The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[sidcow]

Gareth Southgate talking about Jack Grealish said " I think he also learned how we like to play without the ball as well and the importance of that in the biggest matches is really key" 

Again there seems to be an implication there that Jack is a bit of a lazy player without the ball. 

Am I missing something with Jack? Are these top level football people seeing something I am missing? 

Jack to me is one of the hardest working forward players without the ball I've ever seen play. 

Why do these accusations keep flying? 

[blandy]

18 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Gareth Southgate talking about Jack Grealish said " I think he also learned how we like to play without the ball as well and the importance of that in the biggest matches is really key" 

I think there are 2 different things. There are the clowns who say he’s lazy without the ball, and then there’s the “how we like to play without the ball” aspect, which is about team shape, who does what, who goes where. - like for example if the centre forward drops to midfield to close someone down, then ‘gate might want one of the wide forwards to move infield...So tactics, not effort.

[Delphinho123]

22 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Gareth Southgate talking about Jack Grealish said " I think he also learned how we like to play without the ball as well and the importance of that in the biggest matches is really key" 

Again there seems to be an implication there that Jack is a bit of a lazy player without the ball. 

Am I missing something with Jack? Are these top level football people seeing something I am missing? 

Jack to me is one of the hardest working forward players without the ball I've ever seen play. 

Why do these accusations keep flying? 

We’re obsessed with labelling players in this country and confining them to certain brackets. It starts at grass roots football. 

For example, with Jack, because of the way he plays, it means he couldn’t possibly be hard working. He’s the talented luxury player that’s great when you’re winning but a liability when you’re losing. 

Of course, that isn’t the case and anyone who watches him knows it isn’t. It’s almost like people are uncomfortable with the fact that he works really hard and gets about the pitch when the team is defending. 

[YouUnastanFren]

Southgate's comments from the last internationals and this time about Grealish being able to "see the way they work" almost seem to imply his England training is somehow at a higher level than the PL clubs these players are all coming from.

He's **** delusional

[Mic09]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

Gareth Southgate talking about Jack Grealish said " I think he also learned how we like to play without the ball as well and the importance of that in the biggest matches is really key" 

Again there seems to be an implication there that Jack is a bit of a lazy player without the ball. 

Am I missing something with Jack? Are these top level football people seeing something I am missing? 

Jack to me is one of the hardest working forward players without the ball I've ever seen play. 

Why do these accusations keep flying? 

Because Southgate is one of the laziest managers.

[Phil Silvers]

57 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Gareth Southgate talking about Jack Grealish said " I think he also learned how we like to play without the ball as well and the importance of that in the biggest matches is really key" 

Again there seems to be an implication there that Jack is a bit of a lazy player without the ball. 

Am I missing something with Jack? Are these top level football people seeing something I am missing? 

Jack to me is one of the hardest working forward players without the ball I've ever seen play. 

Why do these accusations keep flying? 

When with england Jack will be surrounded by a strong team of players, anyone that suggests the coaching will be of a higher standard then he gets at club level are mad, Southgate is a failed club manager, his predecessor was big Sam and his successor will probably be Brucie.

International football is no longer best manager, best players all bleeding to win out of pride for their country, its now about making money. 

[A'Villan]

27 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Gareth Southgate talking about Jack Grealish said " I think he also learned how we like to play without the ball as well and the importance of that in the biggest matches is really key" 

Again there seems to be an implication there that Jack is a bit of a lazy player without the ball. 

Am I missing something with Jack? Are these top level football people seeing something I am missing? 

Jack to me is one of the hardest working forward players without the ball I've ever seen play. 

Why do these accusations keep flying? 

Totally agree, anyone who watches Villa without prejudice or even bias should be noticing Grealish's efforts all over the pitch.

Jack's 18th leaguewide for tackles this season, which clearly says he always wants to be a presence and influence the match as best he can.

However even if the numbers weren't there to back up the argument, it's still clear to see his determination to close down opponents. 

He wants to win. That's been evident for some time now. Our team has benefited greatly from his enthusiasm and desire to have an impact.

There was a time when Grealish was a bit of a nonentity without the ball, but that was a long time ago under different guidance.

I'm assuming back then he didn't really see it as an important aspect for him because it wasn't a focal point for a player in his role, and perhaps it wasn't expected of him.

Southgate is seriously dated and out of touch if he's basing his judgements from those days.

Also if Southgate had any sense he'd at least pose the question if Grealish's perceived liabilities without the ball were consequence of inability or reluctance to perform.

And if he'd asked that question instead of assuming Jack's game to be lacking, Southgate might see he has a player with great potential, and invested some time coaching him.

Unbelievable, and it kind of irks me, because while I don't support England's national team, Grealish deserves inclusion.

[HKP90]

There is so much lazy journalism when it comes to football, though. It's probably because it's so subjective. It may even be because of unconcious bias. I saw Garth Crooks 'team of the week' a couple of days ago, and despite us smashing the champions 7-2, and going unbeaten in the league there were only 2 villa players on it. Those two: Ollie Watkins who scored a hat trick (you could get that from the headlines without even watching the match) and Ross Barkley, who's on loan from a 'proper club'. Fair play they did play well, but even the most cursory glance at stats would have shown that Grealish had at least as much impact as Ross, and if you'd only even seen the highlights you would know that he ran the show. 

Honestly, for whatever reason, I don't think the pundits watch any game in detail unless it involves the big 5. And in our case it did!

[Laughable Chimp]

21 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Totally agree, anyone who watches Villa without prejudice or even bias should be noticing Grealish's efforts all over the pitch.

Jack's 18th leaguewide for tackles this season, which clearly says he always wants to be a presence and influence the match as best he can.

However even if the numbers weren't there to back up the argument, it's still clear to see his determination to close down opponents. 

He wants to win. That's been evident for some time now. Our team has benefited greatly from his enthusiasm and desire to have an impact.

There was a time when Grealish was a bit of a nonentity without the ball, but that was a long time ago under different guidance.

I'm assuming back then he didn't really see it as an important aspect for him because it wasn't a focal point for a player in his role, and perhaps it wasn't expected of him.

Southgate is seriously dated and out of touch if he's basing his judgements from those days.

Also if Southgate had any sense he'd at least pose the question if Grealish's perceived liabilities without the ball were consequence of inability or reluctance to perform.

And if he'd asked that question instead of assuming Jack's game to be lacking, Southgate might see he has a player with great potential, and invested some time coaching him.

Unbelievable, and it kind of irks me, because while I don't support England's national team, Grealish deserves inclusion.

Tbf, its only been 3 games. If you look at last season he's attempted tackles rate is one of the lowest in the league for his the Attacking central midfielder and left wing position. 

[Awol]

There’s a constipated stubbornness to Southgate’s mentality that defies logic. Jack was the highest rated midfielder in Europe last weekend.

The top two foreign managers in the premier league gush about his quality whenever they’re asked. Even the ex player commentators on the Sky/BBC gravy train say the same. Every fan of England with a functioning brain sees it too.

If he doesn’t start as LM or LF I think (hope) serious questions will be asked. 

[TreeVillan]

Southgate is gonna coach the player out of Jack. 

[villalad21]

Even if Jack starts i doubt he will be as great for England. Does anyone have faith in Gareth using him right?

I think Gareth seriously sees him as a winger. Wouldn't surprise me if he told him to hug the touchline and ask him to play as an actual winger.

You need to give Jack full freedom to get the best out of him. 

[TheMelvillan]

just prepare yourselves that the accepted narrative going forward will be that the opportunity to train and play for England has made him a far better player which he couldn't possibly have achieved at lowly old Villa without the genius of Southgate and the  FA

[blandy]

1 hour ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Southgate's comments from the last internationals and this time about Grealish being able to "see the way they work" almost seem to imply his England training is somehow at a higher level than the PL clubs these players are all coming from.

That's one way of looking at it. Another would be that the National side doesn't play the same way Villa play, or any English club side plays, really. So all the players when they first come in need to be able to "see the way they [England] work". Often international games are much more of a mismatch in quality than the Premier League, so England may need for some games to work on having 80% possession, or on having far less of the ball than (say) Spain - and then the team needs to have worked on particular things, like whether wide players track back with the other side's full backs, or whether they move into the space vacated, ready for a counter-attack, for example.

Another thing to add is that a bit like Wayne Rooney used to do, Jack often tries to get the ball back himself - chasing the ball - as a bit of a free spirit and wander wherever on the pitch , and that's absolutely fine if Villa want him to do that, but England might want a more zonal approach, where player(s) don't do that, they instead need to take up particular positions when the ball is lost.

So I don't think Southgate is either bigging himself up, or being critical of Jack in that instance. I do think it's baffling why he hasn't been selected into squads more, other than it being a legacy of an impression Jack gave when he was with the U-21s, which Southgate has struggled to shake off, to his own detriment, perhaps.

[sne]

13 minutes ago, TheMelvillan said:

just prepare yourselves that the accepted narrative going forward will be that the opportunity to train and play for England has made him a far better player which he couldn't possibly have achieved at lowly old Villa without the genius of Southgate and the  FA

Yeah, it'll be a version of the narrative we had under Bruce when playing Tuanzebe out of position at RB for the first couple of weeks made him a better CB. Which was obviously bull and helped cost Bruce the job

[Tomaszk]

16 minutes ago, TheMelvillan said:

just prepare yourselves that the accepted narrative going forward will be that the opportunity to train and play for England has made him a far better player which he couldn't possibly have achieved at lowly old Villa without the genius of Southgate and the  FA

He would have got the van Dijk elevation had he left this summer.

"He's really come on now" bullshit.

[YouUnastanFren]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

That's one way of looking at it. Another would be that the National side doesn't play the same way Villa play, or any English club side plays, really. So all the players when they first come in need to be able to "see the way they [England] work". Often international games are much more of a mismatch in quality than the Premier League, so England may need for some games to work on having 80% possession, or on having far less of the ball than (say) Spain - and then the team needs to have worked on particular things, like whether wide players track back with the other side's full backs, or whether they move into the space vacated, ready for a counter-attack, for example.

Another thing to add is that a bit like Wayne Rooney used to do, Jack often tries to get the ball back himself - chasing the ball - as a bit of a free spirit and wander wherever on the pitch , and that's absolutely fine if Villa want him to do that, but England might want a more zonal approach, where player(s) don't do that, they instead need to take up particular positions when the ball is lost.

So I don't think Southgate is either bigging himself up, or being critical of Jack in that instance. I do think it's baffling why he hasn't been selected into squads more, other than it being a legacy of an impression Jack gave when he was with the U-21s, which Southgate has struggled to shake off, to his own detriment, perhaps.

Eh, I can see what you mean but I definitely think Southgate has this impression that England training is higher intensity than Villa training. 

Here's his quote about Grealish from last time:

"He’s dipped his toes, I think importantly for him he’s had the chance to work with us and see the intensity that we work at."

I don't know for sure whether he's intending to imply it, but I'm definitely inferring that he thinks that is the case from this quote.

[blandy]

1 minute ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Eh, I can see what you mean but I definitely think Southgate has this impression that England training is higher intensity than Villa training. 

Here's his quote about Grealish from last time:

"He’s dipped his toes, I think importantly for him he’s had the chance to work with us and see the intensity that we work at."

I don't know for sure whether he's intending to imply it, but I'm definitely inferring that he thinks that is the case from this quote.

Yeah, fair comment on that quote. I have no idea whether England training or games are higher intensity than Villa PL games. I think when we were in the EFL before promotion, then he'd have been right,  But right now I wouldn't know one way or the other. Or perhaps he's implying England games are lower intensity

 

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Eh, I can see what you mean but I definitely think Southgate has this impression that England training is higher intensity than Villa training. 

Here's his quote about Grealish from last time:

"He’s dipped his toes, I think importantly for him he’s had the chance to work with us and see the intensity that we work at."

I don't know for sure whether he's intending to imply it, but I'm definitely inferring that he thinks that is the case from this quote.

I think Southgate is trying to take the credit for his start to the season. Bielsa takes the credit for us beating Liverpool and Southgate for Jacks performances

We dont even need a coaching staff

[A'Villan]

What's laughable about Southgate's stance on Grealish is that he is constantly rotating players and changing formations, nothing's established in England's setup.

Yet he opts not to include a consistent standout performer who has taken the top two tiers by storm and leads not only his team but those leagues with his contributions. 

It's ridiculous that Southgate justifies Jack's exclusion by saying that Grealish he doesn't meet the criteria for a more central role and Jack's been outdone for the forward roles.

How can he possibly come to such conclusions without calling Grealish up to the squad and having a proper look at him and how he does when asked to play Southgate's way?

The only two who have been consistently included for England recently are Sterling and Kane in a front two or three, the rest is up in the air as much as the formation is.

Baffles me that he's not been given the chance to prove himself on the left of a midfield three, or in an advanced role as an attacking midfielder, even on the left of the front three.

I can understand completely if they play three forwards and Sterling, Kane and Sancho are the favoured starters but surely Grealish keeps them honest along with Rashford.

When going for the win against Denmark Southgate throws on Grealish in for Philllips and I wonder what the shape and tactics were meant to be from there.

It's an opportunity for Grealish but I can't help but feel that it might've been compromised by the managers decision making and strategy.