TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 hours ago, blandy said: Yes. He was seemingly not socially isolating, as per Gov't and club instruction. His car was damaged in an incident where the driver hit parked cars. He's behaved like an utter idiot. Once the car damage was done, he behaved correctly in exchanging details. Overall he's done some serious damage to what was a changed reputation. He'd gone from an irresponsible Jack the Lad, mixing with the wrong people, to a model captain. And now he's gone back to the old, wreckless fool, misbehaving, irresponsible, astoundingly dumb. It's not a hanging offence, it's just really really stupid. Who you are and how you act as a person matters, especially people in the public eye. It's nothing to do with being an extraordinarily gifted footballer. It's about being a good human. He is a good human, but he's been an utter idiot. Pretty much right Pete.....but being an utter idiot in a responsible job has consequences....his misdemeanor is not in works time or while he is doing his job, but your brain/judgement does not go on hold, it is with you all of the time When this has all blown over, one thing will remain, his character and maturity has been put in to question.....and that will take some time to repair. I have never been overly struck on him being captain, He is no Dennis Mortimer in those terms, he does not exude an ability to rally or demand from other players, and it does seriously question his ability to lead the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stratvillan Posted March 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 hours ago, VillaBrum said: At 24 I was in the Army, surrounded by other 24 year old. We had matured by that age and knew what any negative actions of ours might have on those around us. We also respected any legal or moral rules that were in force. This talk of "he's only 24" tells us how far the human race has progressed (we are going backwards as we age, not forward). I agree that 24 year olds should be mature enough to act morally and legally. To cite the army as an example of this in action is strange. It is hardly the epitome of morality and legality. The same as Jack's actions arent. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: This is it. He's going to have to suck up being a punchbag for a long time and he deserves it. As it is quiet, there's some people really whipping themselves up trying to be upset in different ways. The stuff about young people being a problem is pure old man yells at cloud. I think that is taking a hammer to crack a nut. There is more than old folk, pissed off with his behaviour.....There a millions of sensible young folk who are as responsible as any generation and then there are idiots. I have been in company like he is keeping and tasted the bright lights and women on tap......so I know his world very well. His so called mates are ex and failed footballers, who have nothing to lose and scant regard for his profile, he needs to surround himself with fun loving but solid based characters who have respect for him. Its idiots we are talking about, not young people carte blanche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 41 minutes ago, TRO said: Personally, I wouldn't want to set myself up as defying the best medical experts in the country and thats where the Government get their advice I thought you were anti expert? I vividly remember a conversation we had during the transfer window where you laughed off people trusting experts. What is different about these experts that they should be trusted when generally you are against the concept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 hours ago, markavfc40 said: I see him ever being made captain is being questioned by some. I don't see how anyone could dispute he has led by example on the pitch over the last couple of years and never failed to give his all. He was a huge reason as to why we got promoted last season and arguably 95% of the reason we still have a chance of staying up this season and aren't already down. It is one thing being the best player but his performances on the pitch have gone beyond ability and he has led by example in terms of effort. After this misdemeanour it will be his off field, not match day or training, behaviour that will potentially lose him that captaincy. That shouldn't diminish what he has done for the club, and how he has led the team, on the field though. What he has done, he has done, he can bank that and all thanks to him.....he is and always will be a wonderful footballer and has worked so hard to be that. He is the best player in general in the team and with that ability he carries the flag and I will grant you he does lead by example....but you can't do it all on your own. I don't think Jack is a natural leader in the vein of Billy Bremner, Dennis Mortimer, Steven Gerrard or Graeme Souness, he is no Dave Mackay ( not talking his football style talking leadership).......those leaders didn't just lead by example, they rallied the troops and got everry last drop of energy out their team.....I don't think Jack can do that. That isn't Jack and never will be, he hasn't got the natural traits to do it and that is an observation, not a criticism.....you can't help being what you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 39 minutes ago, TRO said: Personally, I wouldn't want to set myself up as defying the best medical experts in the country and thats where the Government get their advice......There is bound to be exceptions in a 65 million population, with a varying batch of personalities and intellect.....but I find it self serving to say the rest of the country have sacrificed their liberty in aid of suppressing a killer disease and then for some to say "well most of the country is doing it, so I will say san fairy ann to the rules...one don't matter." Its not for each individual to be judge and jury on this pandemic......its just a simple case of doing as we are told, by people much better equipped intellectually, to tell us.................... without question. I guess some folk just can't do as they are told, despite the consequences. Top post. Latest figures state that nearly 400 have died in the uk today from coronavirus. We are not at our peak yet. Everybody has to abide by the govt regulations. To argue that other footballers have done worse in the past doesn’t matter or that many people die of normal flu. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, TRO said: What he has done, he has done, he can bank that and all thanks to him.....he is and always will be a wonderful footballer and has worked so hard to be that. He is the best player in general in the team and with that ability he carries the flag and I will grant you he does lead by example....but you can't do it all on your own. I don't think Jack is a natural leader in the vein of Billy Bremner, Dennis Mortimer, Steven Gerrard or Graeme Souness, he is no Dave Mackay ( not talking his football style talking leadership).......those leaders didn't just lead by example, they rallied the troops and got everry last drop of energy out their team.....I don't think Jack can do that. That isn't Jack and never will be, he hasn't got the natural traits to do it and that is an observation, not a criticism.....you can't help being what you are. You have set quite a high bar there especially the one captain you named of ours being the one to lift the greatest trophy in the clubs history. There is no set way to captain a side is there. Jordan Henderson is no Steven Gerrard for example. Just a few off the top of my head over the last 30 years who have captained us Platt, Richardson, Townsend, Southgate, Barry, Petrov, Delph, Chester. I don't know from the observations we make as supporters how many of them we would class as natural leaders. I guess when a manager makes a decision on who to make captain he can only choose from what he has available and I guess Smith has decided Grealish is the most suitable for that role. If he had a Mortimer, Bremner or Gerrard in the squad he possibly would have decided differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: I thought you were anti expert? I vividly remember a conversation we had during the transfer window where you laughed off people trusting experts. What is different about these experts that they should be trusted when generally you are against the concept? I genuinely don't know what you are talking about and haven't a clue what line you are on....I can't remember the context in which you refer, but its clearly a selective comparison. I may have questioned THEIR expertise, but that is quite different from questioning ANY expert advice.....Where you have put those two together, i have no idea. but Are you comparing scientists who are dealing with scientific evidence versus a Dof in a football club? I think your deduction of my stance on experts in general is flawed and I have never intimated that I am against " experts " .....I think you have got the wrong end of the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: You have set quite a high bar there especially the one captain you named of ours being the one to lift the greatest trophy in the clubs history. There is no set way to captain a side is there. Jordan Henderson is no Steven Gerrard for example. Just a few off the top of my head over the last 30 years who have captained us Platt, Richardson, Townsend, Southgate, Barry, Petrov, Delph, Chester. I don't know from the observations we make as supporters how many of them we would class as natural leaders. I guess when a manager makes a decision on who to make captain he can only choose from what he has available and I guess Smith has decided Grealish is the most suitable for that role. If he had a Mortimer, Bremner or Gerrard in the squad he possibly would have decided differently. I agree....so if thats the case....he should go out and get one. I do set the bar high, but if I said lesser names, you might not know who they are. I don't think captain is just a bolt on title.....you have to get players who can operate that role and inspire players during a game. as you may well know by now Mark, I don't accept the status quo very easily......strive to be better is the name of the game for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Stratvillan said: I agree that 24 year olds should be mature enough to act morally and legally. To cite the army as an example of this in action is strange. It is hardly the epitome of morality and legality. The same as Jack's actions arent. Not to mention in the Army pretty much every move and decision you make is dictated by someone above you, not from mature decision making based or life experiences. So I agree, it was a nonsensical remark from the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 [Hey, Jack, relax! The pressure's coming off! There's a big row brewing about the Army & the character of the people within it!] 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 31, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 hours ago, TRO said: I think that is taking a hammer to crack a nut. There is more than old folk, pissed off with his behaviour.....There a millions of sensible young folk who are as responsible as any generation and then there are idiots. I have been in company like he is keeping and tasted the bright lights and women on tap......so I know his world very well. His so called mates are ex and failed footballers, who have nothing to lose and scant regard for his profile, he needs to surround himself with fun loving but solid based characters who have respect for him. Its idiots we are talking about, not young people carte blanche Indeed, drink driving seems to be much more as off limits for most young uns. A lot of the very old generation don't even think it's a problem and a good deal of middle age people think it's a bit naughty but (especially if no one is hurt) just one of those things. Obviously I am generalising here, plenty of young drink drive and plenty of old abhor it, but as a general attitude across the generations I think this holds true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 47 minutes ago, R.Bear said: Not to mention in the Army pretty much every move and decision you make is dictated by someone above you, not from mature decision making based or life experiences. So I agree, it was a nonsensical remark from the poster. I think he was referring to the character they built.....they do make the decisions during the character building programme, with a view to you eventually being in a position to make your own at that level....thats where you learn. I thought in terms of discipline, which is what the debate centred around or lack of it it Jacks Case.....I thought the Army was a good example. Some would say National Service was a good platform for instilling discipline in young men.....some of course never needed it, mainly those with a fair share of common sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, sidcow said: Indeed, drink driving seems to be much more as off limits for most young uns. A lot of the very old generation don't even think it's a problem and a good deal of middle age people think it's a bit naughty but (especially if no one is hurt) just one of those things. Obviously I am generalising here, plenty of young drink drive and plenty of old abhor it, but as a general attitude across the generations I think this holds true. I think in general its a fair comment. I guess some of us old uns remember, pre -drink drive years....where as the younger generation were brought up with it. I think you make a worthwhile point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Well, Jack has certainly got VT moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 “It’s time for national service lads so get some in” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Just now, PaulC said: “It’s time for national service lads so get some in” Dads Army for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 31, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Dads Army for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 31, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, sne said: BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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