MotoMkali Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Tom13 said: Coudln't care less how much experience those three have. Grealish is better than all three, and is guaranteed to perform better at least than Rashford and Sterling. He could have a 6/10 and be better than those pair. Indeed that arguement always rings hollow to me when Jack grealish has twice played in the single biggest and most important game in football. The playoff final is the most important game in football. Losing it can destroy your team. Look at Derby or hell us 3 3 years ago. Aside from that he has been the best and the 2nd best player in Cup final runs. One to the league Cup final the other to the FA Cup. He has as much tournament experience as any if them. And is also the only one who didn't choke on the big games. Like Rashford, Foden and Sterling did in their cup finals this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, barry'sboots said: I don't agree, he was great as an "11" when he first broke into the side (the Liverpool FAC semi is a classic example). He has looked great at "8" at times - I remember him dismantling Neves at Villa Park when we beat the Dogheads in their promotion season as an "8". He was shifted back to "11" because Smith had an issue with front line creativity. I think he has taken himself physically to another level with all his work with Ollie Stevenson. I understand that Jonathan Barnett has been quite influential in getting Jack to fully focus and optimise his talent. He also looks better when he gets better players around him - as anyone would. Signing Ollie has been a huge help to him obviously and he looked fantastic playing with Barkley at the start of the season. But equally, if we had bought in Buendia (RW) and, say, McNeil (LW) and played Jack as ne of two "8"s with, say, SJM or at "10" I think he would have looked just as good. The kid is pure quality and always has been across a number of positions - 7, 8, 10 & 11. I don't think he owes his stardom to anybody in particular other than himself, although Ollie Stevenson (physicality), his teammates (to a degree although you do sometimes feel he could do it himself) and, obviously, all his managers and coaches have supported him in certain ways. He also claims he thinks he can play as part of a pivot. He works really hard and won't be beaten in a physical battle by anyone but the strongest players so I'm inclined to believe him even if it wouldn't maximise his talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 I love Jack but I think we put him on a bit of a pedestal on here. Fantastic player but England has many of those especially in the forward positions. Saying he's superior to Mount and Foden is doing them a disservice - Mount has always performed for England and Foden is a generational talent. Shaw, Chilwell, Sancho and Saka could all be pretty pissed that they weren't involved today either, not just Jack. It's disappointing he didn't get on and if he doesn't feature in the next 2 games then of course beaky deserves a lot of criticism, but to say it's because he plays for Villa is absolute rubbish given Mings started today and the likes of Rice, Phillips and Pickford played who aren't at any of the Greedy 6 clubs. Oh, and only one Man Ure player was involved (Rashford) and he only came on as sub. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 minute ago, VillaFaninLondon said: I love Jack but I think we put him on a bit of a pedestal on here. Fantastic player but England has many of those especially in the forward positions. Saying he's superior to Mount and Foden is doing them a disservice - Mount has always performed for England and Foden is a generational talent. Shaw, Chilwell, Sancho and Saka could all be pretty pissed that they weren't involved today either, not just Jack. It's disappointing he didn't get on and if he doesn't feature in the next 2 games then of course beaky deserves a lot of criticism, but to say it's because he plays for Villa is absolute rubbish given Mings started today and the likes of Rice, Phillips and Pickford played who aren't at any of the Greedy 6 clubs. Oh, and only one Man Ure player was involved (Rashford) and he only came on as sub. I'm sorry I just don't believe in Foden. For me there is a good chance he is another Delle Alli, Jesse Lingard. Or even rashford. Everyone banging on about how good they were in unbelievably talented teams and when it came their time to take on a bigger role they were shrinking violets and paper tigers. Only really rashford maintained his form. But he has never kicked on. He's still young so there is still time. Foden just doesn't seem to have the ability to take the game by the scruff of the neck and create a chance or score. Now mount I actually quite like. But he just isn't in the same league as Jack. Jack was a class abive everyone but Kane, Fernandes, Dias, De Bruyne (when fit) and Gundogan in the premier league this season. I don't see how you can't say that he isn't better than them. And frankly it isn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Just now, MotoMkali said: He also claims he thinks he can play as part of a pivot. He works really hard and won't be beaten in a physical battle by anyone but the strongest players so I'm inclined to believe him even if it wouldn't maximise his talents. I think he could. He has played deeper for us in the past and is a pretty good tackler/defender - he is certainly not a Jack Wilshere. I like Kalvin Phillips and would loved us to have signed him a few years back BUT he is a DCM and a direct competitor for Rice's shirt. To pick him today and play him further forward seems mad to me when Bellingham, Mount and even Jack would have been much better (with much more experience and a much more relevant skill set) in that more progressive role. The fact that he looked so good said more to me about the weakness of the ageing Croatian CM than Phillips' abilities BUT the media appear to be viewing it as a major tactical victory for Safegate. I believe that Phillips will get schooled of he goes up against Italy, Germany, France etc. in that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: I love Jack but I think we put him on a bit of a pedestal on here. Fantastic player but England has many of those especially in the forward positions. Saying he's superior to Mount and Foden is doing them a disservice - Mount has always performed for England and Foden is a generational talent. Shaw, Chilwell, Sancho and Saka could all be pretty pissed that they weren't involved today either, not just Jack. It's disappointing he didn't get on and if he doesn't feature in the next 2 games then of course beaky deserves a lot of criticism, but to say it's because he plays for Villa is absolute rubbish given Mings started today and the likes of Rice, Phillips and Pickford played who aren't at any of the Greedy 6 clubs. Oh, and only one Man Ure player was involved (Rashford) and he only came on as sub. Same bro. Some Villa fans does remind me a bit of Samatta's followers at times. You can say Grealish is better than Mount and Foden. That's a perfectly fine opinion to have but when you shit talk on Foden and Mount calling them crap players etc no one will take you seriously and you come across very bitter and immature. That being said Jack would be in my team if i picked the team every day of the week. But i can't really say much or argue when Southgate is getting the results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 27 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said: Southgate is a mediocre manager but I cant fault him for a win. In the main this kind of crap football is what gets you far in tournaments so I get it. Grealish didnt get injured thats the important thing for me. It gets you as far as the first decent opposition you play. Which in our case will be the first opponent we face after the group stage. Grealish getting a rest is great for Villa (assuming he doesn't get so disillusioned that he wants to leave), but an absolute joke for England. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez500 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) Tifo did a decent video on why Sterling could have been picked over Grealish today: In short, we needed someone to run in behind not play in front like Jack does. It also highlights the importance of Mings and his long balls as well as suggest why Trippier was preferred to a LB (more defensive). Edited June 13, 2021 by Tez500 Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: I love Jack but I think we put him on a bit of a pedestal on here. Fantastic player but England has many of those especially in the forward positions. Saying he's superior to Mount and Foden is doing them a disservice - Mount has always performed for England and Foden is a generational talent. Shaw, Chilwell, Sancho and Saka could all be pretty pissed that they weren't involved today either, not just Jack. It's disappointing he didn't get on and if he doesn't feature in the next 2 games then of course beaky deserves a lot of criticism, but to say it's because he plays for Villa is absolute rubbish given Mings started today and the likes of Rice, Phillips and Pickford played who aren't at any of the Greedy 6 clubs. Oh, and only one Man Ure player was involved (Rashford) and he only came on as sub. We're not putting him on a pedestal. The stats don't lie. Have a look at the stats I posted on the previous page. He's comfortably the best player in our squad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: I love Jack but I think we put him on a bit of a pedestal on here. Fantastic player but England has many of those especially in the forward positions. Saying he's superior to Mount and Foden is doing them a disservice - Mount has always performed for England and Foden is a generational talent. Shaw, Chilwell, Sancho and Saka could all be pretty pissed that they weren't involved today either, not just Jack. It's disappointing he didn't get on and if he doesn't feature in the next 2 games then of course beaky deserves a lot of criticism, but to say it's because he plays for Villa is absolute rubbish given Mings started today and the likes of Rice, Phillips and Pickford played who aren't at any of the Greedy 6 clubs. Oh, and only one Man Ure player was involved (Rashford) and he only came on as sub. Nah don't buy it. Look at the stats on this page or last, Grealish is special. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Just now, Tom13 said: Nah don't buy it. Look at the stats on this page or last, Grealish is special. Top 3 players in the world currently with Mbappe and De Bruyne for me. Every single stat you find backs this up too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Same bro. Some Villa fans does remind me a bit of Samatta's followers at times. You can say Grealish is better than Mount and Foden. That's a perfectly fine opinion to have but when you shit talk on Foden and Mount calling them crap players etc no one will take you seriously and you come across very bitter and immature. That being said Jack would be in my team if i picked the team every day of the week. But i can't really say much or argue when Southgate is getting the results. I don't think I've seen anyone say that they are crap players?? Clearly that would be churlish - they have both just played in the Champions League Final and both were seen as key players/influencers on their team. Mount is clearly quality - he's just won the champions league and has dragged (almost) that team through at times this season, certainly been their best player at times alongside a recent resurgence in Kante. He is quality but, for me, is a dynamic "8" that can play "10" but cannot do what Jack does on the ball. Foden is also quality BUT has been bought up in the Citeh set up playing with some of the best attacking talent in the world. He is used to one touch football, pass and move, playing "Guardiola" ball. He has not had the footballing education that Jack has had, playing in, until recently, a struggling Villa team and having to drag it over the line and definitely be its prime creative force. I think Jack's experience is more relevant to the England set up - where the quality/interplay is probably not up to the Citeh level and it needs somebody to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and take control. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHY Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) Mount and Foden are both quality players. I do however think Foden was average today, largely down to the fact he didn’t get much of the ball. When he did outside of his early shot he didn’t do a great deal with it. At City he is used to seeing a lot of ball as they dominate possession. This is something he will need to learn whilst playing for England, he needs to have more impact when he gets the ball, given we don’t generally dominate the ball. This for me is what makes Grealish different to most players in the squad, he’s used to playing in a team that generally has less possession but when he gets it he makes things happen. This is the reason I would pick him to start! Edited June 13, 2021 by WHY 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, WHY said: Mount and Foden are both quality players. I do however think Foden was average today, largely down to the fact he didn’t get much of the ball. When he did outside of his early shot he didn’t do a great deal with it. At City he is used to seeing a lot of ball as they dominate possession. This is something he will need to learn whilst playing for England, he need to have more impact when he get the ball, given we don’t generally dominate the ball. This for me is what makes Grealish different to most players in the squad, he’s used to playing in a team that generally has less possession but when he gets it he makes things happen. This is the reason I would pick him to start! I would have to agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: I'm sorry I just don't believe in Foden. For me there is a good chance he is another Delle Alli, Jesse Lingard. Or even rashford. Everyone banging on about how good they were in unbelievably talented teams and when it came their time to take on a bigger role they were shrinking violets and paper tigers. Only really rashford maintained his form. But he has never kicked on. He's still young so there is still time. Foden just doesn't seem to have the ability to take the game by the scruff of the neck and create a chance or score. Now mount I actually quite like. But he just isn't in the same league as Jack. Jack was a class abive everyone but Kane, Fernandes, Dias, De Bruyne (when fit) and Gundogan in the premier league this season. I don't see how you can't say that he isn't better than them. And frankly it isn't even close. Foden is absolutely not another Alli or Lingard, he's far more talented than that. I can't believe you would think that to be honest. You don't get into that City team if you are not special that is for sure. I personally think both Foden and Jack are unbelievable players, I'd choose Jack over Foden because I watch him week in week out but I can also understand why another manager would choose Foden. And I say this as someone who's not a fan of Southgate and would like England to appoint a better manager. But going on today's performance I agree Jack would have had more influence. Mount I think less of but his work rate off the ball is something that is important in international football and he's established himself in the team. Like I said, I would have at least brought Jack on today but I think the overreaction after just 1 game is OTT. And whilst I rate Jack very highly, I don't think he's shown anything like what he can yet for England even if he has picked up a couple of motm awards. If Southgate continues to ignore him as the tournament goes on then I will start to slag him off, but it's very early days and I think we need to calm down a bit. Especially as England won the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: I love Jack but I think we put him on a bit of a pedestal on here. Fantastic player but England has many of those especially in the forward positions. Saying he's superior to Mount and Foden is doing them a disservice - Mount has always performed for England and Foden is a generational talent. Shaw, Chilwell, Sancho and Saka could all be pretty pissed that they weren't involved today either, not just Jack. It's disappointing he didn't get on and if he doesn't feature in the next 2 games then of course beaky deserves a lot of criticism, but to say it's because he plays for Villa is absolute rubbish given Mings started today and the likes of Rice, Phillips and Pickford played who aren't at any of the Greedy 6 clubs. Oh, and only one Man Ure player was involved (Rashford) and he only came on as sub. Grealish would have performed better than Mount today. He is a better 10 than Mount, he is better player than Mount. Grealish would have inspired a greater victory today. Edited June 13, 2021 by thunderball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, Tez500 said: Tifo did a decent video on why Sterling could have been picked over Grealish today: In short, we needed someone to run in behind not play in front like Jack does. It also highlights the importance of Mings and his long balls as well as suggest why Trippier was preferred to a LB (more defensive). But I would have played Grealish at 10 instead of Mount, not for Sterling as this suggests. Rice and Philips give the 10 a licence to roam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Tez500 said: Tifo did a decent video on why Sterling could have been picked over Grealish today: In short, we needed someone to run in behind not play in front like Jack does. It also highlights the importance of Mings and his long balls as well as suggest why Trippier was preferred to a LB (more defensive). 8 minutes of my life I'll never get back - he could have said all of that in 60 seconds if he'd cut out the repetition. I certainly get the pace to stretch a defence. I don't think you need a Rice and Philips though! Philips played as an "8" which he has never done at club level let alone at International level. Mount could have played there (or even Jack!) with Jack at 10 and we would have had much more control imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, MrBlack said: It gets you as far as the first decent opposition you play. Which in our case will be the first opponent we face after the group stage. Grealish getting a rest is great for Villa (assuming he doesn't get so disillusioned that he wants to leave), but an absolute joke for England. This is my expectation to be honest. England have maybe the 4th best squad but an absolutely terrible coach. Southgate is a decent press manager and can handle all the many duties of managing England including being a really nice bloke but as a coach I think he is a disaster. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, Okonokos said: Top 3 players in the world currently with Mbappe and De Bruyne for me. Every single stat you find backs this up too. He's my favourite player at Villa but I don't find these statements helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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