack's shins as an excuse to not play him. Simples.

[brummybloke]

Having Jack as an impact sub against tired teams doesn't make much sense to me.

Having him on from the start and a couple players getting carded so their game changes to manage the carded players sounds a more realistic way to use him.

Then if his game isn't going well bring on a speedster when the defence is tired.

He is too skilful and technical to be an impact sub which are normally your powerful or fast players.

Just play him for 65 minutes, let him do his shnizzle and take him off for the next game.

 

 

[blandy]

52 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

OK, you asked:

- Anyone who has an understanding of the game could see that Jack is an unbelievable player, even at Championship level. He should have been called up while in The Championship.

- Southgate claims that Jack has to play in the PL before he can be considered, despite going on to contradict this and call up Kalvin Phillips with no PL experience (even called up before Jack!)

- Jack showed top quality form for us in the PL and it still took an age for him to be selected.

- The only reason he was eventually selected is because everyone noticed how special he is and started shouting it. Southgate doesn't want his grudge against Jack to become public, because he's aware of how petty it would look, so he gets a very long overdue callup.

- Then there is Southgate's extremely weird answers to questions about Grealish in recent years. Even at one point hinting that Callum Hudson-Odoi (yes, Callum Hudson-Odoi!) was ahead of him in the pecking order, and even came across that all he cared about was Jack's number of goals. I mean you must be the dumbest man alive to not see what Jack offers other than goals.

- We get to the Euros. Jack has been MOTM what, 4 times in his 6/7 caps? He's better than all of our other wide/playmaker options yet Southgate picks everyone ahead of him.

I think Southgate is starting to be convinced by Jack, and maybe by a change in his personality/growing up. But to say there's been no grudge against him I think is just ignoring plain facts.

Was this the post @Tom13?

if it is, then:

Jack is an unbelievable talent. Southgate has said as much. I agree that he could have easily been picked in the Championship, but I think GS was worried about his maturity, with good reason. Jack isn’t an angel sometimes and he’d misbehaved for the U-21s. I don’t think GS wanted to publicly say his behaviour was a concern because that does no one any good. Hence the PL thing. Yes it looked silly when he then picked Phillips, but credit for the manager there who took the stick, rather than the debit that would have arisen on Jack from “he needs to grow up” that would have been all over the press.

On more recent comments about Callum HA etc. the flip side is that there are two positives here. Firstly someone as confident as Jack doesn’t need his tyres pumped, he needs keeping level headed and secondly it’s a boost for Callum HA to hear from the England manager that he hasn’t been forgotten about. Good man management.

The other points I think I’ve already covered

[birdman]

7 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

So you genuinely think there's no chance whatsoever there could be an issue between them since the U21 days?

I genuinely think there is currently no issue between Southgate and Grealish. Its fair to say Gareth took some convincing and seemed to have a set of qualifying conditions for Jack that he didn't apply to others players. L I think that is a fact. But now I believe we're past all that and from what Jack has said himself, they get on fine. If there is an alternative truth then perhaps we'll read the memoirs years from now! 

[est1874]

13 minutes ago, blandy said:

Was this the post @Tom13?

if it is, then:

Jack is an unbelievable talent. Southgate has said as much. I agree that he could have easily been picked in the Championship, but I think GS was worried about his maturity, with good reason. Jack isn’t an angel sometimes and he’d misbehaved for the U-21s. I don’t think GS wanted to publicly say his behaviour was a concern because that does no one any good. Hence the PL thing. Yes it looked silly when he then picked Phillips, but credit for the manager there who took the stick, rather than the debit that would have arisen on Jack from “he needs to grow up” that would have been all over the press.

On more recent comments about Callum HA etc. the flip side is that there are two positives here. Firstly someone as confident as Jack doesn’t need his tyres pumped, he needs keeping level headed and secondly it’s a boost for Callum HA to hear from the England manager that he hasn’t been forgotten about. Good man management.

The other points I think I’ve already covered

Worried about his maturity?

He started Phil Foden against Croatia at the weekend. Phil Foden who as recently as this season was suspended from the England squad for breaking protocol, while on the job.

Jack's no angel but when's the last time he was suspended from duty for such flagrant misbehaviour?

Edited June 15, 2021 by blandy
Libel removed

[blandy]

10 minutes ago, est1874 said:

That's all well and good but you've literally ignored all the other evidence that there is some sort of issue or personality clash there.

And I think it's plainly obvious Gareth doesn't like Villa. He's on record talking about how desperate he was to leave us behind and how glad he was to join massive Middlesbrough at our expense.

You're literally ignoring what we do know about the man in favour of the fact that he spoke to him in the stands once and has picked him for the squad. As I said, there would have been uproar if he hadn't. Now he has the convenient factor of Jack's shins as an excuse to not play him. Simples.

I’m not ignoring anything. I agree there was an issue around Jacks behaviour when he was younger and that he really didn’t help himself with his lockdown car antics. But that’s water under the bridge and he s in the squad, in teams now. GS has worked with him and he’s, by force of talent, earned a place, even though not fully 100%.
I am old enough to remember GS playing for Villa be leaving after 6 years because of the lack of ambition of Doug Ellis. The fans and manager at the time were as hacked off with it as GS was. Yes going to Boro was not a step up, but they were the ones who met the asking price. No one else did. He doesn’t hate Villa you only have to know what he did in the background to realise that. What I do know about GS is he is honest, principled, fair, decent, determined to win and a good international manager. Not great, but he’s a really good fit for England and the players we have. A bit more circumspect than we’d like and still learning, but he’s not a grievance holder or bitter. He’s a thoroughly decent man doing an impossible job. 

[Tom13]

9 minutes ago, est1874 said:

Worried about his maturity?

He started Phil Foden against Croatia at the weekend. Phil Foden who as recently as this season was suspended from the England squad for breaking protocol, hosting a party and employing sex workers while on the job.

Jack's no angel but when's the last time he was suspended from duty for such flagrant misbehaviour?

And I think he's still waiting for Kyle Walker to mature, aged 31.

I think it could be something about Jack's personality that he's had a problem with, not necessarily his behaviour.

[AVFCDAN]

Grealish = Good, Southgate = Bad

/Thread

[est1874]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

I’m not ignoring anything. I agree there was an issue around Jacks behaviour when he was younger and that he really didn’t help himself with his lockdown car antics. But that’s water under the bridge and he s in the squad, in teams now. GS has worked with him and he’s, by force of talent, earned a place, even though not fully 100%.
I am old enough to remember GS playing for Villa be leaving after 6 years because of the lack of ambition of Doug Ellis. The fans and manager at the time were as hacked off with it as GS was. Yes going to Boro was not a step up, but they were the ones who met the asking price. No one else did. He doesn’t hate Villa you only have to know what he did in the background to realise that. What I do know about GS is he is honest, principled, fair, decent, determined to win and a good international manager. Not great, but he’s a really good fit for England and the players we have. A bit more circumspect than we’d like and still learning, but he’s not a grievance holder or bitter. He’s a thoroughly decent man doing an impossible job. 

How's it an impossible job exactly? 

From an outsider's perspective (I'm not English), this is a golden generation for England. They are stacked with talent in every department: some very able goalkeepers, excellent defensive options, an embarrassment of riches in midfield, consistent scorers up front including potentially the most expensive player in the world if/when Kane leaves Spurs this summer.

I can think of a handful of world class managers who would queue up to manage this England team and make history. Which is why it's so absurd that your honest, principled, fair, decent Gareth Southgate is the man at the helm.

Is a difficult job? Sure. It's hard to manage any team at the top level of football. But nobody begged Gareth to stick it out in management after failing at Boro.

Impossible though? Please. Hardly.

[Tomaszk]

37 minutes ago, blandy said:

For some reason, some people are so desperate to believe that Gareth Southgate is just a bitter clint with a chip on his shoulder that they're willing to ignore all evidence to the contrary.

what is that evidence? Well, obviously he’s selected him for the squad. And he’s spent ages watching Jack play, talking to him in the stands when he was injured. He started him in the two friendlies and was about to bring him on just when Sterling scored. Jack himself has praised how GS has been towards him and has focused him on what he needs to do.

He was included when Sancho was left out on Sunday. 

This thread is completely mental. Yes absolutely I’d have a fully fit Jack in the starting 11, but starting the tournament with Sterling and Kane who have been scoring for fun in recent England games and who are England’s 2 most capped squad members was possibly cautious, possibly sound management. Playing Sterling will have given him a big confidence boost, particularly as he then scored the winner. Foden on the right was a decent choice. He’s a fabulous player.

”I think he should have played Jack” is a fine and fair view.

”I think GS is bitter, has an agenda, hates Jack and hates Villa” is paranoid delusional.

Is this normal behaviour? It's narcissistic oddball stuff.

Because he gives the media such lovely access they all tickle his balls and don't give him any sort of hard time for this sort of shit.

If this was Sherwood or Barton or some other clown (or the player played for Utd instead of Villa) who can't play the press as well, this would be mocked so much more.

I don't want Jack changing his game to do anything he's told by this wally.

He should at least have some balls and say he doesn't like him as a player. He can't do what he wants. Nail his colours to the mast and say he prefers Lingard or Rashford as  footballers.

Why bother lying for three years? Championship football, form, goals...blah blah.

[Mantis]

32 minutes ago, smg said:

Haven’t read all of the thread, Jack is a special performer and has qualities that other outstanding players don’t have, however failing to get a manager to pick him is not a new thing, names like Alan Hudson, Stan Bowles, Tony Curry, Frank Worthington, Matt le Tissier and even Glenn Hoddle to a lesser extent all got fewer caps than their talent deserved because their managers didn’t pick them for whatever reason.

True, although it's extra ridiculous given that when Jack has played for England he's run the show basically every time. I still believe there must be something personal going on here.

Either way Southgate is a word removed.

[Lord Willard]

11 minutes ago, blandy said:

What I do know about GS is he is honest, principled, fair, decent, determined to win and a good international manager.

He really isn't.

[maqroll]

The less Jack plays for England the less chance he gets injured playing for England. It'd be nice to watch him play, but I'm ok if he doesn't. 

[birdman]

5 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Is this normal behaviour? It's narcissistic oddball stuff

Yeah he was being an arse for sure however I imagine he was hacked off at being constantly nagged about Jack and was trying (badly) to make a point about other players. You can see the tension in his face and a slight anger I think! Lol

[ThunderPower_14]

I think they're probably past the personal stuff between them but I absolutely think Southgate doesn't want to hear the chorus of "I told you so" if Jack plays well. I feel like that would be like nails down a chalkboard to someone like him. 

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, est1874 said:

How's it an impossible job exactly? 

From an outsider's perspective (I'm not English)...Impossible though? Please. Hardly.

Apologies to non-English posters. There's a long history with England managers (and I'm sure it's the same in some other nations too) of the job being called impossible - Because, basically, whoever you pick, people will disagree and slag you off (see this thread and Jack as evidence). Whenever you lose - the media (papers in particluar) are all calling for you to be sacked, or turning pictures of you into root vegetable parodies. If you win, but without what they deem sufficient style -  - yep, slagged off. The onkly way a manager survives is to win every tournament every time. And they don't. Unrealistic expectations and 55 years of hurt.

It's not literally impossible, just metaphorically, so .

[Tom13]

1 minute ago, birdman said:

Yeah he was being an arse for sure however I imagine he was hacked off at being constantly nagged about Jack and was trying (badly) to make a point about other players. You can see the tension in his face and a slight anger I think! Lol

He was dodging questions about Jack since the very first one he was asked. He wasn't hacked off then.

[MrBlack]

39 minutes ago, brummybloke said:

Having Jack as an impact sub against tired teams doesn't make much sense to me.

Having him on from the start and a couple players getting carded so their game changes to manage the carded players sounds a more realistic way to use him.

Then if his game isn't going well bring on a speedster when the defence is tired.

He is too skilful and technical to be an impact sub which are normally your powerful or fast players.

Just play him for 65 minutes, let him do his shnizzle and take him off for the next game.

 

 

Exactly how I would be using Jack for the games that matter. I'm praying this is Southgates intention, and saw Croatia as an easy chance to get some confidence into his out of form players, and a game which didn't need us to risk Grealish.

I'm beyond hopeful that this is the case, but I sadly suspect it won't be 

[Tom13]

18 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Is this normal behaviour? It's narcissistic oddball stuff.

Because he gives the media such lovely access they all tickle his balls and don't give him any sort of hard time for this sort of shit.

If this was Sherwood or Barton or some other clown (or the player played for Utd instead of Villa) who can't play the press as well, this would be mocked so much more.

I don't want Jack changing his game to do anything he's told by this wally.

He should at least have some balls and say he doesn't like him as a player. He can't do what he wants. Nail his colours to the mast and say he prefers Lingard or Rashford as  footballers.

Why bother lying for three years? Championship football, form, goals...blah blah.

If people don't want to believe there's been an issue there then that's up to them. Some people just can't see something that's so obviously there.

[MrBlack]

5 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

If people don't want to believe there's been an issue there then that's up to them. Some people just can't see something that's so obviously there.

Tbh, it could just be an issue with the media.

Yes, he handled whatever the issue is poorly, he is not a natural performer in front of the camera, but there are a few things it could be that don't equate to it being an innate dislike of Jack.

That video also edits out the bit where he goes on to compliment Jack as well.