bobzy Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Quite literally his only assist is from taking a corner..... What's your point here? Does that cancel out the at least 5 assists/goals from the others? I can see with my eyes that McGinn and Grealish are way, way, way better players than Hourihane. That Hourihane takes a pretty free kick doesn't change this - likewise that he has fewer cards from playing fewer minutes (odd inclusion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: thats the bit i dont get if we were leicester or spurs fans being linked with him for £30m then i could understand us not watching much of him and lazily checking those stats but we watch him every week why are we still judging him based on stats?? i watch him do things every week that no other player in our squad can do, usually its stuff that he makes look real simple like a perfectly weighted ball down the line for adomah, if admoah then crosses and abraham scores and we win the game do i judge jack negatively due to having 0 assists and 0 goals because not necessarily involving adomah and abraham but that scenario has happened at least 3 times this season already off the top of my head I’m not judging him on stats. I moved away last year and so I mainly only see TV games now, but throughout his career he hasn’t scored many goals for an attacking midfielder. I absolutely think that he’s our most talented player and believe he will come good. I think the previous coaching staff haven’t helped his, or any other player’s, development at all and as I’ve said I believe the new guys will bring the best out in him. He absolutely has bundles of talent, but throughout his career the criticism has been that he doesn’t fulfill his potential and doesn’t make his skills effective enough on a regular basis. We all still remember his game at Wembley against Liverpool and that was perhaps the best performance of his career. It was certainly the one when the rest of the football world sat up and took note. But that was over 3 years ago and we now play in a lower division and so it has to be a worry that he hasn’t significantly moved on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, villa4europe said: for those who havent seen the goal or only saw it during the game its subtle and doesnt look like much but watch it again, if hourihane is on the pitch rather than jack that goal doesn't happen, no stat for it but he's played a key part, elmo actually stops moving and then takes a shit touch taking him the wrong way but he'll get a stat which makes everyone happy This does a huge disservice to Elmo, who calls for the pass from Grealish and takes a touch to allow room to hit a cross immediately. It's great play from him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I’m not judging him on stats. I moved away last year and so I mainly only see TV games now, but throughout his career he hasn’t scored many goals for an attacking midfielder. I absolutely think that he’s our most talented player and believe he will come good. I think the previous coaching staff haven’t helped his, or any other player’s, development at all and as I’ve said I believe the new guys will bring the best out in him. He absolutely has bundles of talent, but throughout his career the criticism has been that he doesn’t fulfill his potential and doesn’t make his skills effective enough on a regular basis. We all still remember his game at Wembley against Liverpool and that was perhaps the best performance of his career. It was certainly the one when the rest of the football world sat up and took note. But that was over 3 years ago and we now play in a lower division and so it has to be a worry that he hasn’t significantly moved on. Why are people obsessed over him scoring goals? Bizarre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: Why are people obsessed over him scoring goals? Bizarre. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 40 minutes ago, villa4europe said: thats the bit i dont get if we were leicester or spurs fans being linked with him for £30m then i could understand us not watching much of him and lazily checking those stats but we watch him every week why are we still judging him based on stats?? i watch him do things every week that no other player in our squad can do, usually its stuff that he makes look real simple like a perfectly weighted ball down the line for adomah, if admoah then crosses and abraham scores and we win the game do i judge jack negatively due to having 0 assists and 0 goals because not necessarily involving adomah and abraham but that scenario has happened at least 3 times this season already off the top of my head Yes. Like the oil in an engine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 If there was a stat for assist of an assist, Jack would top the league table by a wide margin I'd imagine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted October 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, jackbauer24 said: Ok, this might be a bit data heavy but let's look at some stats from whoscored.com for our three midfielders. And before some says stats only tell half the story, I've gone to all the home games and watched all the televised away ones so watching him fully has also cemented my belief he needs dropping based on his PERFORMANCES THIS SEASON. Obviously, that's just my opinion... Minutes - Grealish 1112, McGinn 1045, Hourihane 658 Defensive; Tackling - McGinn 2.3, Hourihane 1, Grealish 0.9 Clearances - Hourihane 1, McGinn 0.6, Grealish 0.4 Blocks - McGinn 0.3, Hourihane 0.2, Grealish 0 (McGinn 8pts, Hourihane 7pts, Grealish 3pts if points for positions, 3 for 1st to 1 for third!) Passing; Assists - Hourihane 4, McGinn 3, Grealish 1 Key Passes - Grealish 2, McGinn 1.9, Hourihane 0.8 Pass Success - Grealish 87%, Hourihane 86%, McGinn 81% (Grealish 7pts, Hourihane 6pts, McGinn 5pts) Attacking; Goals - McGinn/Hourihane 1, Grealish 0 Shots - Hourihane/Grealish 2.2, McGinn 1.7 Fouled - Grealish 4.7, McGinn 1.7, Hourihane 0.5 (Grealish 6.5pts, Hourihane 6pts, McGinn 5.5pts) Negative aspects (now flips to worst first!); Dispossessed - Grealish 2.5, McGinn 1.6, Hourihane 0.4 Bad Control - Grealish 1.7, McGinn 1.1, Hourihane 0.6 Cards - McGinn 5, Grealish 4, Hourihane 0 (Hourihane 9pts, McGinn 5pts, Grealish 4pts) (Totals - Hourihane 28pts, McGinn 23.5pts, Grealish 20.5pts - but recognise the dodgy science behind this!!) These paint a fairly clear picture to me. McGinn is head and shoulders above Grealish. Hourihane has played roughly half the time that Grealish has yet his impact on games has been far greater. Grealish's one strength is winning free kicks because he holds on to it for far too long but has good enough feet to win the foul! I'm really not impressed this season and people need to take off their rose tinted glasses and look at what he's really offering. I'm bored of hearing about his potential now - this is our third season in the Championship and he's still not shining. McGinn offers more going forward, Hourihane is more effective and probably balances the midfield better. Grealish needs dropping until he starts actually impacting on games. But this is just my opinion based on what I watch and what the stats seem to back up. Most around me today were very pleased he finally got substituted today. This is madness. You've selected stats and awarded them some random points system so you can criticise him. And you claim you watch games but have awarded extra points for what you decide are negative stats without any context. Do you not think he might lose the ball more because he has the ball more? Takes people on more? Is passed to more? Look at the nba, some good players have higher turnover stats than average players, because they have the ball more, they try and make things happen more than others. You've wasted a lot of time trying to put together a crazy argument Always amazes me how this rubbish appears every so often. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Keyblade said: If there was a stat for assist of an assist, Jack would top the league table by a wide margin I'd imagine. Ahh but who would top the table of an assist of an assist to an assist ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Just now, dounavilla said: Ahh but who would top the table of an assist of an assist to an assist ? Glenn Whelan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keener window-cleaner Posted October 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2018 One example, somewhere in the middle of the first half he made a sublime pass with the outside of his right foot that slicked the left side line and set Adomah free, which then led to a clear cut scoring opportunity for us. There are often no stats for that, but it's such passes only he can make. The opponents know that so it means they double or tripple up on him (no stats for that either), which opens up space for the other players. Even if he doesn't score or assist, he is so valuable for the team. Playing in a mid three he will take more part in the build up play which I think suits him best. It will also mean he will get less chances to score, but will on the whole will be more valuable to the team. The mid three unit of Grealish, BB and McGinn put in, at least for 45-60 mins, the best combined midfield performance I've seen in a long while. Grealish played a direct part in our goal, and I don't know in how many of our chances he played a part in the build up. Moreover he put in a real shift working hard defensively as well together with BB and McGinn, which meant not only that we kept a clean sheet but also that our front three could play higher up the pitch. To criticize him or be disappointed after that performance is not fair imo. He played a big part in one of our best performances (at least for the 45-60 mins) in a long while. We took a first win under Smith in front of a full Villa park, it's happy times and he, one of our own, played a big part in that. UTV! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 I thought he played well today but should have scored with the volley. He needs a goal so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, dounavilla said: Ahh but who would top the table of an assist of an assist to an assist ? Haha! It would require us to put together four passes in a row right, hence the lack of stats over the last years Today we did that several times though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 3 hours ago, bobzy said: What's your point here? Does that cancel out the at least 5 assists/goals from the others? I can see with my eyes that McGinn and Grealish are way, way, way better players than Hourihane. That Hourihane takes a pretty free kick doesn't change this - likewise that he has fewer cards from playing fewer minutes (odd inclusion). My point is you said that Grealish doesn't take any set pieces so can't get assists from those. His only assist this year in pretty much 13 full 90 minute appearances is from taking a corner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Keener window-cleaner said: One example, somewhere in the middle of the first half he made a sublime pass with the outside of his right foot that slicked the left side line and set Adomah free, which then led to a clear cut scoring opportunity for us. There are often no stats for that, but it's such passes only he can make. The opponents know that so it means they double or tripple up on him (no stats for that either), which opens up space for the other players. Even if he doesn't score or assist, he is so valuable for the team. Playing in a mid three he will take more part in the build up play which I think suits him best. It will also mean he will get less chances to score, but will on the whole will be more valuable to the team. The mid three unit of Grealish, BB and McGinn put in, at least for 45-60 mins, the best combined midfield performance I've seen in a long while. Grealish played a direct part in our goal, and I don't know in how many of our chances he played a part in the build up. Moreover he put in a real shift working hard defensively as well together with BB and McGinn, which meant not only that we kept a clean sheet but also that our front three could play higher up the pitch. To criticize him or be disappointed after that performance is not fair imo. He played a big part in one of our best performances (at least for the 45-60 mins) in a long while. We took a first win under Smith in front of a full Villa park, it's happy times and he, one of our own, played a big part in that. UTV! I believe there is a stat for that kind of pass, isn’t it the key pass stat? If I’m correct, last season Grealish was one of the highest in the league let alone just in our squad. Either way, it doesn’t take away the fact that he is our most talented player. But I do agree that McGinn has been our most effective player this year, this is mostly because Bruce has shoehorned Grealish onto the left so we could have McGinn and Hourihane in the same team. I wholeheartedly argue against Hourihane’s general effectiveness in the team. He has a goal in him, which is a great attribute to have, but for the other 89 minutes the game largely passes him by most weeks. But of course, a goal changes a game so it’s whichever way you want to look at it. McGinn appears to be great at both ends of the field so he has to play, but if we can only play one of the other two with him, I know which player my money is on to run the show too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 He had a fine game yesterday, don’t really understand some of the comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 If only he was better at shooting. Massive player for us and played great today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Farlz said: He had a fine game yesterday, don’t really understand some of the comments This. I thought he and McGinn were the difference for us today. Made things happen every time he got the ball and I am certain he will flourish under Deano. He absolutley should have scored. Yes he is pants at finishing but tbf if he could finish he’d have left us several seasons ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted October 21, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2018 Thought he played really well yesterday. Needs to start sticking it in the net though if he wants to play at a higher level. I find it utterly bemusing how composed Grealish is with his whole game other than when in front of goal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 21, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 21, 2018 What’s frustrating is that we know how good some of his finishing can be, he’s scored some pearlers for us. It’ll come. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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