KentVillan Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: @villa4europe Like I said, I do understand but thanks for repeating yourself.... Well done for adding an extra-level of information behind your reasoning process. Still I understand, movement sure yes it's crap, see I understand But as was said earlier by @KentVillan his theatrics aren't helping us either as we gain nothing from him holding onto the ball so much. He can have some faith in those around him a little more, just a bit. Again it's arrogance on his part if that's the case.... Not what I said at all. My issue is that he gets double / triple marked out of games and teams are happy to foul him constantly. That won’t happen in a better side. The theatrics / arrogance stuff is your own take, and I disagree with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 3 hours ago, KentVillan said: Is anyone gaining anything at the moment? I presumed you were referring to the team during play as you mentioned fouls given against Grealish...so what do you mean is anyone gaining anything at the moment? Every other foul he gains he could easily have stayed on his feet, found a pass or gained a yard on his man he chooses to go down far too easily. The 140 fouls against haven't really helped us gain anything at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, KentVillan said: The theatrics / arrogance stuff is your own take, and I disagree with it. Funny how only the majority of Villa fans think he isn't theatrical or arrogant #subjective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Funny how only the majority of Villa fans think he isn't theatrical or arrogant #subjective I wouldn't argue that he's theatrical, he is, he gets battered all game, when he wants a free kick he buys a free kick What I would argue is that its detrimental to the team, that's insane Its also unfortunately rinse and repeat from whenever he or us loses a bit of form, the old "he slows down play too much" or "he takes too many touches" bollocks rears it's head again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: I presumed you were referring to the team during play as you mentioned fouls given against Grealish...so what do you mean is anyone gaining anything at the moment? Every other foul he gains he could easily have stayed on his feet, found a pass or gained a yard on his man he chooses to go down far too easily. The 140 fouls against haven't really helped us gain anything at all... I meant are we gaining (as a club) from having a player who belongs in a team that is normally playing on the front foot. If you’re in a relegation battle, there’s a lot of value in having a great goalkeeper, centre back, box-to-box mid or (especially) striker. A playmaker / winger who isn’t quick enough to hit teams on the break? Not so much. Just as an example, I don’t think David Silva would achieve much in this Villa side. Some types of player need quality around them. In the Championship, Jack was so far above the level of his opponents, that he could just waltz through teams and win games singlehanded. Here he’s up against quicker, smarter, more tactically disciplined opponents. He belongs in a setup where he won’t be the marked man every week, and where other quality players are moving around him. I disagree that when he gets fouled there is usually an option on. I also disagree that it hasn’t helped us in any way - we’ve picked up points because of red cards, and we’ve scored goals (and created *loads* of missed chances) from set pieces. Without Jack picking up a lot of those fouls, we would have been overrun even more than we have been. I do have a realistic opinion of Jack, I think. He lacks lightning pace, his shooting isn’t quite up there with someone like Maddison, and he could release the ball more quickly. But his touch and passing are really up there with the best. He is an elite footballer and he belongs in a Champions League team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Its also unfortunately rinse and repeat from whenever he or us loses a bit of form, the old "he slows down play too much" or "he takes too many touches" bollocks rears it's head again Why is it bollox? I've often said this even when he is in good form, and we are winning. He could be EVEN better than he is if he improved these parts of his game. It's human nature/common sense that defects will be highlighted less when the team is doing well. I think that pretty much goes for all players. As a matter of fact, Jack is the one player who most are scared to criticise for anything because he is our Golden boy. Then again, if we do criticise the default response is "It's because everybody else is shite". Edited June 30, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Why is it bollox? I've often said this even when he is in good form, and we are winning. He could be EVEN better than he is if he improved these parts of his game. It's human nature/common sense that defects will be highlighted less when the team is doing well. I think that pretty much goes for all players. As a matter of fact, Jack is the one player who most are scared to criticise for anything because he is our Golden boy. Because of you analyse our attacking play as a whole then you'd see that Jack is the least of our trouble 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 54 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: I presumed you were referring to the team during play as you mentioned fouls given against Grealish...so what do you mean is anyone gaining anything at the moment? Every other foul he gains he could easily have stayed on his feet, found a pass or gained a yard on his man he chooses to go down far too easily. The 140 fouls against haven't really helped us gain anything at all... They haven't helped us because refs don't give cards put for fouls on him. We can't keep the ball with a short free kick or play a decent ball in with a long free kick so that isn't his fault. If he doesn't go to ground he probably loses it in the next touch because no one moves for the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 For me Grealish is a fantastic player No doubt. He will go on to much bigger things too I believe and do well on the international scene eventually too. I do question a few things though about his influence as a captain. For me a captain is the role model for the team. Grealish lets himself down too often to be a role model. A captain rallies the troops when the going gets tough. Grealish rolls his eyes throws his hands in the air displaying his exasperation and mutters under his breath at the lack of ability of his teammates. I understand his frustration of course but as a captain you surely have to encourage and direct and occasionally dish out a rollicking but never belittle your colleagues publicly. It’s bad leadership. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted July 1, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, danceoftheshamen said: For me Grealish is a fantastic player No doubt. He will go on to much bigger things too I believe and do well on the international scene eventually too. I do question a few things though about his influence as a captain. For me a captain is the role model for the team. Grealish lets himself down too often to be a role model. A captain rallies the troops when the going gets tough. Grealish rolls his eyes throws his hands in the air displaying his exasperation and mutters under his breath at the lack of ability of his teammates. I understand his frustration of course but as a captain you surely have to encourage and direct and occasionally dish out a rollicking but never belittle your colleagues publicly. It’s bad leadership. I'll never forget Southgate encouraging Gary Charles constantly when he was playing right back. Southgate would applaud everything he did and encouraged him when he messed up. It was obvious Charles's confidence was shot and the crowd got nervous whenever he had the ball. Never the same after his ankle injury which kept him out for two years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 1, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 1, 2020 12 hours ago, villa4europe said: Out of contract next summer and there's the 6 month thing for foreign clubs, bayern could have signed him up in jan Does now mean that with sane and silva gone grealish is a good fit for City Been saying all season he’ll go to City. He’s a perfect fit for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Criticism here is OTT, some think its like FIFA that Jack can stroll through a defence and bang it in top corner. Look at even Messi now, he is still Barcelona best player but he is playing with probably the shittest Barcelona team he played for and due to this in away games he is not looking as threatening when his team mates are clueless. Not to mention we played 3 of the best defences in the league in the last week plus Chelsea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 10 hours ago, villa4europe said: Because of you analyse our attacking play as a whole then you'd see that Jack is the least of our trouble That doesn't mean there aren't areas of his game he needs to work on does it? I said earlier, he is still our best player, but jeez if he'd just gone against the norm this one time during lockdown and got himself into mega shape for the run in and come back firing instead of partying with his mates and coming back needing 6 games to get going we'd probably have 2 wins now and be nearly safe. It's incredibly frustrating because if he'd just been about 20% less Jack Grealish and more James Milner during lockdown we'd probably be in a much healthier position now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Partying? I am pretty sure training wasn't allowed to resume for 2 months after his incident 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, weedman said: That doesn't mean there aren't areas of his game he needs to work on does it? I said earlier, he is still our best player, but jeez if he'd just gone against the norm this one time during lockdown and got himself into mega shape for the run in and come back firing instead of partying with his mates and coming back needing 6 games to get going we'd probably have 2 wins now and be nearly safe. It's incredibly frustrating because if he'd just been about 20% less Jack Grealish and more James Milner during lockdown we'd probably be in a much healthier position now 1 night in 3 months of no football... not sure why villa fans are so quick to throw him under the bus, there is no indication that his poor form has anything to do with fitness let alone because he spent the break partying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Been saying all season he’ll go to City. He’s a perfect fit for them Hope he does, would be very interesting to see how good a player he could become under Pep and his coaches. City is also a club I have no emotions about. Obviously I hope we stay up and he stays here but don't see either of that happening. If he goes to City I also hope Pep stays which is not 100% certain yet. I want him to end up somewhere where they develop and improve players rather than just somewhere they offer big wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 1, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, sne said: Hope he does, would be very interesting to see how good a player he could become under Pep and his coaches. City is also a club I have no emotions about. Obviously I hope we stay up and he stays here but don't see either of that happening. If he goes to City I also hope Pep stays which is not 100% certain yet. I want him to end up somewhere where they develop and improve players rather than just somewhere they offer big wages. Just imagine him with the space and passing options he’d get at City. I’m convinced he’d be regarded as one of the best players in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Just imagine him with the space and passing options he’d get at City. I’m convinced he’d be regarded as one of the best players in the league. Yeah, a year or 2 under Pep and the sky is the limit. Big ask to fill David Silvas booths but with time he could become really, really good. Silva being one of the best players of the decade in the PL IMO Edited July 1, 2020 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, villa4europe said: 1 night in 3 months of no football... not sure why villa fans are so quick to throw him under the bus, there is no indication that his poor form has anything to do with fitness let alone because he spent the break partying OK so you believe that he only went out partying one time and just got super unlucky it also happened to be the one time he crashed his car and got caught on camera, I personally don't think that was the only time he was out partying. Its not exactly a secret he likes a drink is it? I have no issue with people's personal lives, but there's a reason it takes him so long to get up to speed compared with other, more professional players, and when our position is so precarious and he's so important to our team it would have been nice if he'd bucked that trend on this one occasion It's a little annoying but not really a big deal at the start of the season, 5/6 average games where he's still at least close to being our best player in a 38 game season isn't bad, 5/6 games in a post lockdown 10 game fight for survival is far more of an issue, and that's where people's frustration is coming from. We needed him firing straight away, he wasn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 the difference is I don't think his poor form is related to poor fitness as a result of not looking after himself during the lockdown I don't believe in the head turned stuff either, or that he's already signed a deal somewhere if you said he's in poor form due to low confidence or unhappiness or because of the realisation that everyone else around him is shit and villa are doomed and it will be placed at his feet because fans think he's roy of the rovers then I think you'd have a stronger point or maybe he's just out of form because that's kind of what footballers do... my problem is I don't get my fans are so keen to kick him while he's down rather than try and drag him back up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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