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Jack Grealish


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16 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

It gets you as far as the first decent opposition you play. Which in our case will be the first opponent we face after the group stage.

Grealish getting a rest is great for Villa (assuming he doesn't get so disillusioned that he wants to leave), but an absolute joke for England. 

This is my expectation to be honest. England have maybe the 4th best squad but an absolutely terrible coach. Southgate is a decent press manager and can handle all the many duties of managing England including being a really nice bloke but as a coach I think he is a disaster. 

 

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7 minutes ago, thunderball said:

Grealish would have performed better than Mount today. He is a better 10 than Mount, he is better player than Mount. Grealish would have inspired a greater victory today.

We don't know this, all we can do is speculate. Mount and Foden were both pretty quiet today so you'd think he would have done, but Kane was poor and most people would say he's the best player in the England squad so you just don't know how players will perform game to game.

 

Plus Jack still hasn;t looked fully fit since coming back from injury.

 

I hope we see him for the Scotland game. 

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11 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

He's my favourite player at Villa but I don't find these statements helpful. 

Who would you put above him? Not helpful? It's just someone's opinion.

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35 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Like I said, I would have at least brought Jack on today but I think the overreaction after just 1 game is OTT. And whilst I rate Jack very highly, I don't think he's shown anything like what he can yet for England even if he has picked up a couple of motm awards. 

I agree that Jack can play better, but, as you say, he has consistently been England's MOTM.

My fear is that, even if Safegate were to recognise the error of his ways and attempt to play a more progressive side with Jack at its heart, we have not been accustomed to it.  The best teams, imho, have a style of play and understand it.  Safegate is all over the place.

He has consistently picked Dier in a 3-4-3 in the qualifiers and ignored Konsa, White and Dunk, all who have been much better.  Then we get to a tournament and he drops him and starts to play a 4 whilst keeping Coady, who can only really play in a 3.  People are banging on that White should play but why hasn't he been playing/around the squad for 6-12 months ... he's been much better than Dier over that period.

Safegate has a style - I believe it is wrong and does not utilise our key assets to the optimal. I don't think he will change it but if he does he probably doesn't know what that should look like because he has played a negative 3-4-3 for most of the last two years.  He's like Bruce on steroids - he plays dull, "safe" football as he is afraid of losing rather than playing progressive front foot football because he is afraid of not winning.  I personally want to see the latter and believe that we have the squad/talent to do this and compete with the best.  I am not sure that you can switch overnight at this level when you come up against well drilled sides like France or Italy that have an established identity.

Edited by barry'sboots
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13 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

He's my favourite player at Villa but I don't find these statements helpful. 

It is a statement of my opinion, which is backed up by numerous stats and cold hard facts. Not sure why you don't find it helpful. I fully stand by the statement.

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1 hour ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

Foden is absolutely not another Alli or Lingard, he's far more talented than that. I can't believe you would think that to be honest. You don't get into that City team if you are not special that is for sure. I personally think both Foden and Jack are unbelievable players, I'd choose Jack over Foden because I watch him week in week out but I can also understand why another manager would choose Foden. And I say this as someone who's not a fan of Southgate and would like England to appoint a better manager. But going on today's performance I agree Jack would have had more influence.

 

Mount I think less of but his work rate off the ball is something that is important in international football and he's established himself in the team.

 

Like I said, I would have at least brought Jack on today but I think the overreaction after just 1 game is OTT. And whilst I rate Jack very highly, I don't think he's shown anything like what he can yet for England even if he has picked up a couple of motm awards. 

 

If Southgate continues to ignore him as the tournament goes on then I will start to slag him off, but it's very early days and I think we need to calm down a bit. Especially as England won the game. 

You don't get into that city team if you are not special? What about stones, or Mendy, or Gabriel Jesus or Kelechi Ihaenacho. He is a good player but are we going to ignore the fact that alli scored 10 goals and had 9 assists in the prem at 20, 18 goals and 7 assists at 21 and another 9 goals and 10 assists at 22.

Alli was way more **** talented than foden. He scored the most goals from midfield since Lampard. Foden plays in a team with the best player in the world and tbh has very underwhelming stats. He completes about 1.5 dribbles a game and is fouled around once a game as well. Alli was 1.5 and 2. Averaging the same key passes. On top of his extra defensive work. Had like an extra 70% shots so twice as many goals. But again in a far worse team. With alli being a better dribbler.

Passing percentage is lower than foden's but on a similar volume in a team that didn't play the tiki taka stuff like city do which will naturally suppress his passing accuracy. Of course foden averaged 1/6 of allis completed long balls which shows just how different their passing profiles are and why foden may have a higher passing accuracy.

Bare in mind this is both of their age 21 seasons. Foden is doing his in a substantially better side with every single possible advantage. Alli had an arguement for player of the year at 21.

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Going to be some mindblowing pressure on Dean Smith early next season.

We have 3rd best player in world football apparently (he's good but wouldn't go quite so far just yet given his lack of games in european competition). We have Buendia who's already been declared one of best signings of the summer. And we also have regulars for Brazil and Argentina (and the Brazil one wasn't even getting in our team at end of the season).

Teams with that calibre of player simply don't finish 10th or 11th in the league. Only one in recent times I can think of was Chelsea in 15/16 and they were in open revolt against Mourinho for half of that season so up to Dean to really step up now.

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I mean just because we have players who play for Brazil (Douglas didn't even make the squad tonight did he?) and Argentina (Martinez only recently won his first cap) etc doesn't mean our squad is on par with Chelseas in 15/16 ffs :D

Edited by Tom13
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2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

We don't know this, all we can do is speculate. Mount and Foden were both pretty quiet today so you'd think he would have done, but Kane was poor and most people would say he's the best player in the England squad so you just don't know how players will perform game to game.

 

Plus Jack still hasn;t looked fully fit since coming back from injury.

 

I hope we see him for the Scotland game. 

I thought Foden was class in the first half, he faded a bit in the second but that’s understandable 

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9 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I thought Foden was class in the first half, he faded a bit in the second but that’s understandable 

I don't know what game you were watching. He did 3 things in the first half. Hit the post which fair enough did well to control the ball from an overhit sterling pass but was poor defending. 2nd play a dangerous crossfield pass that they had a blocked shot from. 3rd he stopped a dangerous attack we had by playing a pass 5 yards in front of Mount. Aside from that he pressed for the first 20 minutes then gave up. And lost the ball every time it came to him in the final third. 

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2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

I don't know what game you were watching. He did 3 things in the first half. Hit the post which fair enough did well to control the ball from an overhit sterling pass but was poor defending. 2nd play a dangerous crossfield pass that they had a blocked shot from. 3rd he stopped a dangerous attack we had by playing a pass 5 yards in front of Mount. Aside from that he pressed for the first 20 minutes then gave up. And lost the ball every time it came to him in the final third. 

I thought he ran the show in the first half, everything went through him. I think that fans’ expectations of players are too high, they are not superhuman, we expect miracles from players. I think Foden is immense and will only get better in time, he plays like this at 20, imagine him when he’s 28, scary thought

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9 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

I thought he ran the show in the first half, everything went through him. I think that fans’ expectations of players are too high, they are not superhuman, we expect miracles from players. I think Foden is immense and will only get better in time, he plays like this at 20, imagine him when he’s 28, scary thought

Man I'm sure you will love this guy who in his age 20 to 22 seasons who averaged 12 goals and 9 assists. Who was statistically superior to foden in every way except passing accuracy. Scored the most goals from a midfielder in a season since Lampard. His name is delle Alli.

Foden ran the show? What on earth? He barely got the ball. He had 22 passes. That's awful. Completed zero dribbles, was fouled not once. Was tackled twice. Did literally nothing defensively except for a cynical and unnecessary foul that resulted in him getting booked. No key passes either.

That's what I call an awful game. If jack had that performance we'd be saying that was his worst in years. 

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9 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Man I'm sure you will love this guy who in his age 20 to 22 seasons who averaged 12 goals and 9 assists. Who was statistically superior to foden in every way except passing accuracy. Scored the most goals from a midfielder in a season since Lampard. His name is delle Alli.

Foden ran the show? What on earth? He barely got the ball. He had 22 passes. That's awful. Completed zero dribbles, was fouled not once. Was tackled twice. Did literally nothing defensively except for a cynical and unnecessary foul that resulted in him getting booked. No key passes either.

That's what I call an awful game. If jack had that performance we'd be saying that was his worst in years. 

The game isn’t played on paper, Foden for me is one of the best young players in the world, I think Pep thinks the same, he’s capable of moments of brilliance, he can change the game in an instant. Everyone sees the game differently, has a different view on the game, that shot where he the post was genius

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13 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

The game isn’t played on paper, Foden for me is one of the best young players in the world, I think Pep thinks the same, he’s capable of moments of brilliance, he can change the game in an instant. Everyone sees the game differently, has a different view on the game, that shot where he the post was genius

"Genius" It was literally the only thing on. It's the shot you take 9/10 times in that situation and he missed. 

What else must be genius?

Must mean Yarmolenko is better than grealish or Kane or any number of other players. 

Ridiculous. Foden is a good player but he isn't even in the same class as mount and I would say Bellingham is better than him as well. He is so overrated. He is a slightly above average premier league player. He's about as good as Bertrand traore (obviously an exaggeration he is better than him but I wouldn't say substantially so). Except obviously 4 or 5 years younger. But to act like he is Mbappe. Or Halaand is a joke. These are their teams best players their driving forces. Foden is an afterthought. Who let's face it wouldn't get a minute for city if he wasn't 20 and Sterling hadn't had his worst season since first joining city. 

I'll give a young Winger who I think is substantially better (they are the same age so I think it is fair) Pedro Neto. Same Passing accuracy on same number of passes, more successful dribbles (only just behind jack in progressive carry distance per 95), fouled the same number of times creates far more chances per game about 50% more. Scored 4 fewer goals got 1 more assist but in a very bad side. 

Edited by MotoMkali
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Jack is undeniably world class. He would start for every club and national side in the world, apart from England apparently. 

He could arguably be even more value at international level, because he doesn't need help or a system to carry the ball into the box and create chances. Given national teams have so little time to gel and learn their system, that's vital. 

This wasn't a game where we dominated and peppered the goal. If anything we were lucky to get the one we did. Leaving your most creative player on the bench is insanity. 

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Some here need to appreciate that Southgate is not going to just pick the 11 most in form players or 11 best players. If that were the  case then Konsa should have been selected to the squad over Mings. The idea is to put together a lineup that is balanced and gives the best chance to meet the team's objectives. Feel Southgate achieved that yesterday - as much as I would have loved to see Grealish start/play.

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This thread is a bit off topic today 😂

Jack not playing today was a joke, as far as I am concerned Rashford and Sterling are 4th and fifth choice to start as a wide forward.

it isn’t surprising as it is Southgate, he even played a right back at left back for litterally no reason and persists with Pickford instead of the superior Henderson. But we scraped a 1-0 win against an obviously aging Croatia side so all his calls were right 🙄

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1 minute ago, nepal_villan said:

Some here need to appreciate that Southgate is not going to just pick the 11 most in form players or 11 best players. If that were the  case then Konsa should have been selected to the squad over Mings. The idea is to put together a lineup that is balanced and gives the best chance to meet the team's objectives. Feel Southgate achieved that yesterday - as much as I would have loved to see Grealish start/play.

Ah right so a right back at left back is balanced… nope.

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1 minute ago, nepal_villan said:

Some here need to appreciate that Southgate is not going to just pick the 11 most in form players or 11 best players. If that were the  case then Konsa should have been selected to the squad over Mings. The idea is to put together a lineup that is balanced and gives the best chance to meet the team's objectives. Feel Southgate achieved that yesterday - as much as I would have loved to see Grealish start/play.

I guess the argument is that if the teams objectives are to end up with 2 shots on target against a middling Croatia, it doesn't bode well for us as the tournament goes on. 

We have such an incredible array of attacking talent. Nicking goals with long balls and then protecting the lead isn't the best use of that talent at all. 

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