Rob182 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I kind of see what @sir_gary_cahill is saying. I don’t agree that he’s been found out, but I also don’t think he’s been anywhere near his usual levels for us. I’ve seen people talk about the assist against Bournemouth being amazing, but in my opinion, it wasn’t. Yes, he pulls players out of position, but almost all wide players with something about them will do the same. Had El Ghazi played that assist, I don’t think people would be praising it half as much. That goal was just Douglas’ brilliance. That said, I DO think Jack has been influential for us, just not as central in our play as he was last season. I’ve said it before, Jack seems to be reluctant to dribble past players in the Prem like he did in the Championship. I hope he gets the confidence to utilise all of his talents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Any Tom, Dick or Harry wouldn't have the awareness or speed of thought to survey the situation and play the quick free quick. He also drew the foul to get the free kick by winning the ball and dribbling past 2 players. It's always been like this, even in the Championship. Jack excels at getting the "assist for the assist". He starts all of our dangerous moves. We wouldn't have scored that goal if it weren't for Jack starting that move. People think if he's not flashy or scoring goals and getting assists then he's not doing anything. We saw this in the Championship too. As soon as he was out of the team, we realized how important he was. We wouldn't have got promoted without him, but if you were to believe some of the people on here last season, he was ineffective and overrated. After the Bournemouth match, he became the first player to lose 20 straight matches in the Premier League. What does that say about the player? It is not the Jack Grealish show, it is a team game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: After the Bournemouth match, he became the first player to lose 20 straight matches in the Premier League. What does that say about the player? It is not the Jack Grealish show, it is a team game You're contradicting yourself, if it's a team game, why bring up that individual stat? It says nothing about the player. He was a teenager coming off the bench for multiple, terrible relegation threatened teams for the vast majority of those 20 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Rob182 said: I kind of see what @sir_gary_cahill is saying. I don’t agree that he’s been found out, but I also don’t think he’s been anywhere near his usual levels for us. I’ve seen people talk about the assist against Bournemouth being amazing, but in my opinion, it wasn’t. Yes, he pulls players out of position, but almost all wide players with something about them will do the same. Had El Ghazi played that assist, I don’t think people would be praising it half as much. That goal was just Douglas’ brilliance. That said, I DO think Jack has been influential for us, just not as central in our play as he was last season. I’ve said it before, Jack seems to be reluctant to dribble past players in the Prem like he did in the Championship. I hope he gets the confidence to utilise all of his talents. Nobody said that assist was amazing, just countering the idea that he literally did nothing all game and was "anonymous". He created 6 chances that game, more than any other player that week and also got an assist which contrary to one poster's opinion, was a little bit more than just a lay-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted August 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 24/08/2019 at 08:51, KenjiOgiwara said: Well that says it all. Genuinly can't wait for us to replace him. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, Keyblade said: Nobody said that assist was amazing, just countering the idea that he literally did nothing all game and was "anonymous". He created 6 chances that game, more than any other player that week and also got an assist which contrary to one poster's opinion, was a little bit more than just a lay-off. I think Elmo created something like 4 or 5 chances that week also. Stats obviously don’t explain everything. If by ‘a little bit more than just a lay-off’, you mean that he dribbled towards the oppositions box, drawing a few opposition players towards him, before picking out a teammate outside the box - I’d agree with you. But again, is the above description that impressive? I’ve seen people waxing lyrical about it. Maybe the word ‘amazing’ wasn’t used (I’ll take your word for it), but it was chalked down as another creative ‘key pass created’, which I think is pretty generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Keyblade said: You're contradicting yourself, if it's a team game, why bring up that individual stat? It says nothing about the player. He was a teenager coming off the bench for multiple, terrible relegation threatened teams for the vast majority of those 20 games. When he first broke through under Sherwood, he was great, he played left wing, where I’d seen him for the youth and reserve teams. All of a sudden for some reason he gets moved to central midfield and the games passes him by in the Premier League. Of course, it’s a team game, it is NOT the Jack Grealish show. For some unknown reason, he was made captain, Mings would be a far more sensible choice, he gives his all and puts his body on the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 24/08/2019 at 08:51, KenjiOgiwara said: Well that says it all. Genuinly can't wait for us to replace him. In order to get in to the top 6, we will need to replace him, it’s alright doing it against Rotherham. When asked to do it against a top side like Tottenham, he was nowhere to be seen especially when Eriksen came on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: When he first broke through under Sherwood, he was great, he played left wing, where I’d seen him for the youth and reserve teams. All of a sudden for some reason he gets moved to central midfield and the games passes him by in the Premier League. Of course, it’s a team game, it is NOT the Jack Grealish show. For some unknown reason, he was made captain, Mings would be a far more sensible choice, he gives his all and puts his body on the line From the man who thinks Gary Gardner is a ballon D’or contender How can you be so wrong so often?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: In order to get in to the top 6, we will need to replace him, it’s alright doing it against Rotherham. When asked to do it against a top side like Tottenham, he was nowhere to be seen especially when Eriksen came on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: From the man who thinks Gary Gardner is a ballon D’or contender How can you be so wrong so often?! I only have a soft spot for Gardner because he went to school with someone I love, how do you know I’m a man? Edited August 25, 2019 by sir_gary_cahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rob182 said: I think Elmo created something like 4 or 5 chances that week also. Stats obviously don’t explain everything. If by ‘a little bit more than just a lay-off’, you mean that he dribbled towards the oppositions box, drawing a few opposition players towards him, before picking out a teammate outside the box - I’d agree with you. But again, is the above description that impressive? I’ve seen people waxing lyrical about it. Maybe the word ‘amazing’ wasn’t used (I’ll take your word for it), but it was chalked down as another creative ‘key pass created’, which I think is pretty generous. I mean, it was a key pass and an assist. I don't recall anybody waxing lyrical about it, just people pointing out that it was a good bit of play that ultimately directly led to a goal. I feel like people want to see him dribbling past multiple players and generally being flashy. He's a #8. He plays in the exact same position McGinn does. He's not a winger, or even a #10 anymore. He's still getting used to the step up, but even so as you say, he's still very influential and has been integral to our good start. We're yet to see the best of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: When he first broke through under Sherwood, he was great, he played left wing, where I’d seen him for the youth and reserve teams. All of a sudden for some reason he gets moved to central midfield and the games passes him by in the Premier League. Of course, it’s a team game, it is NOT the Jack Grealish show. For some unknown reason, he was made captain, Mings would be a far more sensible choice, he gives his all and puts his body on the line It wasn't for some unknown reason, Dean Smith was very clear on why he made Jack the captain. Mings had been here for literally 2 months at the time. We then went on to win 10 games in a row and got promoted. What a bizarre thing to say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, dounavilla said: Bring back the combover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said: He was in The Championship but we’re not in The Championship anymore. Now, that we’ve stepped up to the Premier League, he is beginning to be found out in my opinion. He’s not having the same influence on matches like he did last season against lesser opposition. He shouldn’t be captain in my opinion either, it’s not the Jack Grealish show, the captaincy should go to Mings in my opinion Who are you? Where’s the real @sir_gary_cahill 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: In order to get in to the top 6, we will need to replace him, it’s alright doing it against Rotherham. When asked to do it against a top side like Tottenham, he was nowhere to be seen especially when Eriksen came on I actually have hope he can deliver on his talent, but his performances so far has been found lacking. And ultimately we need more from an attacking outlet and playmaker in this 451 Deano wants us to play. What pisses me off is why we can't be honest about this instead of guarding him when he obviously hasn't performed to the standard we need. He might be local, Villa fan, captain and a talented lad who dominated the lower leagues, but now we are moving on and if he wants to be part of it, he needs to step up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I mean, it was a key pass and an assist. I don't recall anybody waxing lyrical about it, just people pointing out that it was a good bit of play that ultimately directly led to a goal. I feel like people want to see him dribbling past multiple players and generally being flashy. He's a #8. He plays in the exact same position McGinn does. He's not a winger, or even a #10 anymore. He's still getting used to the step up, but even so as you say, he's still very influential and has been integral to our good start. We're yet to see the best of him. I feel like we’re largely on the same page, but just to add, I’m not expecting him to dribble past 8 players like Maradona, I just want him to utilise his strengths. His close control and dribbling ability is one of his best assets, and it may just be that it’s too early to judge him yet, but I feel that he has so much more to give. In the Championship when he got into opposition boxes, 50% of the time it felt like he’d try to dribble past players and draw a foul, whereas so far in the Prem, it feels like he wants to release it more often. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, KenjiOgiwara said: I actually have hope he can deliver on his talent, but his performances so far has been found lacking. And ultimately we need more from an attacking outlet and playmaker in this 451 Deano wants us to play. What pisses me off is why we can't be honest about this instead of guarding him when he obviously hasn't performed to the standard we need. He might be local, Villa fan, captain and a talented lad who dominated the lower leagues, but now we are moving on and if he wants to be part of it, he needs to step up. I think you are spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) I don't know about replacing him if we want to get into the top six, as much as we like McGinn, Mings, and the others, Grealish alone is probably the only player we've got that a top six team would actually want to sign. Edited August 25, 2019 by useless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: After the Bournemouth match, he became the first player to lose 20 straight matches in the Premier League. What does that say about the player? It is not the Jack Grealish show, it is a team game That’s not really fair because he is the only player from that relegation team that we have retained, the others were a load of crap and didn’t care about Aston Villa. We lost our first two games this season because we are still settling in. We get a bit of rhythm and understanding - hey presto, a victory. Sod the 20 game loss thing. It means nothing. However, agreed that it is a team game, basics that every footballer learns as a kid. He is surrounded by other very talented footballers now, it might actually take some pressure off him. Edited August 25, 2019 by Tayls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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