Woodytom Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Wow superb news for him. Great to see such a young talent get a place on the bench. I havent seen him play. is he that good or is he just another bannan/allbrighton???? I think if he was that good we would have seen him already. Especially with the current state of the squad. Rooney was making appearances and having an effect at the age of 16. Not once have we had that with any of these young lads - which tells me that not one of them will be world class. Messi didn't make his debut until he was 17 so that is complete rubbish Did Messi make his debut in an utterly abysmal team, that cant string two or three passes together, let alone results - who had literally no senior players available? Or was he making his debut in one of the best teams in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Not writing the kid off at all. Just saying that if he was anything to truly get excited about (i.e. something we havent seen over and over before with the likes of Delfouneso and co), then he would certainly be playing imo, in a totally depleted team thats absolutely shite when at full strength anyway. He may run riot at Plop, who knows? But I for one am bored of getting excited about these kids who in the large part - dont seem to be good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwpzxjor1 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 The main problem with Villa's youths is there is now too much expectation for them to be the next big thing. Perhaps because we're all so apathetic about our current team we're looking for positives elsewhere - but we seem to be expecting any half-decent youngster to be the next big thing.. it's not how good young players are made. Having expectation on you to perform as a teenage debutant can shatter your confidence. And then on the flip side of things you have pockets of fans saying he's rubbish just because he's not as good as Rooney or Messi? Jeeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 And then on the flip side of things you have pockets of fans saying he's rubbish just because he's not as good as Rooney or Messi? Jeeze. Errrr, no. What you have is people not bothering to read posts properly and coming up with silly remarks as a result. All I said was that because we are yet to see him - even with our squad so depleted - he is not going to be the next big thing or even a top notch player imo. With that in mind, I see nothing to get overly excited about. Let me put it another way... Gabby is probably the biggest success of our academy in recent years. Scores a goal every 5 or 6 matches. Been absolutely dire for 2 seasons. I will start getting excited when we start producing a lot better than that. FWIW, I agree with the rest of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Not writing the kid off at all. Just saying that if he was anything to truly get excited about (i.e. something we havent seen over and over before with the likes of Delfouneso and co), then he would certainly be playing imo, in a totally depleted team thats absolutely shite when at full strength anyway. Unfortunately that logic doesnt always follow. Heskey is still getting plenty of football and there is no way he is better than most of the players he might be keeping out the side. Lichaq had a very good game last week but no doubt Hutton will return etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Not writing the kid off at all. Just saying that if he was anything to truly get excited about (i.e. something we havent seen over and over before with the likes of Delfouneso and co), then he would certainly be playing imo, in a totally depleted team thats absolutely shite when at full strength anyway. Unfortunately that logic doesnt always follow. Heskey is still getting plenty of football and there is no way he is better than most of the players he might be keeping out the side. Lichaq had a very good game last week but no doubt Hutton will return etc etc. Well there is the issue of the manager of course, but the chances are it will turn out how it always turns out imo. I mean, we all though MON was mad for not unleashing Delboy. How right does he look now? Im just frustrated that we have all this hype about the academy yet none of them, not a single one that comes through - comes into the team all guns blazing with a massive impact. They all come in, look shit scared and at best, do a half decent job. Seriously, as much stick as he gets, Marc Albrighton is the one who has the most impressive stats. At least he pops up with a goal no and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 They all come in, look shit scared. This isnt a dig at you but maybe its because we are quick to get on their backs. Moaning and groaning at Villa Park isnt just down to McLeish, I always think Villa fans are very quick to judge and to moan. Collymore split the fans, Alan Thompson was one for abuse, Downing in his first season, Ireland, Hutton (although he didnt help himself), Bent gets people frustrated, Nzogbia had been given next to no time before he was deemed as useless, Angel although people wanted him to score people were forever moaning. I do believe we are quite a hostile lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 They all come in, look shit scared. This isnt a dig at you but maybe its because we are quick to get on their backs. Moaning and groaning at Villa Park isnt just down to McLeish, I always think Villa fans are very quick to judge and to moan. Collymore split the fans, Alan Thompson was one for abuse, Downing in his first season, Ireland, Hutton (although he didnt help himself), Bent gets people frustrated, Nzogbia had been given next to no time before he was deemed as useless. I do believe we are quite a hostile lot. Totally agree, but I dont think were any different to any other top competitive sports team tbh. They get paid an awful lot of money and if they are not comfortable playing in difficult atmospheres when the going gets tough, - then thats half of not being good enough for me. People will criticise in all walks of life and its the ability to overcome this that makes people good/great at what they are. Ive always been more of a fan of Heskey than most (Not this season btw). He may not have skill in abundance. He obviously has some as he wouldnt win 57 caps for his country. What he has got though, is an undoubted mental ability to ignore a bombardment of negativity and criticism in order to keep playing at the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 They all come in, look shit scared. This isnt a dig at you but maybe its because we are quick to get on their backs. Moaning and groaning at Villa Park isnt just down to McLeish, I always think Villa fans are very quick to judge and to moan. Collymore split the fans, Alan Thompson was one for abuse, Downing in his first season, Ireland, Hutton (although he didnt help himself), Bent gets people frustrated, Nzogbia had been given next to no time before he was deemed as useless. I do believe we are quite a hostile lot. Totally agree, but I dont think were any different to any other top competitive sports team tbh. They get paid an awful lot of money and if they are not comfortable playing in difficult atmospheres when the going gets tough, - then thats half of not being good enough for me. People will criticise in all walks of life and its the ability to overcome this that makes people good/great at what they are. Ive always been more of a fan of Heskey than most (Not this season btw). He may not have skill in abundance. He obviously has some as he wouldnt win 57 caps for his country. What he has got though, is an undoubted mental ability to ignore a bombardment of negativity and criticism in order to keep playing at the highest level. I agree with most of that, even on Heskey, but not the bit about not being different to any other sports team. Yeah other fans of other teams will also moan and criticise but I actually do think we are one of the worst culprits for this kind of behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGregor1888 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Wow superb news for him. Great to see such a young talent get a place on the bench. I havent seen him play. is he that good or is he just another bannan/allbrighton???? I think if he was that good we would have seen him already. Especially with the current state of the squad. Rooney was making appearances and having an effect at the age of 16. Not once have we had that with any of these young lads - which tells me that not one of them will be world class. And what would your definition of 'world class' be? One of the best players in the world or even league. We never have them. We can't buy them so we have to create them and atm we dont seem to be. We just seem to be gettin excited about the likes of Bannan, Delfouneso, Gardner etc - all of whom initially dont look like theyre even worth getting excited about. Of course there is still time, but name me one player out of the 10/15 over the last season or so who has consistently been very good. Theyre not all going to be top notch of course, but not one could you hand on heart say yes, look at him in prem league company - hes going to be top class. Name me any club in the Premier League that can say this of one of their kids this season? A top class/world class player? Not one club could. Welbeck's had a very good season but he is playing in a winning team with some highly motivated senior pros around him. Is he a top class/world class player? He's certainly not world class, that's for sure. As for our kids, under these circumstances they are certainly going through a tough baptism - it's far too early to judge who will make it. Looking at our youngsters, though, I notice Bannan, Weimann, Albrighton, Lichaj, Clark and Delfouneso have all opened their Premier League goal scoring accounts over the past twelve months. Can any other club boast that many homegrown lads coming through and having such an impact - especially when their club has been in turmoil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMFy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Wow superb news for him. Great to see such a young talent get a place on the bench. I havent seen him play. is he that good or is he just another bannan/allbrighton???? I think if he was that good we would have seen him already. Especially with the current state of the squad. Rooney was making appearances and having an effect at the age of 16. Not once have we had that with any of these young lads - which tells me that not one of them will be world class. And what would your definition of 'world class' be? One of the best players in the world or even league. We never have them. We can't buy them so we have to create them and atm we dont seem to be. We just seem to be gettin excited about the likes of Bannan, Delfouneso, Gardner etc - all of whom initially dont look like theyre even worth getting excited about. Of course there is still time, but name me one player out of the 10/15 over the last season or so who has consistently been very good. Theyre not all going to be top notch of course, but not one could you hand on heart say yes, look at him in prem league company - hes going to be top class. 'World Class' means able to compete on a level playing field with the best in the world. To be a world class midfielder, you've got to be able to match up to Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldo. Does anyone really expect us to pull these players out of our academy? I don't. I don't try and build them up to that though and then shoot them down if they only reach the pitiful standards of Arjen Robben or David Silva. It's completely unfair to shoot these kids down though when they are shoved into a shit team with a dumb word removed of a manager and expected to set the world on fire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Wow superb news for him. Great to see such a young talent get a place on the bench. I havent seen him play. is he that good or is he just another bannan/allbrighton???? I think if he was that good we would have seen him already. Especially with the current state of the squad. Rooney was making appearances and having an effect at the age of 16. Not once have we had that with any of these young lads - which tells me that not one of them will be world class. And what would your definition of 'world class' be? One of the best players in the world or even league. We never have them. We can't buy them so we have to create them and atm we dont seem to be. We just seem to be gettin excited about the likes of Bannan, Delfouneso, Gardner etc - all of whom initially dont look like theyre even worth getting excited about. Of course there is still time, but name me one player out of the 10/15 over the last season or so who has consistently been very good. Theyre not all going to be top notch of course, but not one could you hand on heart say yes, look at him in prem league company - hes going to be top class. Name me any club in the Premier League that can say this of one of their kids this season? A top class/world class player? Not one club could. Welbeck's had a very good season but he is playing in a winning team with some highly motivated senior pros around him. Is he a top class/world class player? He's certainly not world class, that's for sure. As for our kids, under these circumstances they are certainly going through a tough baptism - it's far too early to judge who will make it. Looking at our youngsters, though, I notice Bannan, Weimann, Albrighton, Lichaj, Clark and Delfouneso have all opened their Premier League goal scoring accounts over the past twelve months. Can any other club boast that many homegrown lads coming through and having such an impact - especially when their club has been in turmoil? FWIW I dont think any of our youngsters would cement a place in the Man Utd team keeping out two top strikers in Berbatov and Hernandez like Welbeck has. He also had a very good season for Sunderland last term. Then you have Danny Sturridge who again has spent the season at times keeping out Drogba, Kalou, Torres etc. Yes they are playing with top players but they are also holding their own and not just doing a job. Jack Wilshere has not only had a huge impact for Arsenal, but has already on occasions been a stand out player for England at senior level. I would say had he not been injured, he would have progressed even further this season. I am not shooting these kids down, and what you describe above I am very proud of. I was proud of the line-up v Chelsea. Shit scared of relegation as a result, but very proud. For 2 years now, we have made excuses that its difficult for them. Yes it is, no shit, Its called the premier league, and other than 'looking lively' (which I could go on and do), there has been very little to write home about. Let me ask you - was it easy for the kids of Man Utd to win the league? Let me sum up where I am - (as you put it - 'make it') Stephen Warnock has made it Alan Hutton has made it Emile Heskey has made it James Collins has made it John Carew had made it James Milner had made it Gabby Agbonlahor has made it Gareth Barry had made it Ashley Young had made it Richard Dunne has made it Brad Friedel had made it Marlon Harewood had made it Nigel Reo-Coker had made it Stan petrov has made it Nzog has made it ...............etc. etc. (Take yourself back 20 years of senior players at Aston Villa) - Theyd all made it. Tell me, What the fook have/did we ever win with those guys? 2 league cups? These guys are that good, were still flippin deciding if theyre going to make it or not. Forgive me for being a tadge realistic and wanting a little bit more to get excited about. And this is all Im saying about Grealish. Hey I have never even seen the lad play - and Im over the moon for him that hes made the squad at a young age. And I hope he gets a game and batters Liverpool in their own backyard - There wont be a better birthday present . That would make me sit-up, take notice and be confident we wont still be wondering if hes going to 'make it when hes 20, 21 or 22. And whether its due to the shite manager, the quality of the opposition, the negative tactics, the inability of the team to string 3 passes together or whether he just isnt good enough himself - unfortunately, 20 years of being a villa fan tells me he won't go on and batter Liverpool............. Hel probably get on and look lively tho Apologies Mods for initially going OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevangrealish Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Wow superb news for him. Great to see such a young talent get a place on the bench. I havent seen him play. is he that good or is he just another bannan/allbrighton???? I think if he was that good we would have seen him already. Especially with the current state of the squad. Rooney was making appearances and having an effect at the age of 16. Not once have we had that with any of these young lads - which tells me that not one of them will be world class. And what would your definition of 'world class' be? One of the best players in the world or even league. We never have them. We can't buy them so we have to create them and atm we dont seem to be. We just seem to be gettin excited about the likes of Bannan, Delfouneso, Gardner etc - all of whom initially dont look like theyre even worth getting excited about. Of course there is still time, but name me one player out of the 10/15 over the last season or so who has consistently been very good. Theyre not all going to be top notch of course, but not one could you hand on heart say yes, look at him in prem league company - hes going to be top class. Name me any club in the Premier League that can say this of one of their kids this season? A top class/world class player? Not one club could. Welbeck's had a very good season but he is playing in a winning team with some highly motivated senior pros around him. Is he a top class/world class player? He's certainly not world class, that's for sure. As for our kids, under these circumstances they are certainly going through a tough baptism - it's far too early to judge who will make it. Looking at our youngsters, though, I notice Bannan, Weimann, Albrighton, Lichaj, Clark and Delfouneso have all opened their Premier League goal scoring accounts over the past twelve months. Can any other club boast that many homegrown lads coming through and having such an impact - especially when their club has been in turmoil? FWIW I dont think any of our youngsters would cement a place in the Man Utd team keeping out two top strikers in Berbatov and Hernandez like Welbeck has. He also had a very good season for Sunderland last term. Then you have Danny Sturridge who again has spent the season at times keeping out Drogba, Kalou, Torres etc. Yes they are playing with top players but they are also holding their own and not just doing a job. Jack Wilshere has not only had a huge impact for Arsenal, but has already on occasions been a stand out player for England at senior level. I would say had he not been injured, he would have progressed even further this season. I am not shooting these kids down, and what you describe above I am very proud of. I was proud of the line-up v Chelsea. Shit scared of relegation as a result, but very proud. For 2 years now, we have made excuses that its difficult for them. Yes it is, no shit, Its called the premier league, and other than 'looking lively' (which I could go on and do), there has been very little to write home about. Let me ask you - was it easy for the kids of Man Utd to win the league? Let me sum up where I am - (as you put it - 'make it') Stephen Warnock has made it Alan Hutton has made it Emile Heskey has made it James Collins has made it John Carew had made it James Milner had made it Gabby Agbonlahor has made it Gareth Barry had made it Ashley Young had made it Richard Dunne has made it Brad Friedel had made it Marlon Harewood had made it Nigel Reo-Coker had made it Stan petrov has made it Nzog has made it ...............etc. etc. (Take yourself back 20 years of senior players at Aston Villa) - Theyd all made it. Tell me, What the fook have/did we ever win with those guys? 2 league cups? These guys are that good, were still flippin deciding if theyre going to make it or not. Forgive me for being a tadge realistic and wanting a little bit more to get excited about. And this is all Im saying about Grealish. Hey I have never even seen the lad play - and Im over the moon for him that hes made the squad at a young age. And I hope he gets a game and batters Liverpool in their own backyard - There wont be a better birthday present . That would make me sit-up, take notice and be confident we wont still be wondering if hes going to 'make it when hes 20, 21 or 22. And whether its due to the shite manager, the quality of the opposition, the negative tactics, the inability of the team to string 3 passes together or whether he just isnt good enough himself - unfortunately, 20 years of being a villa fan tells me he won't go on and batter Liverpool............. Hel probably get on and look lively tho Apologies Mods for initially going OT Ive read a few of these posts and it seems you do have some valid points. I will not comment on how good jack is or how good he could be because it is unknown for sure. All i will say is forget all this crap talk about what we will have for a second and just remind me When was ANY player on the bench at 16 in the premier league? Never mind our squad for e.g: Gabby is our most successful youngster you say... but remind me when he got on the bench? I can see where you come from but im afraid if you have never seen Jack play i do not believe your opinion on him should be valid. Oh and also i do know we have had a LOT of injuries within the squad and no doubt that was a contributing factor but if you followed youth/reserve team games then you would know that jack plays a lot and that jack is in fact played more games than wingers that are older than him so its not a case of 'that 16 year old's last resort' merely as Alex Mcleish said 'if theyre good enough theyre old enough'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 As for Mr Grealish.... having seen him fawning over Ferdinand on Twitter last night after out 4-0 humping he can **** right off. The whole squad, manager, players should have been together discussing how such a gutless, pointless, hopless, talentless performance was allowed to take place. Not flirting with Ferdinand on Twitter having spent the evening with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 to be fair to the lad its not really his fault we were shit is it! not sure if he was with the squad or travelling as a fan or what but im 27 and a lifelong villa fan and if rio had said to me last night fancy going for a meal, ill drive, im pretty sure id have said yeah alright mate and then put some pics on twitter too he's done nothing wrong IMO opportunity of a life time and he took it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 May have been a bit harsh on him but this monumentally **** me off yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 As for Mr Grealish.... having seen him fawning over Ferdinand on Twitter last night after out 4-0 humping he can **** right off. Maybe ask Kev to ground him for a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 That sounds perfect. At least a week. And no pudding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 There you go then, Kev; ground the lad for a week, and no Ambrosia Rice Puddings. That'll learn him for having fun. Damn it, he's not here for fun! Hey, this discipline-by-proxy lark is fun. Does anyone know Emile Heskey's Dad? I've got some bathroom tiling that needs to been done, and I can't reach the ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 There you go then, Kev; ground the lad for a week, and no Ambrosia Rice Puddings. That'll learn him for having fun. Damn it, he's not here for fun! Hey, this discipline-by-proxy lark is fun. Does anyone know Emile Heskey's Dad? I've got some bathroom tiling that needs to been done, and I can't reach the ceiling. I know I'm being an arse about this so humble apologies Kev. Good luck to Jack in all his future endeavours. If he would like to ram my criticisim down my throat with a hattrick against Sunderland, and then celebrate by mooning MON I would consider myself suitable chastised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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