The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[LakotaDakota]

53 minutes ago, Five Ken McNaughts said:

I do appreciate your technical efforts, @LakotaDakota, even if we don't quite see it the same way. However, I think a court would be asked to disregard all the clips that begin AFTER the impact. That is really not fair and just ends up playing tricks on the eye (your most recent clip looks more like something that might do the rounds on other clubs' message boards and give a completely false impression of Jack's actions). Your clip that is headed "closer to real speed" is the only one that gives fair evidence. It shows Jack's entire body being catapulted to the right by Cahill's impact on his thigh, with the exception of the one part of his body BENEATH the point of impact – his lower left leg. I rather suspect his left leg stopped moving "naturally" because of the aforementioned massive impact (which flipped Gary Cahill over like a bowling pin)

I know, just seems to be the only thing I can see that could possibly even indicate something untoward on his part that could cause an official to question it. Genuinely think his boot just skids on the wet surface as he is going down but if friend is running takes a quick glance at zaha or across the line to see if a flag goes up etc it could just be this is what he saw whilst focusing back on grealish & simultaniuosly having his own view slightly obscured. From the initial zaha shove to the ball crossing the goal line is only about 4 seconds so even if he blinked or something it removes a portion of this time. Not trying to defend friend or anything as I think he got it completely wrong but if you work on the assumption that refs in general do not actively cheat he must have seen something that made up his mind, this leg movement is the only possible explanation I can see.

[Five Ken McNaughts]

Well, fair enough. Though I have put that assumption about refs not actively cheating on hold for now  

[KentVillan]

5 hours ago, Ginko said:

’Honestly? Mainly it’s the shin pads thing. Totally unprofessional. And his hair too. That and he’s always going out getting pissed on holiday and posting it on social media.’

God some football fans are sad, pompous idiots.

[Keyblade]

14 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

God some football fans are sad, pompous idiots.

Sounds like jealousy all around to me tbh.

Jealousy from Blues and Baggies etc fans who wish their best players weren't cloggers but also from people who deep down wished they were Jack. 

[Lord Willard]

12 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

closer to real speed

All I can see here is a player getting his pass off, then gets clattered. The ref should be playing advantage, especially knowing VAR will rule out a goal if a foul is commited

[Zatman]

9 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Sounds like jealousy all around to me tbh.

Jealousy from Blues and Baggies etc fans who wish their best players weren't cloggers but also from people who deep down wished they were Jack. 

sure when he was assaulted a lot of the comments were that it was horrible but he had it coming or it couldnt have happened to a nicer guy. This was from fans of Premier League teams not just Championship clubs. If he does an interview posted on social media its the same type of comments posted.

I am a bit baffled by the hatred especially from teams that have probably never seen him play live

[KenjiOgiwara]

What just annoys the crap out of me is VAR. Referees have a difficult job, and even if Friend was awful beyond comparison, we have now implemented VAR and there's a referee watching it in slow motion. How any VAR referee can say a clear and obvious mistake wasn't made is effing unreal. 

[Five Ken McNaughts]

The way Cahill throws out his arms and then his left leg, creating a "wall", no part of which gets anywhere near the ball as he brings Jack down... (again, thanks to @LakotaDakota for that particular clip). In the women's World Cup version of VAR, that's a penalty and a yellow for Cahill all day long. Yet in the Premier League version of VAR it's "no reason to overturn the 'dive' decision". Seriously, what the hell is happening this season? Then we have Dele Alli doing an absolute Superman dive against Arsenal – with a foot of clear daylight between him and the defender – while the ref and VAR couldn't care less and the commentator gives it the old "to be fair he got straight back up" (yeah, it's called embarrassment, mate). But how can we expect any better from our officials when a PL ref of 11 years, Peter Walton, can sit on the BT Sport sofa and say "Definitely the right call – Grealish was clearly trying to buy a foul" while half a dozen ex-pros laugh at him in disbelief? Premier League officiating is the laughing stock of the world right now. 

[bannedfromHandV]

I am not excusing Friend at all here - he made an error, simple as (the fact that he seemed to have a hard on for us the whole game doesn't help him either).

However (tin hat on).

Jack goes to ground too often and too easily, he's done it for a long time now and it's a contributor to his 'most fouled' tag (the other contributor being that he gets fouled a lot). If he hadn't thrown his leg out at an unnatural (and unncessary) angle in the challenge with Cahill he'd have unlikely been penalised.

Lessons to be learnt for all from this I feel.

[sidcow]

35 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I am not excusing Friend at all here - he made an error, simple as (the fact that he seemed to have a hard on for us the whole game doesn't help him either).

However (tin hat on).

Jack goes to ground too often and too easily, he's done it for a long time now and it's a contributor to his 'most fouled' tag (the other contributor being that he gets fouled a lot). If he hadn't thrown his leg out at an unnatural (and unncessary) angle in the challenge with Cahill he'd have unlikely been penalised.

Lessons to be learnt for all from this I feel.

You literally made me laugh out loud then.  Well done you.

[Keyblade]

Like I said before, I don't see any leg dangling there. Contrary to what it may look like sometimes, Jack cannot in fact walk on air and he is clearly planting his left foot so he can make the pass.

It doesn't even matter where he planted his foot really because it was his thigh that got taken out and as @Five Ken McNaughts rightly points out, the way his body above the point of impact lurches forward makes it look like his left leg was dangling but at the time of contact it was anything but.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I am not excusing Friend at all here - he made an error, simple as (the fact that he seemed to have a hard on for us the whole game doesn't help him either).

However (tin hat on).

Jack goes to ground too often and too easily, he's done it for a long time now and it's a contributor to his 'most fouled' tag (the other contributor being that he gets fouled a lot). If he hadn't thrown his leg out at an unnatural (and unncessary) angle in the challenge with Cahill he'd have unlikely been penalised.

Lessons to be learnt for all from this I feel.

I think he was looking for it a little bit the way he fell but he clearly jumped straight back up again so tried to continue with the game.

I can see why Friend thought he dived but it’s inexcusable to blow the whistle straight away when they have been clearly briefed that they need to let play continue so VAR can be used. That’s what winds me up the most. 

[bannedfromHandV]

3 hours ago, sidcow said:

You literally made me laugh out loud then.  Well done you.

Okay thanks, wasn't intended as comedy but cheers.

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think he was looking for it a little bit the way he fell but he clearly jumped straight back up again so tried to continue with the game.

I can see why Friend thought he dived but it’s inexcusable to blow the whistle straight away when they have been clearly briefed that they need to let play continue so VAR can be used. That’s what winds me up the most. 

Absolutely - I'm not saying that Jack was even asking for a penalty.

To reiterate - the blame lies entirely with the referee for his incompetence but, if Jack hadn't thrown his leg out in a totally unnatural way then I don't think we'd even be having this debate and we'd be on 4 points now.

I love watching JG play as much as the next fan but seriously, if you don't think he goes to ground easily at times and is looking for fouls then you have a serious case of rosetintedspectacleitis (not aimed at you Vive)

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think he was looking for it a little bit the way he fell but he clearly jumped straight back up again so tried to continue with the game.

I can see why Friend thought he dived but it’s inexcusable to blow the whistle straight away when they have been clearly briefed that they need to let play continue so VAR can be used. That’s what winds me up the most. 

So he looked for it, but then got back up straight away and didn't look for it? It's one or the other. 

Also there was nothing unnatural about either of his legs. He didn't stick it out, or stick it back or do anything other than plant his foot for that split second he needed before he made the pass before he was cleaned out right after. There are multiple high quality gifs in this thread in varying speeds. You could argue the way he fell was exaggerated (I'd argue against that but it's an understandable position) but to suggest he stuck out a leg is just not true. Just scroll down on the gifs to the point where you only see his legs. I don't see any unnatural movements.

[TRO]

On 04/09/2019 at 16:53, LakotaDakota said:

If anything i would say watching it in slowmo like that you can see even more why he gave it as a dive.

The one single angle of video where it actually looks like a dive happens to be exactly where Friend was standing. I have clipped the vid above to emphasise it, It is his left leg above anything else, Sure he's off balance and going down anyway but then his left leg just shoots out to the side and looks completely unnatural.

Honestly if i was standing 5 yards behind that i would probably think he dived or at the very least chucked his leg out looking for some additional contact of some sort.

If Friend hadn't blown a second later and henri had time to put the ball in the net then VAR would have checked, saw that there was enough contact to see he probably didn't dive and the goal would have stood

 

The thing for me is.....everybody and his grand mother has seen it and thinks the ref got it wrong.

The best bit of defensive work by ex ref Bobby Madley says he makes a point of not commenting of refs decisions.....He said it was a very tough one to call, I accept that,so here the thing. 

It was clear before Cahill got involved that Zaha shoved him in the back, that is not a legal challenge, so when the whole world is either sure it was not a dive and others are unsure.......why was he so sure he had to give it,when the unsure option was let play flow.

To give decisions you have to be sure otherwise you let play run........It seems to me he is the only human being that was sure, Jack Dived.....very,very dubious.

[TRO]

18 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

I know, just seems to be the only thing I can see that could possibly even indicate something untoward on his part that could cause an official to question it. Genuinely think his boot just skids on the wet surface as he is going down but if friend is running takes a quick glance at zaha or across the line to see if a flag goes up etc it could just be this is what he saw whilst focusing back on grealish & simultaniuosly having his own view slightly obscured. From the initial zaha shove to the ball crossing the goal line is only about 4 seconds so even if he blinked or something it removes a portion of this time. Not trying to defend friend or anything as I think he got it completely wrong but if you work on the assumption that refs in general do not actively cheat he must have seen something that made up his mind, this leg movement is the only possible explanation I can see.

but if had not of given it, would he not have been in a safer place to defend his decision by saying he was unsure.....most folk would have accepted that.

i.e the foul by Tielmans is one example... that the ref should have issued a red, for an over the top challenge, but was unsure, so he didn't.....its the complete reverse psychology of our decision.

In my opinion, Kevin Friend could not be sure Jack Dived and was influenced by other sources other than the incident itself, is my suspicion.

Diving is a difficult call to make, but it my opinion it is different to going to ground when physical contact has been made illegally.....Going to ground with no contact is a dive......going to ground after being fouled is aiding the referee to make the right decision.....Kevin Friend for me took sides and came down in favour of 2 players who were in contact with Jack illegally.

I accept there are quarters who think Jack goes to ground easily.....but that should not have been a consideration here.....its not about reputations preceding players.....the incident should have been judged on its own merits alone. I am not sure it was.

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

18 hours ago, Five Ken McNaughts said:

Well, fair enough. Though I have put that assumption about refs not actively cheating on hold for now  

I don't think they actively cheat in the true sense of the word......but I think their decisions get influenced by elements of criteria, which shouldn't affect that judgement, but do.

 

[tinker]

He played the ball before the challenge from Cahill , how did him falling over change play? It didn't , ref got it wrong 

[Vive_La_Villa]

50 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

So he looked for it, but then got back up straight away and didn't look for it? It's one or the other. 

Also there was nothing unnatural about either of his legs. He didn't stick it out, or stick it back or do anything other than plant his foot for that split second he needed before he made the pass before he was cleaned out right after. There are multiple high quality gifs in this thread in varying speeds. You could argue the way he fell was exaggerated (I'd argue against that but it's an understandable position) but to suggest he stuck out a leg is just not true. Just scroll down on the gifs to the point where you only see his legs. I don't see any unnatural movements.

I think as soon as he felt contact he went down so it was a probably a foul. I think it’s come a little natural to him to wait for the contact to win a freekick or penalty.  

So the ref should have either played on or gave a freekick or penalty. 

Edit: I have to admit at the time I thought he may have dived but I was waiting for VAR to clear it all up one way or another. The fact VAR wasn’t even allowed to look at it because the idiot had blown his whistle was sickening.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa