sir_gary_cahill Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: After 2/3rds of a season in the Premier League with us "he's earnt the right to go where he chooses" Is he a Legend as well? I think you are spot on, he isn’t a legend yet, very few are at 24 years old. In reality, he has done very little so far but he has shown potential to be a legend. Edited February 28, 2020 by sir_gary_cahill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Jack is a legend. He single handedly got us promoted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Jack is a legend. He single handedly got us promoted. If Grealish is already a legend, what title would you give to the likes of Cowans who lifted the European Cup and First Division as it was known then? If you call Grealish a legend, it is disrespectful to past greats in my opinion Edited February 28, 2020 by sir_gary_cahill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: If Grealish is already a legend, what title would you give to the likes of Cowans who lifted the European Cup and First Division as it was known then? If you call Grealish a legend, it is disrespectful to past greats in my opinion Football is a team sport. Cowans played in a great team and was a fine player. Jack plays is a poor team and is a very good player. The team doesn't have to win anything in order to call an individual in it a legend. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: If Grealish is already a legend, what title would you give to the likes of Cowans who lifted the European Cup and First Division as it was known then? If you call Grealish a legend, it is disrespectful to past greats in my opinion Mate in music, sports, entertainment and so on, I've realised that these days people have no clue was a "legend" or "all time great" is. The words are thrown around like nothing all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 14 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Mate in music, sports, entertainment and so on, I've realised that these days people have no clue was a "legend" or "all time great" is. The words are thrown around like nothing all the time. I think you are correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Football is a team sport. Cowans played in a great team and was a fine player. Jack plays is a poor team and is a very good player. The team doesn't have to win anything in order to call an individual in it a legend. Our other players must hate him, all our attacks go through him, you are calling him a legend already? What if Cowans was playing for us today? (Hypothetically speaking) Would you be calling him a legend too? I don’t know, I never saw Cowans play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Our other players must hate him, all our attacks go through him, you are calling him a legend already? What if Cowans was playing for us today? (Hypothetically speaking) Would you be calling him a legend too? I don’t know, I never saw Cowans play I didn't call him a legend - but saying that players like Cowan's deserve that status but Grealish does not is something I don't agree with. I did not watch Cowans live, but football 30/40 years ago is not comparable to today's sport so for all we know he might be average or not good at all. That's why I don't like people saying Pele is the greatest - he probably isn't because he had 3 seconds to figure out a pass where as a championship player today has 1 second to figure out a pass. Edited February 28, 2020 by Mic09 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I didn't call him a legend - but saying that players like Cowan's deserve that status but Grealish does not is something I don't agree with. I did not watch Cowans live, but football 30/40 years ago is not comparable to today's sport so for all we know he might be average or not good at all. That's why I don't like people saying Pele is the greatest - he probably isn't because he had 3 seconds to figure out a pass where as a championship player today has 1 second to figure out a pass. I think you are correct and you phrased it well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I didn't call him a legend - but saying that players like Cowan's deserve that status but Grealish does not is something I don't agree with. I did not watch Cowans live, but football 30/40 years ago is not comparable to today's sport so for all we know he might be average or not good at all. That's why I don't like people saying Pele is the greatest - he probably isn't because he had 3 seconds to figure out a pass where as a championship player today has 1 second to figure out a pass. Depends on what you define as legend. For me, its less abot the footballer's ability, its what he accomplished that makes him a legend. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaluke Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Our other players must hate him, all our attacks go through him, you are calling him a legend already? What if Cowans was playing for us today? (Hypothetically speaking) Would you be calling him a legend too? I don’t know, I never saw Cowans play why the other players pass to him if they hate him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, villaluke said: why the other players pass to him if they hate him? Because they have no other option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Mic09 said: I didn't call him a legend - but saying that players like Cowan's deserve that status but Grealish does not is something I don't agree with. I did not watch Cowans live, but football 30/40 years ago is not comparable to today's sport so for all we know he might be average or not good at all. That's why I don't like people saying Pele is the greatest - he probably isn't because he had 3 seconds to figure out a pass where as a championship player today has 1 second to figure out a pass. Yeah but PELE and some of those greats like Bobby Moore, Osvaldo Ardiles, Kasimierz Deyna, Paul Van Himst, Mike Summerbee, Hallvar Thoresen, Werner Roth and of course not forgetting Sylvester Stallone- would of been great to see in the premier today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said: Depends on what you define as legend. For me, its less abot the footballer's ability, its what he accomplished that makes him a legend. I think it's both, and you also have to factor in contribution. When David May was at Man Utd he won 6 PL titles, 2 FA Cups and the Champions League. Pretty impressive. Until I went looking for players who had won lots without actually doing that much, (he played 85 games in 9 years apparently) I forgot he was even a footballer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted February 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Mic09 said: That's why I don't like people saying Pele is the greatest - he probably isn't because he had 3 seconds to figure out a pass where as a championship player today has 1 second to figure out a pass. Whilst I agree the game is quicker now. You still have to factor in all the advantages the modern players have over players like Pele and Maradona. Nutrition, sports science and fitness from a personal point of view. From the footy side of things these players were kicked to **** and the refs allowed it they also played on pitches that you would not see in Sunday League. Give them the benefits of today's players and they would be unbelievable. Anyway Jack is top draw makes the game look easy. Roll on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 29, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mic09 said: I did not watch Cowans live, but football 30/40 years ago is not comparable to today's sport so for all we know he might be average or not good at all. That's why I don't like people saying Pele is the greatest - he probably isn't because he had 3 seconds to figure out a pass where as a championship player today has 1 second to figure out a pass. I hate it when people say this. Humans have not evolved new skills or mental abilities in the last 50 years. If players from 40 years ago went through the same levels of training and conditioning as players do today they would be as good as players today. A player from 40 years ago who was light years ahead of anyone else who was playing then would be light years ahead of anyone playing today. You think you could plonk Ronaldo or Messi in their prime in a team from 2050 and they would look like nobodies? Edited February 29, 2020 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said: Depends on what you define as legend. For me, its less abot the footballer's ability, its what he accomplished that makes him a legend. For me it's more about how a player shows loyalty to a club and connections/behaviour towards the club supporters that give a legend status. Obviously it's easier to achieve if you're a good player as well, but Mellberg is up there for me in my life time and he wasn't an exceptional player. But he did the right things. Though to be fair if Jack stayed with this club next season, irrespective of what division we're in, he'd be a legend for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, sidcow said: I hate it when people say this. Humans have not evolved new skills or mental abilities in the last 50 years. If players from 40 years ago went through the same levels of training and conditioning as players do today they would be as good as players today. A player from 40 years ago who was light years ahead of anyone else who was playing then would be light years ahead of anyone playing today. You think you could plonk Ronaldo or Messi in their prime in a team from 2050 and they would look like nobodies? That's why I said "he probably isn't" I think players who stood out 40 years ago, even with today's training and nutrition might not stand out. Many more people play the sport today, more competition, different requirement, and just because Pele was skillfull, it doesn't mean that a well drilled tactical team might have not cancelled him out in today's game, simply because today teams can change formations in a heartbeat using computer science as a guideline of how to play. Not forgetting other elements such as fame that goes with it that turns many great players such as Naymar or Pogba to lesser players. But for all I know, his God given ability might trump all the factors listed above. But maybe not. It's just a different sport - so to me, I can only judge "greatest" for players in the last 20 years and I try not to go further than that. Edited February 29, 2020 by Mic09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) Cowans in his prime would walk into most sides, even today. As would Morley, Shaw, etc. Yeah they would have less time. They would also play on better pitches with a better ball and not be kicked up in the air every 5 minutes. It is right to judge players against their time though. As fun as it is to compare. Jack isn't a legend yet. Not yet. Edited February 29, 2020 by Mazrim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieAitken59 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Charlie Aitken .... true Villa legend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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