tomav84 Posted December 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, Laughable Chimp said: Yeah, but how many of these has happened with players the quality and reputation of Grealish? a few actually. i mentioned rodwell who was quality for everton and actually went one better than jack and got in the england side. many players just click at a club but fail to perform on a bigger stage. many players have smashed it for a so called lesser club and never hit the same standards at a top side. i am not for a minute saying that's going to happen with jack...i truly think he's going to be a legend for us and will be talked about alongside mcgrath and withe...but there have been numerous examples of players who have just clicked at a particular club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, tomav84 said: a few actually. i mentioned rodwell who was quality for everton and actually went one better than jack and got in the england side. many players just click at a club but fail to perform on a bigger stage. many players have smashed it for a so called lesser club and never hit the same standards at a top side. i am not for a minute saying that's going to happen with jack...i truly think he's going to be a legend for us and will be talked about alongside mcgrath and withe...but there have been numerous examples of players who have just clicked at a particular club Rodwell spent 2 seasons with Man City where barely played for them after leaving Everton. I don't think he's really comparable to Grealish at all. In fact, if you want to make that comparison, Grealish would have to go to another club, spend a couple of seasons not playing and then exit the club. I've noticed all your examples seem to be related to players leaving Man City, is it possible this is mostly a Man City thing that they can do because of the amount of money they have? Edited December 2, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, tomav84 said: no...so when a club sells a high earning player, it's quite common that the buying club do not want to pay the wages said player is currently on. therefore, an agreement is put in place for the selling club to pay the rest until the end of the contract (or you just pay the player off). It happened with us when we bought shay given i believe. also with stephen ireland (but think he was just given a chunk of cash by city). in fact a few city players that have not made it there have then been sold on with city paying part of their wages until end of contract i.e rodwell too Surely this predominantly happens where the player is moving to a lesser club and is being paid a substantial amount by a bigger team who want to get rid? If Grealish left us, it wouldn't be to go to, say, Bournemouth who would want to subsidise his £200k/wk contract - he'd be leaving to go to a much bigger team and, more than likely, would be happy to take a pay cut from this hypothetical weekly wage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted December 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2019 Jack Grealish likes this Class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted December 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: I've noticed all your examples seem to be related to players leaving Man City, is it possible this is mostly a Man City thing that they can do because of the amount of money they have? yes, but was just using as examples of where clubs have to subsidise their current wages if they're on a high wage in response to you implying that i thought we'd be loaning jack out 8 minutes ago, bobzy said: Surely this predominantly happens where the player is moving to a lesser club and is being paid a substantial amount by a bigger team who want to get rid? If Grealish left us, it wouldn't be to go to, say, Bournemouth who would want to subsidise his £200k/wk contract - he'd be leaving to go to a much bigger team and, more than likely, would be happy to take a pay cut from this hypothetical weekly wage. i cannot foresee any scenario where any player would go to a bigger club and take a wage cut. it just wouldnt happen. especially with the money that these top sides have nowadays. if, hypothetically, we handed jack a 200k pw contract, he'd want easily that and more if he moved on to say liverpool or city...and they wouldnt pay him that as he would be unproven vs champions league opposition hence we would have to subsidise the rest. anyway...we're not going to be paying jack 200k pw anytime soon, so probably a pointless discussion back on a lighter topic...if we get 30 games out of him this season, we'll be in the premier league next season without question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, tomav84 said: yes, but was just using as examples of where clubs have to subsidise their current wages if they're on a high wage in response to you implying that i thought we'd be loaning jack out i cannot foresee any scenario where any player would go to a bigger club and take a wage cut. it just wouldnt happen. especially with the money that these top sides have nowadays. if, hypothetically, we handed jack a 200k pw contract, he'd want easily that and more if he moved on to say liverpool or city...and they wouldnt pay him that as he would be unproven vs champions league opposition hence we would have to subsidise the rest. anyway...we're not going to be paying jack 200k pw anytime soon, so probably a pointless discussion back on a lighter topic...if we get 30 games out of him this season, we'll be in the premier league next season without question "Hi Jack, we'd really love for you to join from recently relegated Aston Villa, but we can't justify matching your £200k/wk contract - particularly as Mane is on less. Would you be OK with £100k/wk and the chance to compete for the Premier League title as well as European trophies? Await your response. Regards, Liverpool". "No thanks Liverpool. £200k/wk at least or GTFO and I'll stay in the Championship." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Grealish is a level above Rodwell and everybody knows it. Don't judge him on whatever the hell is going on in Gareth Southgate's mind would be my first port of call. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 League is wide open this year. Hope we finish in the top 8 and can convince Jack we're going to break into Europe next year, and sign the players to match that ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, birdman said: I agree and if we finish mid table this season - which will be fantastic - in order to keep Jack I think we are going to have to show some extraordinary intent in the transfer window. Having a player like Jack is both a wonderous and painful thing! The chances of him going to a top club next season are very high. He'll probably end up being the most wanted player in Europe at this rate! I don't think its easy.....but don't under estimate the new owners. They are well funded and have a sense for playing hard ball.....These guys are not like the owners of the past.....These ARE the REAL deal. They know Jacks Value. Edited December 2, 2019 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, KentVillan said: Everything I've heard Southgate say about Grealish suggests to me he doesn't really understand Grealish's game at all. I think in Southgate's mind, Grealish is this luxury, tactically undisciplined player who would damage the precious shape of his team. That's so unfair on a player who actually works incredibly hard defensively and can play three different positions. My biggest fear is that Southgate will read too much into the qualification performances - against some really poor teams - and not think enough about what sort of player is needed to win a Euro semi-final or final. If we're going into those Euros without options like Grealish in the squad, then Southgate is a headcase, and deserves everything coming his way. My biggest concern is that Southgate is stubborn and the more pressure fans/pundits/media put on him to include Jack the more he will dig in and refuse. Of course I could be making up crap like this in my head lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted December 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2019 Biggest problem with jack, on form........it makes most of your other players look shite 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said: I don't understand this. Are you thinking that clubs will try to loan Jack and only pay 40% of his wages? In the event we do go down, there will be a lot of suitors for Jack and we will have the leverage if it comes down to it. Clubs will pay top money for a top English midfielder, we don't have to be forced to accept a stupid loan deal like that. We ain't going down. There is too much going on at our club in terms of spirit and progression to go down.....We have the talent and desire, just need to cut out silly errors that are undermining all the good work....especially at the far post, its clear as a bell, the vulnerbaility....that is fixable, do that and we go up a massive gear. Overall we are improving, its clear......but its the silly frustrating stuff to eradicate. Edited December 2, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TRO said: We ain't going down. There is too much going on at our club in terms of spirit and progression to go down.....We have the talent and desire, just need to cut out silly errors that are undermining all the good work....especially at the far post, its clear as a bell, the vulnerbaility....that is fixable, do that and we go up a massive gear. Overall we are improving, its clear......but its the silly frustrating stuff to eradicate. Anything can happen tbh. Maybe a crazy injury crisis, or maybe things are just refusing to click for some reason. We're a recently promoted club and as I've said before in other threads, we are not entitled to anything in this league. Is it likely? Tbh, I don't think so, but it is definitely too soon to disqualify it from the realm of reasonable possibility and a lot can change in a short amount of time. Edited December 2, 2019 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, tinker said: Biggest problem with jack, on form........it makes most of your other players look shite To be fair, most of them must be. I mean, we have this player that almost everyone says is completely on another level to most of our squad. He could play right at the top level. Yet we're 15th? It doesn't say great things about our other players at all. We'd easily be down in the bottom 3 without him. Edited December 2, 2019 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Anything can happen tbh. Maybe a crazy injury crisis, or maybe things are just refusing to click for some reason. We're a recently promoted club and as I've said before in other threads, we are not entitled to anything in this league. Is it likely? Tbh, I don't think so, but it is definitely too soon to disqualify it from the realm of reasonable possibility and a lot can change in a short amount of time. yeah...I accept that. No we are not entitled to anything and more importantly, I hope we play like we are not entitled to anything.....We have fell for that trick in the past. Thats why some of the so called top teams are in trouble, they have forgot how to compete and battle for stuff. But I want us to become hard nosed and defiant.....I know we did that after conceding 2 avoidable goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: To be fair, most of them must be. I mean, we have this player that almost every says is completely on another level to most of our squad. He could play right at the top level. Yet we're 15th? It doesn't say great things about our other players at all. We'd easily be down in the bottom 3 without him. That is precisiely my point. I don't want to labour it.....but we need reinforcements of a merchantable nature. I think its the players from the bench that are the most worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: League is wide open this year. Hope we finish in the top 8 and can convince Jack we're going to break into Europe next year, and sign the players to match that ambition. Jack is good enough to drag us there. We're not talking about it much, but if he's as good as we all think and he stays fit, why not top 8? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Davkaus said: To be fair, most of them must be. I mean, we have this player that almost everyone says is completely on another level to most of our squad. He could play right at the top level. Yet we're 15th? It doesn't say great things about our other players at all. We'd easily be down in the bottom 3 without him. He has hit top gear in the last 9 games I think starting with Arsenal away. In that time we are W3 D2 L4. That's 11 points. Good enough for 10th in the form table. He has missed two of them, both we lost admittedly but we did well against Liverpool without him. It's way too early to judge the squad as a whole but yes, Grealish is special. That we know. Edited December 2, 2019 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Jack is good enough to drag us there. We're not talking about it much, but if he's as good as we all think and he stays fit, why not top 8? I'm very heartened by our run in December and even beyond that. Really hoping we can get 2 good results this week to give us the platform to kick on and tackle this upcoming favourable run. Top 8 is really not out of reach at all, and we'll be hitting our stride as a team during a very nice run of fixtures. We won't have back to back matches against City and Liverpool anymore, and after Chelsea, all of the traditional top 6 bar Liverpool will have to come to VP. If Jack stays fit, why not? It really hinges on what we do next summer and what we can promise Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, tomav84 said: no...so when a club sells a high earning player, it's quite common that the buying club do not want to pay the wages said player is currently on. therefore, an agreement is put in place for the selling club to pay the rest until the end of the contract (or you just pay the player off). It happened with us when we bought shay given i believe. also with stephen ireland (but think he was just given a chunk of cash by city). in fact a few city players that have not made it there have then been sold on with city paying part of their wages until end of contract i.e rodwell too First if grealish goes he will be on ridiculous wages because he is that good. 2nd because there will be so many suitors we won't have to pay that because that takes out of our signing fee. Say it is 50 thousand a week difference that is 2.6 mill a year. Why would we sell grealish in a scenario we are essentially giving the club an additional 7.5million. Hardly a smart maneuver and would never happen to us under our current administration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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